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sbaert wrote:
Define "achieving something"
Achieving something: to succeed at reaching or accomplishing (a goal, result, etc.) especially through effort
sbaert wrote:
2 extra ponies? Yeeeeah, that's worth the time and money spent ... NOT
If I'm happy doing it and you are happy don't doing it, is fine, right?
As is argued before here, in this same thread, anyone do what is happy to do, and something that maybe for you is useless for others is the happy path... more if is not your time or money in place

De gustibus non disputandum est
⚠️ Last edited by dariusz on UTC; edited 1 time
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Maksor wrote:
the powercommanders and rapidbikes are all the same you just buy a cableharness for a specific bike with it

exemple this one is for a Duc rapid bike

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

or this one will fit all master engines its the old one for a 400 but lambda pick-up injection plugs are all the same

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text

or memjet
External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
Rapid Bike actual models are now more complicated and the modules costs a huge money to archive something, the target is more for a tuning shop, more that final user

About the Power Commander FC, the only one I can find is for BV300 2009-2010, from my understand it have some "preloaded" maps (the first dial from 1 to 10, not sure if can be used in a 500 engine?) and is possible to play, based on this maps with a +/- 10% in 3 different RPM zones, not sure if it works for a mp3 500 as the only reference is BV300 but if is possible I like it, but as manual info says, for Piaggio only works in the close loop area... but as I say, if can work I like it

Memjet is a unit that intercepts the IAT to talk the ECU that the air temperature is cold as is, don't like to much it.

What about the Malossi 5514746? It exist for MP3 500 and use the lambda signal and the injector signal, maybe a good compromise?
Maksor wrote:
Don't expect a hughes increase of horspower with just this setup its just help fooling the sensors to give it a bit more
my 2009 with 48 crack hp did have a worked on head and lots of other things done to it did run with a Rapid bike but not a plug and play one it was programmed on a Dyno for the whole RPM range
I'm not looking for a huge HP increment, only that I can add the extra fuel that is needed to accomplish smooth fuel in the RPM range with the biggest cylinder.
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In our specific case, the idea is simple. Because the 530 has the bolt (connector from the connecting rod to the crankshaft and the piston, in Spanish is Bulon, I don't know the exact name in English, sorry) out of phase compared to the 500 and a longer connecting rod, it requires (or rather does in the ECU) that the injector and/or spark plug firing occurs in a later time than in the 500, which the 500's ECU does not do (or do less). Since the signal from the crankshaft sensor in both is the same, I assume that the 530's ECU takes charge, but since I don't have a way to delay this signal to the ECU or inside the ECU, the other way is to delay it via the rotor assembly. Simply have the crankshaft sensor read/send the signal a few degrees later, thus guaranteeing that the injector pulse and spark occur at the precise moment it should occur mechanically, then the adjustments made by the map of the ECU to delay or advance spark the minimum required quantities will still occur, but on a correct baseline.

The connecting rod is the same for 530 as from a 500 HPE same stroke piaggio is a lazy company changes take a while 460 to 492 did take allmost 10 years
The 30cc is in the bigger cylinder and piston, the head and valves are basicly the same

Not in all but in some of the WorkShopManual there is specification for the clearance and angle for the pickup to the flywheel iff you did take the stator out and laying to hard on a workbench or dropped it that can cause a marginal crack in a copper winding that can cause a different reading by the pickup also disconnecting the pickup from the flywheelhousing iff you take the startor out and bending the wires to much can cause a little break in the wire that also can give a different value to the ECU because the resistant is different

I still think you have to look somewhere there
Piaggio loves to work with resistance and ohms also ground cables or a bad ground connections give a different resistance most common problem on older bikes

Engine wise there are no big differents between a 500 HPE advanced and a 530

again the ECU doesn't have that ability to delay or advance it in front it does that with fuel on the next stroke the Mp3 advanced isn't that advanced its still a engine that's seen first light in 2002 as a 400 with spagetti wiring Razz emoticon it just seen some minor updates in the years

i'm 100% sure iff i take one of my 3 new old stock crackcases build it up with a 492 cranckshaft or 400/460 cranckshaft 69 stroke with a 530 cilinder it will run without problems on the older 400 / 500 ecu and on the 500 HPE 904 and 905 advanced ecu even without a reverse installed on it
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If I'm not mistaken, he already said the rod is longer and they replaced the crank. You can have the same stroke with different length rods…
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well i've not taken a 530 apart jet but if so common sense this bike still got all his old components ECU flywheel crankshaft and so on

that would not give this problem those will turn and spin as supposed and intended to!!!
No differents if you install a 400 a 430 a 460 or a 492 cylinder or even a 530 they all can be made to fit and will run

Then this should also be the case on my conversions
i go even bigger with a very different crankshaft for 2 piston for a gp800 that comes with shallower Cylinders

then we have to grinddown Cylinder walls more then 1 cm and making room for the rod to move freely without hitting the wall when going up and down also inside of the piston is covering the oiling hole for lubricating the pistonpin on the connecting rod

Slso there are watering edges from poring the piston those have to be grinded down also , they will hit the crank

And one cylinder needs to get a hole for the chain tensioner because 1 of the cylinders will be installed upside down so you have to weld on material make it like factory and make a hole

i've also seen a 2022 HPE advanced model with a older 69 stroke engine with the new head and cylinder running fine

a customer of mine bought it at an auction later it became clear that it was hit from behind and the rear crankcase cracked or something like that so someone fitted a 400 base and crankshaft engine, with i assume the head and piston, cylinder and reverse of the broken engine
they did take 5mm from the bottum of the cylinderwall off and grinded down the bottum of the piston where the pin is sitting otherwise it would hit the cranck so it was an early 400 cranck a or b the later ones need only the piston mod so the oil did flow freely

So its one of 2 things in mine opinion both where posted:
the pickup is off or bad
the crank is hitting something Cylinderwal or the bottum top parts of the piston


Especially with the 800 we fit everything dry with out gaskets oil and turn it over manual
first by hand then by the starter with more RPm's because it all manual labor the grinding, and sometimes we need to adjust more when it feels fine we go to final assembly and then i did have 2 times when it wasn't right

Thats also why i can't make a plug and play kit for the gp/srv every engine is different in .1 of a mm and that why a conversion will cost more money then people like
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Very interesting project!
I was just thinking about this a few months ago and found this post and been following since then.

I think Maksor is right on this. I don't think the ECU will cut itself off when it's running fine below 4000rpm. Maybe it's the pickup, but more likely something mechanical.

As you increase the throttle things will expand by a few 0.01mm and it can hit something you won't see with the eye when assembling.

Keep up the good work, you will get there!
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Maksor wrote:
The connecting rod is the same for 530 as from a 500 HPE same stroke piaggio is a lazy company changes take a while 460 to 492 did take allmost 10 years
Not true statement (true in that Piaggio is a lazy company ha ha ha). I measure both rods, the one from the 530 is longer and the "bulon" is out of phase compared to the 500, this is why I need to purchase a 530 crankshaft (thanks for the laziness of Piaggio the rest of the parts fit well)
I open it and if you only put the new cylinder in place (as I do and publish and show some pictures that compare both) you find that the piston never goes all the way up for maybe 6-7mm
Maksor wrote:
The 30cc is in the bigger cylinder and piston, the head and valves are basicly the same
This is true, very similar, the 30cc is in the diameter of the piston/cylinder and the stroke is the same, but as I say before, you can have the same stroke with a 20 cm rod or with a 50 cm one. Remember, I have in my hands both crankshaft/rods and both cylinders/pistons, and I do the measures. This assemble is not some empiric work.
Maksor wrote:
Not in all but in some of the WorkShopManual there is specification for the clearance and angle for the pickup to the flywheel iff you did take the stator out and laying to hard on a workbench or dropped it that can cause a marginal crack in a copper winding that can cause a different reading by the pickup also disconnecting the pickup from the flywheelhousing iff you take the startor out and bending the wires to much can cause a little break in the wire that also can give a different value to the ECU because the resistant is different
I have all the workshop manuals (2019 500 with reverse, 2021 Sport Advanced and 530 HPE) and we check every single cables, ohms, etc trying to find the problem where is, and can say is more that shows at single view. We check all the signals and we don't have any error in the ECU that shows something is wrong. So as we connect a oscilloscope we see the signals out of phase and rotating the rotor assembly we archive a stable engine, so the only possible explanation for this is that this signal is treated by the 530's ECU in some special way.
Maksor wrote:
Engine wise there are no big differents between a 500 HPE advanced and a 530
again the ECU doesn't have that ability to delay or advance it in front it does that with fuel on the next stroke the Mp3 advanced isn't that advanced its still a engine that's seen first light in 2002 as a 400 with spagetti wiring Razz emoticon it just seen some minor updates in the years
Maybe this is true before the 530, but the point is that with the signal delayed the bike stops shutting down Facepalm emoticon
Maksor wrote:
i'm 100% sure iff i take one of my 3 new old stock crackcases build it up with a 492 cranckshaft or 400/460 cranckshaft 69 stroke with a 530 cilinder it will run without problems on the older 400 / 500 ecu and on the 500 HPE 904 and 905 advanced ecu even without a reverse installed on it
Please do it, I'm sure that you find exactly the same what we find
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Dan90 wrote:
Very interesting project!
I was just thinking about this a few months ago and found this post and been following since then.

I think Maksor is right on this. I don't think the ECU will cut itself off when it's running fine below 4000rpm. Maybe it's the pickup, but more likely something mechanical.

As you increase the throttle things will expand by a few 0.01mm and it can hit something you won't see with the eye when assembling.

Keep up the good work, you will get there!
Hi, thank you for the words of encouragement, we think we are very close to having everything ready.

We check all the mechanical stuffs (no less that 5 times), clearance, etc and we found nothing. The shutdown (I think I describe it before) is very similar as if you press the Kill switch. Inclusive we override the kill switch circuit to be sure is not a cable or the switch playing with us ROFL emoticon

At this moment, with the movement of the rotor assembly a few degrees, we managed to ensure that the engine not only did not turn off out of nowhere, but also raised and lowered the RPM very well, stable and serene, both in the workshop and testing on the street. Now is a matter of finish find the exact point, but it is a laborious job because it involves disassembling, moving and reassembling (oil, water etc) and the oscilloscope we are using is not mine but from a friend that use it in hes workshop, so some times I need to wait 2 days to have access.
Maybe if we had a kind of circuit that allowed us to delay the signal with, for example, a knob, it would be much easier and fast.

The only concern that I have, as say before, is add the extra fuel in a easy way and we can close and start enjoy...
⚠️ Last edited by dariusz on UTC; edited 2 times
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UTC quote
oke then i think a 530 crank won't fit in the hpe crankcase then
Ranges of crankcases are

A to D where 400/500
E and F letters where dropped after discontinuing the old A to D series and now called A and B are for the ABS/ASR and HPE

the 530 starts again with A and B but with a different part number

Crankshaft PIAGGIO pin Ø22 Master 530 HPE H2O 4T 4V E5 Cat 1

Retail price:521,67 €
Price:377,60 €
347,39 €
Bulk discounts assortment:
1 PCS 347,39 €
2+ PCS 320,96 € (-15%)
3+ PCS 302,08 € (-20%)
4+ PCS 283,20 € (-25%)

All items that qualify for this bulk discount.
(Price for this item in the highest discount group: 320,96 €)

Type Cat 1 corresponds to the letter A or 1 8 work days
Type Cat 2 corresponds to the letter B or 2 8 work days


Article information
When replacing the crankshaft, it is important that you choose the same category of crankshaft as originally mounted. This category is indicated with a letter or number on the old crankshaft.

Cat 1 corresponds to the letter A or 1
Cat 2 corresponds to the letter B or 2

Fits
This product fits the following vehicles:

Piaggio MP3 LT Exclusive 530i HPE RST H2O 4T E5 '22-> (ZAPTD3100)
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Crankshaft PIAGGIO pin Ø22 Master 500 I.E H2O 4T 4V E3-E4 (NEW)
Home Spare Parts Engine parts Crankshafts



Retail price:1121,94 €
Price:812,10 €
747,13 €
Bulk discounts assortment:
1 PCS 747,13 €
2+ PCS 690,29 € (-15%)
3+ PCS 649,68 € (-20%)
4+ PCS 609,08 € (-25%)


Type Cat 1 corresponds to the letter A or 1 8 work days
Type Cat 2 corresponds to the letter B or 2 8 work days

Article information
When replacing the crankshaft, it is important that you choose the same category of crankshaft as originally mounted. This category is indicated with a letter or number on the old crankshaft.

Cat 1 corresponds to the letter A or 1
Cat 2 corresponds to the letter B or 2
Fits
This product fits the following vehicles:

Aprilia Scarabeo 500i Light H2O 4T E3 '06-'08 (ZD4VRE00 (EURO3))
Gilera Fuoco LT 500i H2O 4T E3 '13-'14 (ZAPM83100)
Gilera Fuoco RL 500i H2O 4T E3 '07-'13 (ZAPM61100)
Malaguti Spidermax 500i RS H2O 4T E3 '08-'11 (M34CM) (ZJM83)
Peugeot Geopolis 500i H2O 4T E3 '08-'13 (M563M) (VGAN2AFFA)
Peugeot Satelis 1 500i H2O 4T E3 '07-'13 (Master) (VGAJ2AFAA)
Piaggio Beverly Cruiser 500i H2O 4T E3 '07-'12 (ZAPM34500)
Piaggio MP3 LT Business 500i H2O 4T E3 '11-'13 (ZAPM64300)
Piaggio MP3 LT Business 500i H2O 4T E3 '14-'16 (ZAPM86100 / ZAPM86101)
Piaggio MP3 LT Business 500i H2O 4T E4 '16-'18 (ZAPTA1200 / ZAPTA1201)
Piaggio MP3 LT Business 500i HPE H2O 4T E4 '18-'20 (ZAPTA1202 / ZAPTA1204)
Piaggio MP3 LT Sport 500i H2O 4T E3 '11-'13 (ZAPM64300)
Piaggio MP3 LT Sport 500i H2O 4T E3 '14-'16 (ZAPM86100 / ZAPM86101)
Piaggio MP3 LT Sport 500i H2O 4T E4 '16-'18 (ZAPTA1200 / ZAPTA1201)
Piaggio MP3 LT Sport Advanced 500i HPE H2O 4T E4 '18-'20 (ZAPTA1202 / ZAPTA1204 / ZAPTA10X)
Piaggio MP3 LT Sport Advanced 500i HPE H2O 4T E5 '21-'22 (ZAPTD1102)
Piaggio MP3 RL 500i H2O 4T E3 '07-'09 (ZAPM610X)
Piaggio MP3 RL Business 500i H2O 4T E3 '11-'12 (ZAPM59200)
Piaggio MP3 RL Business 500i H2O 4T E3 '15-'17 (ZAPM860X)
Piaggio MP3 RL Business 500i H2O 4T E4 '18 (ZAPTA10W)
Piaggio MP3 RL Sport 500i H2O 4T E3 '10-'12 (ZAPM59200 / ZAPM610X)
Piaggio MP3 RL Sport 500i H2O 4T E3 '15-'17 (ZAPM860X)
Piaggio MP3 RL Sport 500i H2O 4T E4 '18 (ZAPTA10W)
Piaggio MP3 RL Touring 500i H2O 4T E3 '10 (ZAPM59200)
Piaggio X10 500i H2O 4T E3 '12-'13 (ZAPM76300)
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Piaggio MP3 530 HPE RST Exclusive ABS E5 2022-2023 (EMEA) - Parts Crankcase
Complete Crankcase Cat A
Home Spare Parts Genuine parts




Retail price:990,07 €
Price:716,65 €
659,32 €
Bulk discounts assortment:
1 PCS 659,32 €
2+ PCS 609,15 € (-15%)
3+ PCS 573,32 € (-20%)
4+ PCS 537,49 € (-25%)

All items that qualify for this bulk discount.
(Price for this item in the highest discount group: 609,15 €)
Piaggio Part number: CM323602A
Average delivery time (excl. shipping):
8 work days
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and i've a 460 without head and cylinder that i can put on the metal Lathe to widen the opening

It will be a single spark then i've got only single spark second hand heads
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Maksor wrote:
oke then i think a 530 crank won't fit in the hpe crankcase then
It fit, I have one ha ha ha, if you need, the part number is 1A01963701, and don't forget the 4 Cylinder Studs, part number 1A020488, as are longest because the cylinder is higher, and all the new gaskets.

Maybe the chain tensor (1A018752 with gasket), sliding rod 1A020454 and the tightening rod 1A020453 or you can modify the 500 one and the longest chain.
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Would the new 530 hpe kit (crank,cil,head etc) also fit on the older 460 engines? Or only on the newer models?

I have a 493 engine laying around but it's still in good condition so if possible i want to avoid tearing that one down.

Did you manage to figure it out the problem dariusz?
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Dan90 wrote:
Would the new 530 hpe kit (crank,cil,head etc) also fit on the older 460 engines? Or only on the newer models?

I have a 493 engine laying around but it's still in good condition so if possible i want to avoid tearing that one down.
Good question, I don't have a straight answer for that, but most parts are the same, maybe I think remember that the crankshaft sensor in olders 500 are at the head and not at crankshaft? Maybe that do it more easy? Not sure
Dan90 wrote:
Did you manage to figure it out the problem dariusz?
We can't work the weekend on it so we start today again. I expect have all in place today afternoon and maybe my friend can come with the oscilloscope tomorrow. If all goes good we open again to go to the machine shop to make the mod in the rotor assembly for the final close and we are done. (finger crossed)
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the older engine won't fit a mp3 because it doesn't have the bottum mounting rings only the top one and uses this swing arm

the other pic is from and older 460 head
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Maksor wrote:
the older engine won't fit a mp3 because it doesn't have the bottum mounting rings only the top one and uses this swing arm

the other pic is from and older 460 head
Yeah i know that. I mean, if the 530 cil + head + crank would fit the older 460 crankcase (besides widening the case to fit the cil ofcourse)

These crankcases are pretty much the same right?
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nope flywheelcover is also different so if you want to Fit a 500 (492) or 530 you can not fit a crankshaft sensor nor a camshaft sensor then these where used by the early atlantics, Beverly's and X9 500 from 2003 to 2006 before that it was a 460 rotax not even a Piaggio engine

the 460 i have is a crankcase for a 400 fited with a newer 460 only sold on a 2006/2008 Gilera Nexus 500 and aprillia atlantic 500 light and those enignes are rare especily here in the netherlands i know of 4 Appies light and 8 or 9 of the nexus kind
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Maksor wrote:
nope flywheelcover is also different so if you want to Fit a 500 (492) or 530 you can not fit a crankshaft sensor nor a camshaft sensor then these where used by the early atlantics, Beverly's and X9 500 from 2003 to 2006 before that it was a 460 rotax not even a Piaggio engine

the 460 i have is a crankcase for a 400 fited with a newer 460 only sold on a 2006/2008 Gilera Nexus 500 and aprillia atlantic 500 light and those enignes are rare especily here in the netherlands i know of 4 Appies light and 8 or 9 of the nexus kind
Indeed they are pretty rare here in the netherlands. So you mean the M351M engine? I don't know what you mean with appies?

It is for a Nexus M352M engine. I was thinking if the flywheel fits, the pickup should work as well with all the electronics. But probably need to customize the mapping of the ecu.

I'm unsure if the crank would fit in the crankcase because of the play between the "bearings" (Don't know the right naming). If my case is an A for example, do i need an A crank because of dimensions etc. Need to figure that out.
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Appie = Aprilia just like a Duc is in Dutch a Stukgatie or stukgingdie freely translate itwilbreak or itsbroke Razz emoticon ROFL emoticon

and yes the M273M and m353M are the same as the M611M 492cc M612M 492cc M641M 400cc and M861M 492cc TA12M ABS/ASR i know that the TA13M 500HPE does have a different head and chain tensioner but those fit even on a M641M 400 the TA31m 530 only seen and road on it

the eaisest way i think now to fit a 530 on a 500 is to make the Cylinder smaller in height and compare the piston pin location on the pston to a 500 if that off searching for a aftermarket piston with the same piston pin height as a 500

and crankcases and crankshaft need to correspond when new 1 and A, 2 and B numbers and letters are stamp on the part

it could be that a used 1 crank can fit a b crankcase but not the other way arround because of wear did found this out with a crankshaft of the older Beverly 500 69 stroke for a 400 mp3 crankcase
Did also have to fit the bearings shells from the older engine

Later i've fixed a few 400 crankcases that way that did run without oil, by taking out from the older 460 M271M engines the crankshaft and bearing shells the ball bearings are normaly not a problem one time did have a ball bearing that didn't fit the crankcase used another new one that i did have in stock
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Maksor wrote:
the eaisest way i think now to fit a 530 on a 500 is to make the Cylinder smaller in height and compare the piston pin location on the pston to a 500 if that off searching for a aftermarket piston with the same piston pin height as a 500
We thought about that path initially, I think it can be seen in the comparative photos in this link [url]https://modernvespa.com/forum/topic182787#2657470[/url] and I comment on it in the following posts.

But there are several considerations that can cause big problems.

For example, the upper area of the cylinder is the "hot zone" and by removing the 6-7 mm that are needed there is a big risk that the upper walls through which the coolant passes will be very narrow and/or with poor heat transfer, and that would only lead to an engine with a tendency to overheat, and that is not wanted.

Then we thought about "shaving" on the milling machine 7 mm from the bottom part of the cylinder without touch the cylinder liner (this seemed to be the best way to avoid compromising temperatures and performance), but the space is small as can be seen in other of the pictures in the previous link.

Then we thought about removing only about 2-3 mm at the top and the rest at the bottom, but (you can see in one of the photos) there is the tube where the coolant hose connects and at best 1 mm maybe 2 mm could be removed without leaving the wall very thin/weak, and we don't want the possibility of a coolant leak, additionally when reducing the coolant hose couldn't fit completely and sit well Facepalm emoticon

After measuring, reviewing, put together both cylinders, consulting with friends from workshops that specialize in modifying engines for high performance and competition, etc., the best option that we all agreed on was changing the crankshaft, since the connecting rod is something that is not sold alone.

Perhaps if the connecting rod could be obtained alone, the extra necessary for the piston to line up in the correct place at the upper dead point would be about 1 or 2 mm and there the options of lowering the upper part in the milling cutter would be viable.
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if you look at your pic there is a line and it looks like they added material on the top of the Cylinder
And shaving of 2 at the bottom and 3 from the top should be enough

Here are some pics just made of a 430 GP800 Cylinder a used 492cc and the 530 also height different between the 500 and 430 3.7mm and total 6mm

the Cylinder wall of the 430 notches in them the 530 also
When i fit a 500 cylinder on the gp800, i've to make the notches bigger on the 500 cylinder, a different stroke and firmer/bigger piston rod on a GP800

Of the 4 or 5 gp engines we did non of the notches where the same due to casting differents of the crank and piston rod
Also the curve on the bottom and sometimes even the Piaggio logo inside the piston needs to be grind away

When we didn't get the adjustment right (with a dry run with a wrench not noticeable) but running when the engine got warm we did get variables in RPM drops from 1000 rpm when we toke it apart you could see marks on the bottom of the Piston from hitting the crank or piston rod

Never did have the problem while fitting the 430 on a 400 engine same stroke but different crank did 10 of those
i've even by misstake put a 400 cilinder on a 492 crankshaft without problems grabed the wrong crankshaft then becomes a 420cc

But maybe you can get the bin file from a 530 Throttlebody buy a immitation Kess on Aliexpress and you can download it by using the OBD2 port and upload the file to your throttlebody the same way now you have fitted the 530 crank i do this to the older 400 throttlebodies i've leftover The 500 is selling better
530
530
height
height
500
500
430
430
we have to grind away the Curve make it flat otherwise it will hit the Crankshaft
we have to grind away the Curve make it flat otherwise it will hit the Crankshaft
⚠️ Last edited by Maksor on UTC; edited 2 times
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Maksor wrote:
if you look at your pic there is a line and it looks like they added material on the top of the Cylinder
At first we also thought it was added material but it is more of a mark of the casting process.

Furthermore, the upper wall at that point, measured to where the coolant content is, is only around 10-11 mm before turning inward, which is why we were worried that if it was lowered there it would be weak and with poor heat dissipation. Even the shapes of the coolant ducts/passages between the cylinder jacket and the external wall of the cylinder in the 530 are somewhat larger and their shape is totally different from those of the 500.

Here we all agreed that it was a huge risk and there was no turning back if something didn't go well. The question even arose as to whether that part was higher, it should not be something coincidental, since all manufacturers look for savings in material, so there must be a valid reason to increase the general thickness there. Our idea was always to make an adaptation that looked like something that came from the factory like this and with the durability and reliability of something original.

As for the piston, there is no problem, I don't know if it can be seen in the photos, but the skirt of the 530 is shorter than that of the 500, so is not something to be concerned.

I think about obtain a bin from a 530 and try to place that map in the 500 ECU but I don't have access to a 530 and to the tools to extract and write a bin file again 😟
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https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-kess-clone.html

it makes a image from the throttlebody ecu mapping sensor positions and so on it will not copy immo codes they are stored in a seperate part of the ECU

And with the right software its possible to change the mapping, variables of sensor in the bin file, it is a bit time consuming because you need to down and upload the file several times but the cheapest and easiest way to get an other bin file on the ECU

For immo stuff you need a K-tag and a bunch of Questionable software that a Virus scanner doesn't like so use a old laptop i've got both kess and k-tag also use scooterworkshoptool for immo stuff reading the hex codes without take off the throttlebody
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Maksor wrote:
https://www.aliexpress.com/w/wholesale-kess-clone.html

it makes a image from the throttlebody ecu mapping sensor positions and so on it will not copy immo codes they are stored in a seperate part of the ECU

And with the right software its possible to change the mapping, variables of sensor in the bin file, it is a bit time consuming because you need to down and upload the file several times but the cheapest and easiest way to get an other bin file on the ECU

For immo stuff you need a K-tag and a bunch of Questionable software that a Virus scanner doesn't like so use a old laptop i've got both kess and k-tag also use scooterworkshoptool for immo stuff reading the hex codes without take off the throttlebody
interesting ...

do you know if kess and/or ktag works with the MIU G4 in a Vespa HPE?
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it should work i connect with obd plug and it makes a image of the Throttlebody but there is also a newerstyle clone the kess v3 yellow color but more expensive
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Maksor wrote:
it should work i connect with obd plug and it makes a image of the Throttlebody but there is also a newerstyle clone the kess v3 yellow color but more expensive
I did some research and it looks like kess v2 (red?) will work with the miu g4 in my vespa. I think I'll buy it (clone from aliexpress*). Then I'll have to either buy an xdf (oldskulltuning.com sells a matching one) or make my own and start to explore in tuner pro.

* I gather that the clone on aliexpress comes with pirated software that works? I'll use an old laptop with nothing else on it in case of virus
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i did have a xdf file for the mp3 to adjust Fuel RPM and speed but that llaptop crashed Crying or Very sad emoticon
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I was following thread up to the point you had a random stalling problem. In the end you found the problem. problem = sudden loss of spark at coil.

the cause of problem WAS NOT ecu related. length of rod does not change when piston reaches TDC. the crankshaft sensor is in a fixed position. same position on 400 500 530. variable timing exists in the ecu mapping. changing position of sensor at crank would change timing of entire map. changing rod length does not change timing anywhere.

if the ecu was shutting down because of the crank signal position change, you would of had a CODE from ecu.

in the end you HAD an electrical connection problem. plugging and unplugging wire harness created this faulty connection in the first place. and that process is also what corrected your problem.

on my majesty 400 engine I wanted more timing advance. I elongated holes on the crank timing sensor to advance timing 3.5 degrees. ECU has no way to know I made this change. this is the old school equivalent of setting initial timing by rotating your distributor. engine run fine before and after this change.
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jerryd wrote:
I was following thread up to the point you had a random stalling problem. In the end you found the problem. problem = sudden loss of spark at coil.

the cause of problem WAS NOT ecu related. length of rod does not change when piston reaches TDC. the crankshaft sensor is in a fixed position. same position on 400 500 530. variable timing exists in the ecu mapping. changing position of sensor at crank would change timing of entire map. changing rod length does not change timing anywhere.

if the ecu was shutting down because of the crank signal position change, you would of had a CODE from ecu.

in the end you HAD an electrical connection problem. plugging and unplugging wire harness created this faulty connection in the first place. and that process is also what corrected your problem.

on my majesty 400 engine I wanted more timing advance. I elongated holes on the crank timing sensor to advance timing 3.5 degrees. ECU has no way to know I made this change. this is the old school equivalent of setting initial timing by rotating your distributor. engine run fine before and after this change.
Hi Jerryd, yes some like that, all old school.

I haven't posted more because I had to stop working on the bike for work reasons, but I hope to get back on track next week and finish putting everything together with some lighting details and so I'll take advantage of what to do by having everything disassembled (easier ). After that and test all for the first 1000Km I like to do a write about the results of the journey

But in short, the engine now runs like a Swiss watch, after moving about -5.5 to -6 degrees at the rotor level, it was the healthiest change, it doesn't turn off, the temperature is perfect and it has a lot of energy/joy. As I wrote before, that delay must be within the 530's ECU basemap, but without access to it it's just speculation.

The problem is not so much the length of the rod (I think at some point I gave an example that the travel with a 20 meter rod is the same as with a 20 cm one), but that in the new crankshaft the rod is out of phase compared to the one of the 500, therefore the rotation point is not exactly the same (it was what we were able to deduce when reviewing the signals with the oscilloscope) and that is why the signal when it arrives does not reach the expected intervals/momentum. When doing the manual delay we simply put the signal in sync with what was expected by the 500 ECU and the TDC, so basically we return to the sync point with the new components.
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