Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:50 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 7:50 am linkquote
Well, here we go. If you've been reading MV lately, you'll know I've had a coolant leak. Yesterday got the scooter jacked up enough to actually peer into the bowels of the beast and it's pretty clear that the fluid is seeping from the area of the head gasket. That IS the junction between silver and black on the engine, right? Have seen some comments on base gaskets, but haven't taken the pains to figure out where that one is....

Anyway, as intrepid MV readers will recall, I had cappuccino oil just two years ago, with a new water pump solving that issue. Encouragement by some of you here got me into that, and seeing as how it turned out well, I still consider you my friends, lol. For anyone who wants the risk this time, please feel free to chime in.

As a bonus on this journey, I also got a better view of the bottom of the body and it looks like I've got some rust to clean up.....aaand, my noisy transmission is still, uh, noisy. I'm betting on something funky with the clutch, so there's yet another bonus.

If this warm weather holds, I have a chance of at least getting things apart soon.

So, for starters, I have MV, and Robot's videos for encouragement. I was thinking about procuring a new gasket and was wondering about any other sundries I'd need, but probably best to take a look at the disassembled pieces before jumping the gun. Who knows what lurks in there.

Show is expected to start this weekend. Woo-hoo!

As for procuring supplies, and inspired by Mopmop, I did a mental inventory of my beer supply....
Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:17 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:17 am linkquote
Oh, and while y'all are waiting for the excitement, a couple of details and questions to ponder.

For starters, it's a 2015, with 18K miles. It's run low on oil several times, due to dipstick failure (the dipstick would be me not tightening it down adequately). It's run fine for several thousands of miles since, but just about the time I discovered the coolant, I was a bit surprised to see low oil in the sump...but then again I may have let more time go by between checks than usual....).

So, with that in mind, is there anything I can/should check/consider replacing while it's apart?
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:19 am

Addicted
2012 Genuine Stella 150 4T "Penultimate"
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 932
Location: Texas
 
Addicted
2012 Genuine Stella 150 4T "Penultimate"
Joined: 15 Jan 2019
Posts: 932
Location: Texas
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:19 am linkquote
The base gasket is between the silver and black parts. It's a common source of leakage. I had one fail on my GT200. It's not THAT hard to change, if you're handy.

I pulled my engine to have more working room, but people have discussed hacks for leaving the engine in.

Might as well get a head gasket and stud o-rings while you're at it.

Good luck.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:48 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:48 am linkquote
25BIKEZ wrote:
The base gasket is between the silver and black parts.
Good luck.
Uh-oh. I'd thought that was the head gasket. Obviously need to brush up on Vespa engine anatomy. That's what looks like is leaking at any rate.

IIRC stud breakage isn't uncommon and replacement recommended, or am I wrong?
Edit: According to Robot, good to go with originals, at least in most cases. Anything to look for as problematic?

Thanks! It's going to be a bit of an adventure regardless....
Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:32 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7750
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7750
Location: NWAOK
Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:32 pm linkquote
The best approach is a complete top end gasket kit, which contains the head gasket and the base gasket, as well as all the other gaskets you are going to replace.
If you decide to go the separates route, the base gasket comes in three thicknesses. .04, .06 and .08mm. .06 is the most commonly used. A timing chain tensioner gasket is something you will replace as well.

This has everything you will need, and some parts you probably won't use, like the valve seals, unless you want to reseat the valves while you are in there.

https://scooterpartsco.com/vespa/gts-250/gts-250-engine/cylinder-gasket-and-seal-set-for-vespa-piaggio-aprilia-250

Or you can get the three gaskets and four o-rings you will definitely want to replace. These are the gaskets Malossi puts in it's cylinder kits for the liquid cooled Vespa 200-300 engines:

https://scooterpartsco.com/vespa/gts-250/gts-250-engine/cylinder-base-gasket-0-6mm
https://scooterpartsco.com/vespa/gts-250/gts-250-engine/head-gasket-for-piaggio-vespa-aprilia-200-250
https://scooterpartsco.com/vespa/gts-250/gts-250-engine/timing-chain-gasket-for-vespa-piaggio-aprilia
https://scooterpartsco.com/vespa/gts-250/gts-250-engine/o-rings-for-cylinder-head-6x11-478184-set-of-4
Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:35 pm

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41616
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41616
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:35 pm linkquote
The head gasket is at the top (nearer the front of the Vespa) of the black bit (cylinder), the base gasket is at the bottom (towards the rear, nearest to the crankshaft).

Unlikely to be the base gasket - so do not disturb if you don't have to.

Do buy a supply of *good* hose clamps. Ones like these: https://dupageproducts.com/portfolio/metric-smooth-band-hose-clamps/ that are pressed rather than slotted, and have curled up edges.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:13 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:13 pm linkquote
jimc wrote:
The head gasket is at the top (nearer the front of the Vespa) of the black bit (cylinder), the base gasket is at the bottom (towards the rear, nearest to the crankshaft).

Unlikely to be the base gasket - so do not disturb if you don't have to.

Do buy a supply of *good* hose clamps.
Thanks Jim, I'll get it up on my 2x4 again and take another look before I dig in. I guess I don't need it to rain on me again, but just in case....I'd wanted to take a shot with my phone, but there was barely enough room for me!

I've got a box of hose clamps, so good to go there.

Thanks, Motovista for the gasket info. I'd already had some stuff in the cart before this happened.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:23 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Wed Nov 02, 2022 4:23 pm linkquote
Good luck with that gasket.

Just remember, if your new scooter is the same colour as the old one the Mrs probably won't be able to tell.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:54 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:54 pm linkquote
znomit wrote:
Just remember, if your new scooter is the same colour as the old one the Mrs probably won't be able to tell.
Genius!

At least I have something to fall back on if things go south.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:55 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:55 pm linkquote
Just finished the 17 minute Scooterwest video on removing the engine.

Translated into fledermaus time, I'm giving it a good two hours, maybe 3.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:58 pm

Ossessionato
Medley 150
Joined: 02 Jul 2016
Posts: 2155
Location: Adelaide
 
Ossessionato
Medley 150
Joined: 02 Jul 2016
Posts: 2155
Location: Adelaide
Wed Nov 02, 2022 5:58 pm linkquote
znomit wrote:
Good luck with that gasket.

Just remember, if your new scooter is the same colour as the old one the Mrs probably won't be able to tell.
... questions will be asked by the Finance Dept about the hole in the bank account..
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:01 pm

Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i
Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 351
Location: Dahlonega, GA
 
Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i
Joined: 03 Mar 2020
Posts: 351
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:01 pm linkquote
What everyone else has said plus:

If it was otherwise running fine, then a gasket job is in order. If you are going for a base gasket, then a new wrist pin retainer might be in order. If you are doing the base gasket, you should definitely use new engine studs. When I did my rebuild, I had it all together, and one of the studs twisted and snapped long before it reached torque. I had to buy a new gasket set/orings and tear it down and rebuild it again.

Keep everything spotless as you build, wear nitrile gloves and change them often. Put build lube on the stuff that needs it. Use 409/isopropyl alcohol/acetone to clean everything, and keep it as clean as possible while you build. Don't contaminate you gaskets or surfaces.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:01 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:01 pm linkquote
Motovista wrote:
This has everything you will need, and some parts you probably won't use, like the valve seals, unless you want to reseat the valves while you are in there.

https://scooterpartsco.com/vespa/gts-250/gts-250-engine/cylinder-gasket-and-seal-set-for-vespa-piaggio-aprilia-250

George, I think the link you sent is for a 250, so don't I want the #497545 for the 300?
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:10 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 8607
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:10 pm linkquote
Sledge wrote:
... questions will be asked by the Finance Dept about the hole in the bank account..
The gasket just makes the inevitable hole a little larger.
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:21 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:21 pm linkquote
fledermaus wrote:
Just finished the 17 minute Scooterwest video on removing the engine.

Translated into fledermaus time, I'm giving it a good two hours, maybe 3.
first time pulling a motor for somebody that has a moderate amount of mechanical ability two hours is totally reasonable. you're going to spend a full 30min figuring out the juggling act of how far you need the body up in the air and how to stabilize it while wheeling the motor out.

plan on lots of room and work clean and you should be good to go. honestly, it's not much more work than doing a water pump.

good luck!
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:22 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7750
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: 04 Feb 2013
Posts: 7750
Location: NWAOK
Wed Nov 02, 2022 6:22 pm linkquote
fledermaus wrote:
George, I think the link you sent is for a 250, so don't I want the #497545 for the 300?
Yes. i don't know why I was thinking about a 250. if you want to get the individual gaskets, the head gasket would have to be for a 300 too.
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:09 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sat Nov 05, 2022 5:09 pm linkquote
Okay, it's started! First order of business was to clear out my space...I hadn't really cleaned up my workspace for years, so decided that should go first or I'd be frustrated. Took the morning....

So, started going down my list, ticking off items on the list...I'd been down that road before, so pretty routine. Things got interesting with removing the exhaust at the manifold....actually not so bad getting the nuts off, but Robot's video didn't mention the sensor, (or I got distracted ). I couldn't clearly trace the wire and was thinking of removing the sensor, but didn't have the right wrench. So, when all else fails, read the directions.....I'd neglected to review the service manual, which got me through by telling me I didn't have to remove it after all. What was the most time-consuming and frustrating was cutting the zip tie holding the wire in place. So got the exhaust out, the swingarm and wheel off, and decided to call it a day. I've got tomorrow to finish pulling the motor, so off to uncharted territory!

Haven't decided if I want to do head and base gaskets or just the head gasket. Obviously easiest to do just the one, but doing both leaves no stone unturned, and hopefully no regrets. In researching the project I came back on theschuman's earlier adventure that went wrong, so that wasn't too reassuring.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:32 am

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:32 am linkquote
I haven't watched the SW video but here's a few tips:

if you have the space and the ability, pull the motor. it makes this so, so much easier.

100% take off the seat. otherwise you're just fighting with it or it's in the way all the time.

undo the clamps holding the brake line and pull the rear brake caliper and just flop it up on the floor board or under the bike toward the front out of the way. then put the wheel back on and just finger tight the bolts up. that way you can wheel the motor around and it'll be stable on the center stand so you can work without it all flopping around.

remove the rear fender and fairings if you haven't already. same with crash bars.

pull the evap line off the intake or you'll forget when you've got the motor loose and you're balancing the body and wrestling the motor wondering why it's hung up.

I like to pull the ECU and wire it up and out of the way, that way I don't have to discount the throttle cable(s). if you DO disconnect the throttle cable(s) and there's two, MARK them with a piece of tape, top and bottom. then make a note or take a picture. because you will forget. I like to hang all the engine wiring with the ECU, just bundle it up.

I pop the fuel lines off and wire them back up and out of the way as well.

yank off the air filter, it will provide better clearance for getting the motor out. this isn't 100% necessary, but it does help. it'll be loose anyway because you have to remove the shock.

pull the shocks from the bottom and just let them chill out. you can swing them up and maneuver the motor in and out with them in place at the top.

I always do an oil change when I do top end work. you can drain the oil before pulling the motor or after, I prefer before and then fill when I'm done.

if I'm just doing a head gasket I won't mess with the base gasket unless it's leaking or it looks suspect.

other than that, work clean. keep the area tidy. make sure that the gasket surfaces are clean and free of any nicks and scrapes. use a torque wrench for the head nuts.

right now would be a great time to replace your silent block if it's needed, so have a look see at that while you're there.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:41 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:41 am linkquote
Thanks for the input greasy!

I passed a couple of those marks already, but doesn't hurt. I'm at the intake manifold at the present....Robot says use a 1/4 inch wobble, though I'm not sure that's necessary, especially with the injector unclipped.

I have to be the master of second guesses. After removing the coolant hose from the thermostat, I'm asking myself if I could have overlooked a leak there, tried to reproduce a leak with a turkey baster and water and it's a pretty similar pattern. I'd swear I checked from above and it was dry, but it's not an easily viewable area. The single use clamp was replaced a while ago. Of course now I'm far enough along that I can't go back and check. I'm guessing it's more likely for a gasket to fail than a good hose clamp? At any rate, I think it's best to keep moving forward.....

Anyway, couple of questions.... you'd mentioned looking at the silent block, but I'm not sure what to look for for clues that it's going...so any input there is welcome.

Also, thinking about the hoses...scooter's 7 years old or so, and rubber doing what rubber does over time, I've already wondered about how concerned I should be about replacing....obviously it's a great time for those that are more easily accessible now. OTOH, if they look good on inspection, is that overkill?

Last edited by fledermaus on Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:36 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 06, 2022 12:36 pm linkquote
Any thoughts on getting the coolant temperature sensor to let go. I've got to have some pretty good grip strength, but that thing is tight!
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:12 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:12 pm linkquote
fledermaus wrote:
Any thoughts on getting the coolant temperature sensor to let go. I've got to have some pretty good grip strength, but that thing is tight!
it clips in! pull the sleeve up and use a tiny screwdriver to slightly lever it and release.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:19 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Nov 06, 2022 1:19 pm linkquote
re: the hoses, they generally last a very long time. generally I've only seen them damaged by crash bar hardware or in the case of the LH one, it can rub on the body where it enters the frame up under the footboard. you can visually inspect it to be sure.

re: intake, I'm not sure what you're talking about. but I will say that I use a short 8mm on a universal joint with a 6" extension driven by a wobble head 1/4" ratchet for nearly everything. but removing the intake shouldn't be necessary for removing the motor. you can get after that once it's out.

silent block: visual inspection. just look at it. is it worn and degrading? is it torn? if it looks good then move along.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:47 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 06, 2022 3:47 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
it clips in! pull the sleeve up and use a tiny screwdriver to slightly lever it and release.
Ah, got it! Finally...after going after it several times finding better things to do in between, it turned out easy peasy. This learning curve crap..... My newly purchased inspection mirror came in handy.

Thanks for the sage advice on the hoses. I did have on chafed by my crash bar mount a while back and out of an abundance of caution replaced it....though after having it off it looked better than on. So I'll plan on bypassing them this time around.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:17 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:17 pm linkquote
So, barring any unforseen snags, the engine should be popping out tomorrow night. So far it's been reasonably straight forward. I'm getting pretty familiar with Vespa anatomy, which isn't a bad thing....if something fails, I should have an easier time looking for it.

One question for those who've done it before..is how heavy exactly is this beast? I don't have a gang of beer-swilling accomplices milling around. I know the GTS runs around 350 pounds, but just how much of it is engine and transmission? In lieu of hoisting it up to the workbench I could slide/roll it onto a makeshift table, but prefer the former.....

I think I've organized well enough, and have references, but I know how this is going to go....I think I'll remember where every screw and zip tie was when I first met them. but in a week or so (optimistic, I am ) I can see myself holding some random cable totally flummoxed about where it came from and how to get it back. I hope I'm not the only one with that problem.....

Not my best day, but in an attempt to have some tangible accomplishment, I did do a thorough cleaning of the espresso machine. And not entirely disappointed with progress on the scooter....
Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:58 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Nov 06, 2022 7:58 pm linkquote
without a wheel, rotor/hub, swing arm and exhaust I'd guess and say that the whole assembly weighs 60~70lbs or so?

like, you're not gonna lift it over your head but you can certainly muscle it up onto a bench.

I kinda cheat in that I just leave it on my lift and work on it there.

but you could pop off the wheel and hub, heave it onto a bench or table and then snap that back on all finger tight jimmy and be in business with it stable.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:59 pm

Ossessionato
Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300x2 sold 'em
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 2325
Location: St. Pete, Fla
 
Ossessionato
Vespa LX150 GTS250ie GTS300x2 sold 'em
Joined: 11 Dec 2009
Posts: 2325
Location: St. Pete, Fla
Sun Nov 06, 2022 8:59 pm linkquote
You can do this. I did. On the ground I just roll it around on the wheel and the work there. I did call for help pulling it out but was not necessary. Put it back by myself.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:20 pm

Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1969
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
 
Molto Verboso
GTS 300ie Touring 2013 - Signora D'argento & GTS 300ie HPE 2022 - Regina Arancione.
Joined: 03 Jun 2018
Posts: 1969
Location: Lancaster, U.K.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 9:20 pm linkquote
fledermaus wrote:
Not my best day, but in an attempt to have some tangible accomplishment, I did do a thorough cleaning of the espresso machine. And not entirely disappointed with progress on the scooter....
Small gains is the way to go. I presume cleaning the espresso machine is in anticipation of the regular breaks you'll be taking when things aren't going entirely to plan?

Taking plenty of pictures is a good idea for making sure everything goes back as it should, the downside is you'll end up with oil and crud all over your phone in the process.

Good luck with everything, I see you have a good tutor to keep you on the straight & narrow.
Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:10 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Sun Nov 06, 2022 11:10 pm linkquote
your supplies list for once you get the motor out and start teardown:

blue shop rags for final cleaning
gross muck rags to toss out for heavy cleaning
brake clean (probably just a can or two)
a paint pen or a good permanent marker
red & blue loc-tite
green scotch brite pads
heavy grease (for keeping o-rings in place)
coffee
beer
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:48 am

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41616
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 41616
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:48 am linkquote
I leave the wheel off, and knock up a support from scrap wood that holds up the axle when it's on the bench. This keeps it plenty stable enough to work on the head, and is not too heavy to man-handle around.
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:02 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:02 am linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
your supplies list for once you get the motor out and start teardown:


Thanks for that list! I did something right...I was out at the store and decided to bolster my supply of Brakleen without being sure I'd actually need it. Makes up slightly for fighting with that connector...which would have been easier if I'd have actually listened to Robot's words in the first place.

Coffee and beer supplies are abundant. Coffee will be to sharpen my wits at the beginning, beer is to avoid needing counselling for anxiety/remorse etc later in the day.

Appreciate the input on handling the engine. I imagined myself holding some 200 pound monster that I could only lower to the floor in defeat. I might be old, but I can handle 70+ pounds. Just don't tell my wife.

Touring- Yes, pictures. Unfortunately, from the past, I go back to my photos and it's "what the #$&% am I looking at??" I did get the inspiration to tape the cables/tubes that need to be re-zip-tied though....
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:52 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:52 am linkquote
So, my working metaphor is feeling like I'm doing heart surgery here....

....or, delivering a baby. Edit: Got the right clip this time!


Last edited by fledermaus on Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:47 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 07, 2022 6:47 pm linkquote
IT'S A BOY! [passes a virtual 6-pack around to greasy and the rest of the gang watching here...]

Couldn't let the final step wait until tomorrow. A bit of jostling and wiggling not sure exactly how it needed to be supported when grabbing it. It's resting comfortably on the workbench now.

I didn't study up on the next step, but should be easier with access to fasteners and comfortable height...

So, a question. Will it be apparent once the gasket is exposed that there's been a leak? Just glancing around the engine, its not really clear if there's anything that can be seen... and of greater concern is how to determine if I should consider messing with the base gasket. Maybe it will be clearer tomorrow, but if anyone has any input....

Have some spare time tomorrow, so back at it!


In all its glory



Last edited by fledermaus on Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:24 pm

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 12200
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:24 pm linkquote
that's a shock bushing. it goes into the lower eye of the shock on the airbox side. there's two one for each side of the shock.

get a close up of the base where it meets the motor case. there and at the 9 o'clock position is where they like to leak.

when you get ready to tear down pull off the transmission cover. that way you can turn the motor over with the crank nut to find TDC and confirm it with the marks on the flywheel and water pump housing as well with the valve timing mark at the head.

then mark the crown wheel (sprocket) and chain in two places with the paint pen. use the brake clean to hose everything off and the blue towels to clean.

TWO PLACES. a stripe across the chain and onto the crown wheel.

this will ensure that you don't get the valve timing off when you go to reassemble and make everything a breeze going back together.
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:29 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:29 pm linkquote
greasy125 wrote:
that's a shock bushing. it goes into the lower eye of the shock on the airbox side. there's two one for each side of the shock.

Just figured that out....was looking at a video when it came up.

Thanks for the rest....it'll give me a good start tomorrow!
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:36 pm

Member
2012 GTV300, 2007 GTS250
Joined: 26 Aug 2021
Posts: 33
Location: Madison WI
 
Member
2012 GTV300, 2007 GTS250
Joined: 26 Aug 2021
Posts: 33
Location: Madison WI
Mon Nov 07, 2022 7:36 pm linkquote
In my experience, an exposed gasket won't reveal anything about where it was leaking. It's best to pinpoint the leak prior to disassembly.

The part that fell out looks like a bushing from the left side lower shock mount - there should be two of them. Check the shock for the other one.

Edit: I guess we were posting at the same time re: the bushing.
Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:49 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Nov 08, 2022 8:49 am linkquote
From my initial inspection (watching it leak)-FWIW seemed most of the fluid was accumulating around the exhaust port- and dry inspection on the bench, I'm going with just the head gasket. Guess it helps I'm hovering around my peak comfort level as well....

Didn't get parts yet as I thought I'd wait to see what I found and decided to do at this point, so a bit slow for a few days.....also need to pick up a paint pen and maybe indulge in a few more bits for the toolkit.
Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:38 am

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Nov 08, 2022 10:38 am linkquote
Okay, please tell me I didn't bollox anything up. I made my marks on the chain and wheel, and somewhere in there started loosening the cam tensioner, removing both center bolt and bolts on the side. I'd wanted to take a look at the valve lash, and rotated the drive shaft at the variator but noticed a lot more resistance. Also noticed that after some revolutions my marks no longer aligned. Loosening the tensioner made it easy to turn the engine over by hand again.

Soo...is it normal for the chain to change position like that? Why should tightening up the cam tensioner after loosening make it hard to turn? Hoping that it will all be okay on reassembly, but seems a good time to worry a bit....

Edit: Think I figured out the tension part...tensioner must have ratcheted downward somehow so when other bolts retightened, cam chain was overtightened as well. At least that makes sense to me.
Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:40 pm

Member
2012 GTV300, 2007 GTS250
Joined: 26 Aug 2021
Posts: 33
Location: Madison WI
 
Member
2012 GTV300, 2007 GTS250
Joined: 26 Aug 2021
Posts: 33
Location: Madison WI
Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:40 pm linkquote
As you rotate the engine, the marks you made on the cam chain will only match the marks you made on the gear once over several rotations. Before you remove the head, and when reinstalling, just make sure the 4V timing mark on the cam gear aligns with the mark on the head, and the timing mark on the alternator rotor aligns with its timing mark. If those two marks are aligned the motor is TDC, no matter where your chain marks ended up. You do have a service manual, right?
Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:43 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:43 pm linkquote
kmev wrote:
As you rotate the engine, the marks you made on the cam chain will only match the marks you made on the gear once over several rotations. Before you remove the head, and when reinstalling, just make sure the 4V timing mark on the cam gear aligns with the mark on the head, and the timing mark on the alternator rotor aligns with its timing mark. If those two marks are aligned the motor is TDC, no matter where your chain marks ended up. You do have a service manual, right?
Thanks for that! Yes, I did some rotations and noticed the marks changed relative to each other. But you know, its not a real project without something to worry about.

I do have a service manual....downloaded here. A bit of juggling between watching Robot's videos and the manual. Even then my brain skips some detail....
Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:45 pm

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: 13 Sep 2012
Posts: 11005
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Tue Nov 08, 2022 1:45 pm linkquote
I noticed a bit of galling mostly on one of the camshaft lobes, nothing on the actual cams. On a video, Robot suggested replacement but seemed less than adamant. Any thoughts? I'll get a photo here if that helps...though probably hard to see what's easier to feel...
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