Modern Vespa

Uh.
What's this?

oh gawd. please tell me it's some schmutz and not a crack...

Keen eye.

Mostly just oil crud though…

Cleaned up with a wipe of a towel.

Listened again to your squeak.
So strange.
Certainly sounds like rubber rubbing.
Have a theory of everything (TOE):

Considerations:
- Crank appears to have scraped in the rotational direction.
- But also there are signs it scraped as it was pulled in - see perpendicular striations
- Mystery swarf inside of motor doesn't seem normal
- Motor sounds like it swallowed your dogs squeaky toy

My hypotenuse:
- Main bearing is or was not square when installed
- One of your main seals was dragging - swarf may be related and comes form seal's metal if it has any

Treatment:
Maybe replace main and seals just in case.
Definitely pressure test.
Check inlet pad for scratches and skim coat as needed.
Get second opinion - they would never have hired me at sloan kettering.

Thanks everyone... it takes a village... especially when you're the idiot. (I'm pointing at myself there.)

I didn't have trouble closing the cases, which I would have expected if the bearing wasn't seated squarely? It also opened up easily enough and the crank came out w/o any issue? I really am puzzled here.

Someone asked about the crank condition... it's clean and nothing that looks amiss. It does have staining on one edge that probably was facing the carb opening for many years. But nothing that scares me. Will try and post some pics later and get ya'lls thoughts.

Ned , as far as the pad goes. It's clean. Maybe a tiny area of a mark but nothing that you could catch a nail on even.

Plan of attack: I'll pull the seals and investigate the bearings and races.

More soon.

A "Most Vintage Vespa Statement Ever" nominee right there.

those "gouges" look like they predate the cleanup machining done after casting.

*snickers* If the squeeky case fits... Thank you for that. Made me go back and look for pics when I spilt the case originally. I think you are right!

You can just make them out...

Well... the drip, drip, drip, of the repair treadmill continues. Hmm maybe that drip, drip, drip is the sound of my tears falling as the saga drags on...

I tore down the engine again, replaced all the seals, (None of which looked abnormal.) put it all back together and, still not holding pressure.

The search continues....

I'm tellin' ya...smoke test...it'll find the leak every time.

Yeah, probably a good call ese.

Hmmm... I've been lurking, waiting for the other shoe to drop with you finding the source, it all makes sense and all is right in the world.

You say it's still not holding pressure - slow leak, medium or pretty fast? I second Chandler's suggestion, it sure made solving my smallie leak and checking afterwards easy! Fortunately leak was at the manifold but not obvious, so it was a simple fix once located.

Some mysteries got Agatha Christied today.

Mark asked me if I smoked?

"Why I do smoke on occasion Mark. Why do you ask?"

"Well," he replied, "there's your smoke machine."

So off to the bodega we went. Then I shotgunned the cigar (pic below) through the innertube into the exhaust stub.

And well… we found the squeak so to speak. It turns out …due to the case cut of a rally 180 that fiber glass spacer is critical.

Now we are off to see if I have one of those damn spacers somewhere.


https://youtube.com/shorts/0TuVwLUugU4?feature=share

I am shocked… SHOCKED… how well it ran without the spacer.

Hilarious and now I must confess that I found my leak the same way, but used the machine later to test and verify that all was well after I was only pretty sure I'd fixed it. But I can confirm that your way works just fine.

So…. Leak is way better but not solved. It loses pressure over a few minutes.

I used a real deal smoke tester (not my cigar shenanigans) and just don't see any smoke leaking from anywhere?

Recap -
1. Rebuilt and ran well but couldn't get that nice low tick-over

2. Developed a weird squeek when kicked over

3. Lots of diagnostics with the engine insito before pulling.

4. Split cases again and all looked good.

5. Replaced seals anyway

6. Cromag style smoke test revealed the bake light spacer is 100% needed on 180 cases and probably the cause of the main leak and previously mentioned squeek.

7. Holding much better pressure but still looses air over 5 to 10 minutes.

8. Got the SWEET MJ Rally blank (Thanks Malcom!!!) … and then ran a real smoke test with a real smoke tester and do not SEE any leaks, but still looses pressure over a few minutes.

9. Anybody with ideas?

10. Scooters are stupid. (Still love them.)

Assume you are on the bench - no a stand.

Leak is limited.
Don't want to tear apart (again).
My suspicions/approach would be:
1. leak between cases at the thin area around the crank. Test - pressurize then rotate motor upside down - spray soapy water so it fills the oil breather cap. Spray soapy water at base of clutch arm where it enters cover. If your leak is either clutch seal or case mating internally - it will show up here.
2. Do same with soapy water at Malcom's sealing plate - not that Malcom's sealing plate isn't awesome! but because there could be some warpage or something occurring there - so check it out.
3. Other usual suspects - cylinder to case, head to cylinder, cylinder studs at head nut, exhaust. With each of these - orient the motor so the soapy water wants to kinda sit up on the surface - then rotate and try again. Use air to dry the crap out of it after if you have an iron cylinder. Then spray it with WD40 - or just do that prophylacticly - to avoid flash rust.

Odds:
Case mating internal at clutch - 3:1
At or around blanking plate - 5:1
Cylinder base 10:1
Testing system itself - 1:1

🙂

Good luck!
Let us know!

Put me down for $10 worth of no longer usable Dave & Busters tokens on it being the case halves.

Welp…

I made incremental improvement. I think at this point some of the air leak is the pressure test equipment and then a microscopic bleed somewhere on the engine. It holds between 100 and 120mm hg for 7 to 8 minutes on the engine. I can maybe double that on the pressure tester closed on itself.

At this point I am gonna send it.

Hat tip to Ned and Mark and everyone for help.

Mark asked if I remembered to cut the "nibs" off the gasket. (The little flaps by the cylinder.)
Ahem. I never have! Lolz. 🫢 So, off came the cylinder and I excised the mashed nibs with a razor blade.

I think it made a difference. Thanks all for all the help.
Onwards.

Send it!
Launch it!!!

ship it!

it's a short week and all, but I expect you to be riding this around for donuts on national donut day!

(it's Friday)

Squeekless in Seattle H-town!

What a week!
Blindly purchased the wrong speedo for a fraction of the thousands of dollars set for your minimum…,
And now this!
Awesome.

Imma go buy some scratchers when my paycheck clears!!!!

Silence of The Spanish...

Muy Bien!

Quick bit on jetting for myself or anyone searching stock or stockish rally 180 jetting

20/20 carb
SiP rally 180 can
Was running 160/be3/108


Was losing power and flat at points of the main jet when WOT.

Moved up to 110 felt good (110 bc was handy, also book says BE2, but I can't find one in my parts pile).

Plan to drop in a 118 and work down.

Back for a wee update.

Somewhwere in the thread and in other posts on NSM legshield trim for the motovespa GT160 is discussed.

I had read, and heard from multiple sources, that aluminum trim from a small frame could be used. Additionally the sport trim repops available for the the Super, sprints, etc allegedly fit as well. SIP even lists them as fitting the motovespa GT...

I have tried 'em and in my experience none of them fit...at all. What does fit, is this version found in a dark lonely corner of SIP. It does not fit other scoots only the factory cutdown 150 and 160s from madrid. SIP gets it from a maker in Spain and it seems like quality stuff.

Part # 61004100

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/beading-legshield_61004100

FWIW

....glamor shot:

Ornate

nice horn

This post was not quite
What we were hoping to see
Try again, perhaps?

I had read that they used the Primavera trim as well. Where doesn't it fit?

Primavera trim is about 1/2 an inch longer across the top.

So if you bend/massage the primmy aluminum at the top it flares the trim and especially the next curve substantially… to the point it just won't fit without destroying paint. Granted, with crazy patience and ninja-level 🥷 metal working experience it's probably possible, but certainly not practical.

My experience only. YMMV. Etc etc.

Cheers BN!

Spitball time!

Before the Early January freezeicane of 2024 I ran all my scoots around for a few miles. The Spanish seemed to run out of gas as I hit 45mph on a stretch of open road. As one does I leaned down and opened the reserve. It continued to rev and then cut out, and then rev and cut out liked their was a fuel blockage. I pulled off to a side street and after maybe 200 yards it finally started running normal albeit it felt like I had some flat spots in the rev range. I checked fuel and had a half tank? Weird. I drove around and back onto the faster roads and never had the fuel starvation issue again, but it still felt like I had some flat spots in places in the throttle range.

Fastforward.
Moved plants out of the garage post freezes and was still waiting on ET3 parts ,so I thought I would tackle the known electical issue of a bad headlight on the spanish.
I consulted the known best tome of knowledge on Vespa electrics (Read: I texted Poi Dog.) And we surmised that the blue and yellow wires were backwards on my switch. So I swapped them.

Scoot is non bat so I went to kick it over and test the switchero of the blue and yellow. Started up for a second and YES! We finally had headlight. Woohoo.

But, the scoot died quickly. And then was a total bitch to start...
I grabbed the carb cleaner to spray some starter juice ... started for a second and then I heard a small pop at the flywheel. Like maybe a a cap gun sound?


By this point I also suspected it was flooded. So I went inside poured a cocktail, tilted my head whilst staring and blinking in the general direction of the garage. Then, cocktail consumed, I did what any self respecting scooterist would do... I bump started the motherfucker and road around the block. Lights work! Yay. Still had some strange flats spots though.

My plan=
1. Clean carb and reevaluate?

if still funky

2. Check timing and reevaluate?

The only thing that gives me pause is the cap gun pop that came from the Pinasco flywheel.

Would appreciate thoughts, conjecture, spitballs, I told ya so's.

probably worth popping off the flywheel and checking the key status

I say - trust yourself.
You heard a pop - out of the ordinary.
Sounds like an arc.
I'd be searching for a bad ground.

Couple options.
1. Start it in the dark with the cover off. Any weird blue light flashing under or around the stator?
2. As SDJ suggested - pull the flywheel - look for a witness black flash mark. Wiggle every wire to see if you can find something loose - but pay close attention to where they go through holes that might wear a spot and allow arcing.

If all else fails and you can't find the issue - try combo of shrink tube and or elec tape all over the place and see if it fixes. If yes - double down on finding.

I'm going to guess it's a pinched wire underneath the stator. It'll wear through, then cause intermittent issues as you hit bumps, the bike hits certain RPM's, etc. Eventually, it'll just ground out and leave you stranded.

Took the flywheel off... inspected the stator... opened up the junction box... did the Hollywood Holt... checked out the VR and all connects... inspected pass throughs... all looks well and good.

Went for a ride. Felt fuel starved at start up again, and I had to switch over to reserve again even with the half tank. Still anemic in spots as compared to recent autumn rides.

Will clean the carb and look at fuel flow. Then CDI switcheroo if the fuel system maintenance goes nowhere.

Are you sure it's not the fuel tank breather hole getting blocked? The symptoms aren't a perfect match, but worth a look.

Ditto for something caught in/blocking the fuel tap.

I'm too lazy to go back and look, but you cleaned the carb, right?