Sun, 20 Nov 2022 18:58:55 +0000

Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP), 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica)
Joined: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 17:25:54 +0000
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Location: Asbury Park, NJ
 
Ossessionato
2015 GTS 300 Super (Melody: 2015-2021, RIP), 2022 GTS SuperTech (Thelonica)
Joined: Wed, 22 Apr 2015 17:25:54 +0000
Posts: 3768
Location: Asbury Park, NJ
Sun, 20 Nov 2022 18:58:55 +0000 linkquote
Maybe this issue has become the abused dead-horse…

https://tinyurl.com/yc5hccvk

…but, among other things, look at that ringer-for-a-Vespa in the photo: do I hear throngs of lawyers on horseback?
Sun, 20 Nov 2022 21:21:47 +0000

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:09:48 +0000
Posts: 1679
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: Sun, 07 Dec 2008 14:09:48 +0000
Posts: 1679
Location: Hyde Park, New York
Sun, 20 Nov 2022 21:21:47 +0000 linkquote
Ban the sale of refurbished batteries in New York City? So if you paddle across river to Jersey does the ban hold there? How about in Yonkers? I've heard that some of the fires were caused by use of the wrong charger. Are all the fires caused by defective batteries or defective people?
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 05:40:34 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:36:51 +0000
Posts: 7773
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Fri, 25 Nov 2022 05:40:34 +0000 linkquote
kz1000ST wrote:
Are all the fires caused by defective batteries or defective people?
I'm guessing the former

https://carnewschina.com/2022/04/18/chinese-electric-vehicles-are-on-fire/
"Of course, there is a positive correlation between the number of sales and fire accidents. The February 2022 EV sales data shows that BYD sold more EVs than the other brands. Li Auto sold more EVs than XPeng, while Li Auto came in sixth with five fire accidents and XPeng came in seventh with four fire accidents. Zotye barely sells any cars anymore, and it had only two fire accidents. NIO seems impressive with only one fire."

My favorite comment was, "When it's not running, it save a lot of energy"

Looks like something from r/combatfootage
More Early Adopters
There seems to be an issue or two that need to be addressed.
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 11:19:15 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 11:19:15 +0000 linkquote
Max will be along shortly to scoff at those who think you need an electric vehicle to start a fire.
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:24:05 +0000

Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i
Joined: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:40:13 +0000
Posts: 353
Location: Dahlonega, GA
 
Hooked
2013 BV350, 2014 GTS , 2016 GTS, 2013 Downtown 300i
Joined: Tue, 03 Mar 2020 20:40:13 +0000
Posts: 353
Location: Dahlonega, GA
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 12:24:05 +0000 linkquote
Interestingly, a look at all ICE vehicle fires shows the overwhelming vast majority started as electrical wiring or electrical component failures.
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:01:28 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 13:01:28 +0000 linkquote
znomit wrote:
Max will be along shortly to scoff at those who think you need an electric vehicle to start a fire.
You still remember that tragedy! I can laugh about it today however at the time it was really terrifying.

I have a close friend who has two electric bikes. Yesterday we discussed the case of these 🔥 and his opinion is that there are specific safety steps that must be followed while recharging the batteries. He doesn't blame the batteries but the folks who don't follow safety instructions.
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 16:50:09 +0000

Molto Verboso
Spoilt for choice...
Joined: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:50:35 +0000
Posts: 1013
Location: High Wycombe UK
 
Molto Verboso
Spoilt for choice...
Joined: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:50:35 +0000
Posts: 1013
Location: High Wycombe UK
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 16:50:09 +0000 linkquote
Max6200 wrote:
folks who don't follow safety instructions.
This ^^^
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:14:48 +0000

Ossessionato
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC 38,000km)
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 2367
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Ossessionato
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC 38,000km)
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 2367
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
Fri, 25 Nov 2022 22:14:48 +0000 linkquote
Recent news in Australia:

E-scooter blamed for destroying pricey Aston Martin car
https://www.9news.com.au/national/fire-manly-aston-martin-e-scooter-battery-warning-sydney/b7aa73b4-7930-4f35-9cd0-e787e2cbcb81
Sat, 26 Nov 2022 03:34:12 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:36:51 +0000
Posts: 7773
Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:36:51 +0000
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Location: NWAOK
Sat, 26 Nov 2022 03:34:12 +0000 linkquote
Max6200 wrote:
I have a close friend who has two electric bikes. Yesterday we discussed the case of these 🔥 and his opinion is that there are specific safety steps that must be followed while recharging the batteries. He doesn't blame the batteries but the folks who don't follow safety instructions.
I'm sure someone who lives on an upper floor of a high rise apartment building full of people charging these things will find that comforting when one of them explodes.

Can anyone think of a single product that occasionally bursts into flames or explodes that gives less consumer information or warnings about that aspect of the product at time of purchase?
My favorite solution was when one of the car companies said not to park your fully charged car in your garage.
What that tells me is that they expect some of their cars will burst into flames, but that they hope parking it outside will mitigate some of the damage.
Sat, 26 Nov 2022 04:34:32 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Sat, 26 Nov 2022 04:34:32 +0000 linkquote
Motovista wrote:
I'm sure someone who lives on an upper floor of a high rise apartment building full of people charging these things will find that comforting when one of them explodes.

Can anyone think of a single product that occasionally bursts into flames or explodes that gives less consumer information or warnings about that aspect of the product at time of purchase?
My favorite solution was when one of the car companies said not to park your fully charged car in your garage.
What that tells me is that they expect some of their cars will burst into flames, but that they hope parking it outside will mitigate some of the damage.
I've got plenty of gadgets that I'm only supposed to charge while watching them. For four hours. Yeah. I do that.

My only experience with a vehicle fire in the wild was a taxi in Shangri-la China. Petrol powered.

They really need to significantly monetise lithium cell recycling so the vape chargers and cell phone batteries find a way out of peoples junk bins. And old cars are appropriately dealt to.
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 15:53:50 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 15:53:50 +0000 linkquote
Max6200 wrote:
You still remember that tragedy! I can laugh about it today however at the time it was really terrifying.

I have a close friend who has two electric bikes. Yesterday we discussed the case of these 🔥 and his opinion is that there are specific safety steps that must be followed while recharging the batteries. He doesn't blame the batteries but the folks who don't follow safety instructions.
Something to inspire you all:



Thu, 01 Dec 2022 17:21:48 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 04:24:58 +0000
Posts: 12925
Location: Oregon City, OR
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300ABS, Buddy 125, Buddy Kick 125
Joined: Sun, 30 Dec 2007 04:24:58 +0000
Posts: 12925
Location: Oregon City, OR
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 17:21:48 +0000 linkquote
The Nissan LEAF has been the largest selling EV in the World until recently so there are a lot of them out there (and one in my garage). There has never been a battery explosion or fire in a LEAF. There was one example where a garage burned down with a LEAF inside. The battery did not burn. All this brings me back to the question posed above - battery design or owner error? If it is batteries causing these fires, I presume it is the result of a poor design (I note these are Chinascoots which are prone to other quality issues), or charging errors including faulty charging devices or procedures. The article leaves you with the impression this is a common issue. Does anyone know of any example anywhere involving a Vespa Elettrica?
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:07:32 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:07:32 +0000 linkquote
Owner error shouldn't be able to cause a fire. Because people are dumb in unexpected ways you need engineering controls to prevent bad things occurring.
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:11:01 +0000

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:11:01 +0000 linkquote
znomit wrote:
Owner error shouldn't be able to cause a fire. Because people are dumb in unexpected ways you need engineering controls to prevent bad things occurring.
There's no such thing as foolproof...
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:28:30 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
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Location: Hermit Kingdom
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
LX190 Friday afternoon special, Primavera, some pushbikes
Joined: Fri, 12 Oct 2007 21:16:28 +0000
Posts: 8636
Location: Hermit Kingdom
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:28:30 +0000 linkquote
I'm imagining someone unfamiliar with petrol powered cars trying to shove the charging cable into the gas tank.
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:46:51 +0000

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
Posts: 3150
Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:46:51 +0000 linkquote
I'm not an electric vehicle fan and don't own one. These conversations seem to keep devolving to car fires etc. Someone look up how many vehicles burn per 100,000 in gas vs electric. Homes burn down from garage fires started by gas powered vehicles everyday. Last I looked a gas car was 75 times more likely to catch on fire that electric. Wiring issues, fuel injectors leaking and spraying or misting fuel on a hot manifold. Fuel lines cracking with fuel pressure of 100psi and up to 2500 PSI on some direct injected systems. I just did a quick Google search and millions of vehicles have been recalled due to fire issues by Ford, Hyundai and Kia.

https://www.google.com/search?q=car+recall+fires&sxsrf=ALiCzsa08kd9Paq8pYAk6yBcikcHZds78A:1669930903473&source=lnt&tbs=qdr:y&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwic6bOysdn7AhVcg4kEHee4Dro4ChCnBQgR


As for batteries and poorly built ones, I think a company should be required to be ISO certified, bonded and insured to sell a lithium battery. A poorly built battery can easily start a fire and burn down a building.

Do electric bicycle batteries have a charging bag or metal bin to charge then in? I race RC cars and we have charging bags and metal bins so if a bar starts a bag contains it and a metal bin also helps. Maybe better battery charging education and procedures should be put in places for indoor charging?
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:58:33 +0000

Ossessionato
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC 38,000km)
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 2367
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Ossessionato
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC 38,000km)
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 2367
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 21:58:33 +0000 linkquote
^^ I'd bet the vast majority of many ICE car fires are not while the car is in use AND/OR home mechanics getting things wrong.

Edit: yeah I forgot about lack of maintenance as pointed out below

Last edited by steelbytes on Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:12:24 +0000; edited 3 times
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:04:00 +0000

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
Posts: 41692
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
Posts: 41692
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:04:00 +0000 linkquote
steelbytes wrote:
^^ I'd bet the vast majority of ICE car fires are not while the car is in use AND/OR home mechanics getting things wrong.
And I'd bet the majority are down to fuel lines being compromised. Which is usually lack of maintenance.
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:05:52 +0000

Ossessionato
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC 38,000km)
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 2367
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Ossessionato
2019 Supertech (EURO3/APAC 38,000km)
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 2367
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:05:52 +0000 linkquote
jimc wrote:
And I'd bet the majority are down to fuel lines being compromised. Which is usually lack of maintenance.
good point about lack of maintenance
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:08:19 +0000

Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
Joined: Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:44:07 +0000
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
 
Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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Location: Rochester, Minnesota
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 22:08:19 +0000 linkquote
steelbytes wrote:
^^ I'd bet the vast majority of ICE car fires are not while the car is in use AND/OR home mechanics getting things wrong.
In USA it's fuel system leaks, and fuel system leaks caused by accidents. Then electrical fires from what I've read, it's what you would expect.
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 23:09:00 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: Mon, 04 Feb 2013 18:36:51 +0000
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Location: NWAOK
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Thu, 01 Dec 2022 23:09:00 +0000 linkquote
If ICE cars randomly burst into flames just from the act of refueling, gas stations would look a lot different and would require everyone to leave the car while it was being refueled. The pump jockey would be required to dress like a stuntman from Backdraft.
Thu, 01 Dec 2022 23:18:31 +0000

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
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Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Thu, 01 Dec 2022 23:18:31 +0000 linkquote
Motovista wrote:
If ICE cars randomly burst into flames just from the act of refueling, gas stations would look a lot different and would require everyone to leave the car while it was being refueled. The pump jockey would be required to dress like a stuntman from Backdraft.
No-one is suggesting that they do, though. They almost invariably burst into flames while being driven. But rarely when they crash, despite Hollywood insisting they do every time.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 04:50:17 +0000

Grievance Miner
Joined: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:17:10 +0000
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Fri, 02 Dec 2022 04:50:17 +0000 linkquote
jimc wrote:
There's no such thing as foolproof...
Fools buy factory direct eBikes with horrible batteries. No UL or any decent certifications. Charge unattended, charge over worked hot batteries, batteries using low quality BMS, and steel rather than nickel ribbon connectors. Accidents waiting to happen.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 04:53:14 +0000

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
Posts: 41692
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Posts: 41692
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 04:53:14 +0000 linkquote
tomjasz wrote:
Fools buy factory direct eBikes with horrible batteries. No UL or any decent certifications. Charge unattended, charge over worked hot batteries, batteries using low quality BMS, and steel rather than nickel ribbon connectors. Accidents waiting to happen.
I hear you.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 05:00:51 +0000

Grievance Miner
Joined: Wed, 17 Jan 2007 23:17:10 +0000
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Grievance Miner
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Fri, 02 Dec 2022 05:00:51 +0000 linkquote
Bosch and their ilk, $1000 batteries have fewer disasters. Sadly suckers but entire eBikes for $1000. No way can a safe and sane battery be made for sale under $400-$500. Even then, buyer beware.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 16:45:32 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 00:46:39 +0000
Posts: 11035
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2007 LX150 2015 GTS 2013 BV 350
Joined: Fri, 14 Sep 2012 00:46:39 +0000
Posts: 11035
Location: Fond du Lac, Wisconsin
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 16:45:32 +0000 linkquote
I'm curious about the insurance angle. Enough fires and the industry is going to start slapping extra charges on people with battery powered vehicles in their garages.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:12:25 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:12:25 +0000 linkquote
fledermaus wrote:
I'm curious about the insurance angle. Enough fires and the industry is going to start slapping extra charges on people with battery powered vehicles in their garages.
I hope that doesn't happen.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:16:32 +0000

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
Posts: 41692
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 20:16:15 +0000
Posts: 41692
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:16:32 +0000 linkquote
fledermaus wrote:
I'm curious about the insurance angle. Enough fires and the industry is going to start slapping extra charges on people with Lithium-ion battery powered vehicles in their garages.
It's only the Lithium Nickel-Cobalt-Aluminum Oxide (NCA) batteries that are particularly prone to self-immolation. Lithium iron phosphate battery (LFP) batteries are not subject to overheating or self-ignition.
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:23:55 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
2006 GTS 250
Joined: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 00:24:46 +0000
Posts: 10036
Location: KS USA
Fri, 02 Dec 2022 17:23:55 +0000 linkquote
Does Progressive® insure Ebikes?
   

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