Modern Vespa

1A024372

About use the same ECU and injector? Any idea? Yo are putting bad ideas in my mind ha ha ha

the OEM 530 uses another ecu / throttle body
But your 500 Throttle body will learn to give more fuel

you have to wait till may 2023 to recive one tho

Just ordered 5 in italy

In some places this can be considered torture Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha give a candy and after that says that need to wait 1/2 year for it 🙃

cool. thanks for sharing.

did your cylinders come in? how do they look?

yes in are 2mm wider so need to widen the crankcase opening

Hi Maksor, in addition to this, any other changes that are required? Is possible / make sense use the 500 valve head directly? How does the computer and the injector behave with the change? And most important part, do you feel any real gain with the change after investing > €400 (torque / HP)?

I'm thinking to do it in my 2022 500 HPE if is a WOW factor and I can feel that the reliability justify it ha ha ha ha

Thanks for your comments and contributions, regards

everything else will fit just the crankcase needs to have a bigger opening

Thanks for you answer. The WOW factor is in place? Can you feel a real improvement vs a regular 493cc cylinder? In other words, more that a "nice" change, is a good invested money?

High time for a reality check. There is no WOW in any single thumper engine. Does not matter the size or who makes it. They are 99% about utility i.e. getting someone from A to B, although Piaggio would still like us to believe that hpe means "High Performance Engine".

Yeah right, more like Hyped Pensioner Engine. If they want to be taken seriously, ditch the 20 year old engine design that's been given as many makeovers as Joan Rivers received plastic surgeries and design something from the ground up with a twin like the Kymco 550 or Yamaha T-Max 5xx and then we can start having a real conversation.

Real motorcycling begins with 2 pistons and climax is achieved with 6 pistons.

if you have a good running engine it wouldnt be worth adding 37cc

mow if you have a 400...nice upsize

"Real motorcycling begins with 2 pistons and climax is achieved with 6 pistons. "

Mawhh the first motorcycle engines where a 1 cilinder

And what about the bigbore's 650 800 1 cilinders

Ride a twin that is in about the same size class as a MP3 and was made during the same period and compare.

Example: A Suzuki Burgman 650. Bigger engine, bigger tank, electric windscreen, some manual control over the CVT, Japanese reliability, etc, etc, etc.

Or better yet, any Yamaha T-Max 5xx generation ever made but specifically the 500 just to compare in the exact same engine size class

Or my fav the Honda NSS750 aka Forza 750. DCT transmission, lots of low end torque, easy as cupcake maintenance and easy on the wallet

Try riding any of those and then honestly come back and say that the Piaggio "High Performance Engine" is still your weapon of choice.

The hpe hype Piaggio pushes is nothing more than just another warmed over retune of the same 20 year old tech just to keep that engine saleable with the constant changing emission standards

well got a v twin and a Triumph rider will say 3 is enough i say its not running on all 4

I own a burgman 650. silverwing 600. piaggio mp3 500, and a yamaha majesty 400. I consider all of them amazing machines. I would say they all get equal ride time. if their was a soldier lacking he would be on the sidelines more often. while the twins are nice engines they dont necessarily outperform the single cylinder thumpers. all four bikes are using the same titanium muffler. sound wise the thumpers are amazing. way cooler sound with larger spaces between puffs. you can stand 15 feet behind one of my thumpers and feel the pulses on you body. I look at the 20 year old designs as being tweaked to perfection. not a bad thing. but a good thing if you ask me. the Italian built products are a few steps behind honda/yamaha/suzuki in the quality department. but are a step ahead when it comes to twisting the throttle. they know how to best put a smile on your face. they have the largest bang for the buck.

in short. dont let anyone talk you out of springing an mp3. I love mine amongst a tough crowd.

I still thoroughly enjoy my MP3 500, if for totally different reasons than my Honda NC750X DCT or BMW R1100S (which I love, but now has become an expensive hobby).

The MP3 500 is just so eminently every-day practical, and let's admit it is always more fun to ride a motorcycle than drive a car. My views may be influenced by the fact that I am a single household, and hence my everyday shopping fits great into the MP3 500. And I shall also admit that *because* the MP3 500 isn't an edgy motorcycle, when I use it for urban duties (which for me is most of the time), I don't feel I need to wrap myself in full leathers and wear my full-face Arai - you can go places wearing regular clothing... basically like people ride Vespas all over Europe in cities.

The powertrain is indeed a tad agricultural, but with an Akra exhaust it actually sounds the business. I went through 2 rear tires within 8k miles until I started to use my right wrist more judiciously, plus the belt also wears out and is on its last legs every 6k miles if you always slam the throttle off the line. Mabe that's because I am 6'2 and 225lbs.

On the MP3, I have changed my style to basically ride it to go along with cars. Also, here in CA now there is a criminal tendency to run red lights among car and SUV drivers, and after a major scare last year, I decided the old ways of weaving your way to the front on a red light and then get away as fast as you can may be hazardous... I'd rather let the cagers in front take the chance...

This just to say - the MP3 isn't and doesn't pretend to be a sports bike, and I didn't get it to replace my other bike, I got it to avoid driving my main car when that seemed the more "practical" choice. But I understand everybody has different priorities and goals.

I need to agree heavily with the last 3 posts, everyone enjoys and uses their toys in their own way.

I have been riding motorcycles for close to 44 years, I have done motocross, trial, raced on the track, etc. My MP3 is one from a garage of 7 totally different motorcycles (ranging from a classic Moto Guzzi Hidroconvert from 76, through a Triumph Scrambler, a Ducati Monster with a Multistrada engine, a HD Sportster heavily modded, a Honda Monkey, etc.), but I really like how practical the MP3 is.

But I must say, that does not prevent me from always wanting something more, that if I ask she for more fun at some point, she have how to give me, for that reason I modify, and I try to squeeze as much as possible. Is something as have a Porsche, you can drive relaxed most of the time, but if you like/need you have from where take the extra , but this does not imply that you should go 250km/h all day every day.

Let's also note that no one ever called the original single cylinder KTM Duke 620cc "boring" (gosh was it 1995?)... in fact it was way fun and insane I know because it was the last time I broke a bone on a motorcycle And the 1290 Duke I owned afterwards was way too much for me, even though I have ridden bikes for over 40 years. I just don't like THAT much electronic help to prevent me from braining myself...

I think we're getting way off topic. Somebody asked about the "wow factor".

Let the numbers speak for themselves.

A 3 wheel biked powered by a single thumper medium to low displacement engine that's pushing near 300kg. Ok, so they added a couple ponies (still around 45 hp) and brought the peak torque back down to just over 5K rpm.

Do those numbers say "wow factor"???

The numbers don't seem to indicate so.

A Vespa GTS will blow the MP3 500 out of the water every day of the year.

my mp3 500 smokes my gts300. both bikes modded exact same way. its not even a close race. the vespa is just as enjoyable to ride and far more nimble. the 500 with 18g sliders and a fuzzy washer is an absolute screamer. I am even up to about 50mph then my freinds modded tmax 500 (+10whp dynotuned) will creep away from me.

pic sharing

Maksor I have 2 extra questions for you based on your experience and the part numbers I see in the online catalog for the 530:

1. What cylinder group you recommend, as I see exist the same part number but different letter, 1A0243710n where n can be A, B, C or D?

2. What cylinder gasket (cylinder joint) do you recommend? I see that exist 0.8, 0.6 and 0.4 options. I imagine the static compression is modified here, since gasoline is not the best here in my country, would it be 0.6 or 0.8? I'm not sure

I'm thinking seriously to do this change as a extra to the others changes I'm doing now

Thanks a lot

Complete cylinder code is 1A024372. The A, B, C, D codes refer only to pistons when you already have a same letter cylinder...

For the correct gasket you must measure the cylinder / piston related to crankcases / conrod so as to achieve the desired compression ratio...

2
gasket depent's on your engine and compression you want just used a 0.4 for more torque on a 400 crankcase with a HPE 500 cylinder the head gasket are all the same thickness normaly i wil use 0.6 and .8 will give a little bit more top

1 Cylinders use Numbers here 1 2 3 4 pistons use letters a b c d or starting with K or a S depents on manufactor

1+ A is the right fitting 3+a can fit but also could be to tight or to small so it wil use oil

I think I should have formulated my questions better, sorry.

1. Kit 1A024372 can come with any of those cylinders, correct? Then for a future replacement if broken, I will have to see what it is and buy the same one.

2. The gaskets that I refer are the CM32370n (n can be 1, 2 or 3, that is 0.8mm, 0.6mm or 0.4mm). Does this also come in kit 1A024372 or do I have to buy it? What I'm not sure is if I should buy a 0.6 or 0.8 mm if don't come in the kit... #8 in this link:
https://www.parts-piaggio.com/piaggio-scooters/530-PIAGGIO-SCOOTER/MP3/2022/MP3-530-HPE-RST-Exclusive-E5/ENGINE/Cylinder-piston-wrist-pin-unit/3257/22/9052/3275

Thanks again for the help

1. Correct, cylinder kit will come in any grade along with the same piston (numbers are punched on cylinder and piston). Grades have to do with tolerances during machining...

2. Gaskets come separately from cylinder kit. Correct procedure is to measure for the necessary thickness or go to 0.6mm for something safe-ish...

Hello to all fans.

I decided to make the purchase to take my 500 to 530, but it seems that the part number changed, from 1A024372 to 1A024944. Maksor, is possible you with your contacts and knowledge confirm this?

Correct…

So, with all pieces in hands, process started

So I like to share some advances and finds after start the conversion.

After open the engine and remove the old cylinder my first is what the ones I removed look like (see attached pictures), with only 1000 km I don't expect this state, they don't look like 1000 km, but 15000 km, no idea why, but as the engine is opened I try to look for the reason. If someone have any idea and can share, are very appreciated.

Another is the difference in the weight between the 493 and the 530 cylinder. The 493 weight more that twice the 530 (see pictures). So it looks as the materials for the 530 are more modern/better and maybe better heat exchange.

Now after I open I realize that I order cylinder kit and the cylinder gasket, but I completely forgot to order the gasket between the cylinder and the valves, which logically being a wider cylinder is different, so I ordered it in Spain and I have to wait about 2 weeks to have it in my hands (Monday arrive Spain, then need to send to my country) meanwhile I will expand the space to so that the new cylinder can enter the crankcase.

The story continue...

the 530 cylinder must be aluminum, 493 cast iron. alloy cools better and this explains the higher cost as alloy requires cast sleeve or nikasil coating.

the deposits look like you are using the cheapest gas in town. higher octane burns cleaner. but gas quality can vary within same octane.

the 530 piston is lighter because the 530 engine also got a longer crank shaft stroke. piston made shorter to clear crank rotation. (incorrect, corrected below)

It looks as have nikasil, and yes the 493 is cast iron Unfortunately I don't have any alternatives here, only one type (of dubious quality and origin), I always add boostane to help for the adjust time, I wouldn't think the deposit would be that much The 530 have a wider piston not stroke difference, here the specs of 493 vs 530 in bore and stroke:
- 493: 94 x 71 mm
- 530: 97.5 x 71 mm

Thanks for the comments

any update?

Not jet

The holidays worked against me, the gasket arrived very late from Spain (around December 19) and and workbenches in the workshop were full of other customers motorcycles.

With some luck, I hope to have it ready and running by the end of the month... it's hard for me to hold back, I already want to try it with all the changes in addition to the cylinder.

I will surely keep the forum informed

Some updates that delay the project end again

Today we think that we can close the engine and install in the scooter, but not.

After we modified the crankcase, so that the new cylinder could fit in, all looks beautiful... but something caught our attention when assembling, something is not right the timing chain looks short and the piston in the most upper stage have some like 5mm remaining to come to the end of the cylinder, there is not enough compression, it cannot be that! it's very low! so we stop to analyze what is happening (I'm adding some images).

So again remove cylinder from the crankcase and compare. They both have the same height, what's wrong? STOP, the bottom part is different , here is the difference.

I think that the 530 crankcase have a slight extra negative space so the cylinder goes down more

I don't expect this at all

The main idea now, as is a not return process the change in the crankcase, is to mill the upper part of the 530 cylinder until the required measurement is obtained in the piston upper position (reduce it by about 4-5 mm, tomorrow I will take the exact measurements so I can take the piece to the turning shop). After the piece return I think I can archive the correct measures and solve the chain length and the distance between the piston and the cylinder head.

After making the height change we will probably have to modify the notches of the Chain Tensioner Rod a little, since they are going to be high, but that is a minor change.

But since we are with the magnifying glass, let's check again, what else could not be the same or fail? and we found that the chain tensioner is not the same , it is possible to make a flange as the bolt pattern is the same, but we are going to do things right and order the 530 tensioner, so that it looks like everything came out of the factory like this...

Here some images to help illustrate the words, and to say, the adaptation of the 530 cylinder in a 500 is not a straight forward change as I expected as I start...

Maybe the 530 has a longer conrod??

I think this at first but don't have a way to check...

But yes, after a lot of check the better way to adapt nothing convince me for a reliable and safe change, so I decide to purchase the 530 crankshaft (the rod can't be purchase separated ) and a longer timing chain and since I was already at it (shopping time) I decide to change the valves for the 530 ones (in case needs to breath better) and the valve springs and longest cylinder studs, all from the 530.

I expect receive all in maybe 2-3 weeks and start again, finger crossed I don't need any more and can start the new engine and enjoy

After almost 1 month of waiting, here I bring another update.

The day before yesterday we finally assembled the engine with all the parts in hand (I need to wait more that 3 weeks to receive), and I can confirm that the big difference in the cylinder high and at the top of the piston stroke was in the connecting rod and now everything fit perfectly.

Part of the implications of the connecting rod being longer, and therefore the cylinder, is that the timing chain shoes are longer and vary a little in their shape, and of course, the timing chain is longer, so was changed, and also the chain tensor, since the inlet mouth where the tensor goes in the 530 cylinder has a different shape than that of the 500 HPE, and I like to have all look as is always that way

Another extra are longest cylinder studs to compensate the longest 530 cylinder vs the 500 cylinder, but that's minor carpentry

Something interesting is that the diameter of the valves of the 530 and the 500 HPE are the same, so we decided not to touch the 500 cylinder head and leave everything as is.

Another interesting fact, the 530's camshaft has lower lobes than the 500's by approximately 2 mm, so I assume the 530's valves must be longer to compensate for that? Or maybe the angle change a lot? I'm not sure, but that's what I can speculate without physically having a 530 cylinder head to be able to compare well. Another reason not to touch the cylinder head.

Another interesting fact is that the injector on the 530 and the 500 are exactly the same (even the same part number) so I'm not worried about the fuel supply.

After we put everything together we realized that our oil supplier had run out of the 5W40 oil that we were going to put in and it was not easy to get it in my place, but this morning they shipped it to us and we started the new engine for the first time... the engine started on the first try, and was super quiet, much quieter than the 500HPE. I don't have an explanation for that, but it's something that caught my attention.

Tomorrow we will begin the process of bleeding the cooling system, putting covers, etc etc and doing some extra details that were on the list but were left on the back burner until the engine was finished to do the first ride to see how everything behaves in real use.

I will continue to inform and share my impressions when everything is operational and running.

not clear to me. did you change the rod to 530? thanks for documenting this swap.

Yes Jerryd, the 530 have a rod that is some like 6-7 mm longest that the one from the 500. And as the rod is a piece that can't be purchase alone, I need to purchase the 530 crankshaft with the rod.

And I need to say that the 530 crankshaft and rod looks better and solve some lubrication problems in the 500 one. In example the oil conducts/passageways now are conical not straight and where the piston pin connects is now a kind of bushing that should prevent the wear and play that sometimes occurs there on the 500s.