OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1769
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1769
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
Because why not right? So I have a set of mismatched cases, it's my first build so if I mess them up it's not the total end of the world. I've read the pros and cons of using them as a set and am going to give it a go and see if they mate up and seal and run. Why not?

First order of business, the clutch side case is 2 port and the flywheel side is 3 port. So I gotta make a decision. Fill the 1/2 port opening or cut the clutch side case to match the 3rd port. There's not much surface on the clutch side so I'd have to have some welding done to go 3 port. I'd also have way more options in the cylinder department. Not sure which way to go. A 177 2 port motor isn't a bad option. Neither is a 3 port though.

To close the 3rd port do I need to actually fill it with weld or jbweld (ugh) or can I just put the gasket over it and it'll be kosher?
Also a smallish piece of the case broke off during shipping. The flywheel covers where the piece broke off though so jbweld for that and it'll be fine I think.
Here's some pictures.
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@fng avatar
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Hooked
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
Joined: UTC
Posts: 242
Location: Cambria, CA
 
Hooked
@fng avatar
1960 Allstate VNA, 1962 VNB
Joined: UTC
Posts: 242
Location: Cambria, CA
UTC quote
This will be interesting.
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4082
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4082
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Done it before with P/PX cases. As long as surfaces match and are flat you usually don't encounter any problems. I'd 3 port the 2 port half...
@gickspeed avatar
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Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Molto Verboso
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
have the clutch side TIG welded. Mill the cylinder gasket area of both sides. enjoy your 3 port cases done right, plenty of cylinder options at this point.
@v_oodoo avatar
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Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9485
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Done it before with P/PX cases. As long as surfaces match and are flat you usually don't encounter any problems. I'd 3 port the 2 port half...
ditto, but two different motors. The nonmatching P200 cases still work just fine, and the originally 2 port motor in the AllState that I cut a 3rd port in, using just JBWeld to fill the voids and pad the cylinder mating surface around the 3rd port. It's been beat hard and still runs strong, but you should get it welded if you can.

Go yeah, three port, in for a dime, etc... And anyway I like that you are daring to rescue these otherwise useless but sweet looking old orphan halves! Lemme know if you need any odd bits.Clap emoticon
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4356
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4356
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Three port for sure. And reed. This cylinder is the direct route from no power to full power.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-quattrini-m1xl-11-172-cc_15046100
If using a 60mm crank it wouldn't even need the cases cut.
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4082
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4082
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
Jack's once again suggesting highly addictive parts to people. BAN HIM!!! ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon
@gickspeed avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Molto Verboso
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
Jack221 wrote:
Three port for sure. And reed. This cylinder is the direct route from no power to full power.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-quattrini-m1xl-11-172-cc_15046100
If using a 60mm crank it wouldn't even need the cases cut.
i've always thought that cylinder would work on a VNA case with a 57mm crankshaft. i don't know of anyone that has done it, but i think it would work okay.
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4356
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4356
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Not tried but I'm also sure it would fit any 3 port small block case. I ran mine on a 57mm stock crank to run it in but the seals started to fail after 500 miles. Even just bolted on (with 30mm & bullet177), it was good for over 70mph every time.

Rebuilt mine and converted it to a 181cc using a 110 rod 60mm crank. It really goes now. Shocked me how well. Is why I keep going on about it. I took pictures but yet to update the thread. PX125 catalysed to Quattrini sleeper (Page 2)

Putting one of these in anything on 8s would be mental. Enough reason for some maniac to do it.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1769
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1769
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
Ok getting started on this finally. I'm stuck on the 3rd floor of our house with Covid so may as well start shopping!

In the time since I posted this thread I've decided to go 2 port for now. I can always weld and cut the third port in the future after all. So I'm going to go the Pinasco 177cc 2 port route. Just trying for something stock-ish. Usable on todays roads but not a race machine. 70mph is not needed on this one. Got one of them already. This is going to be a much more tame build.

I do want to go the electronic ignition route so I have this list started:
Cylinder- Pinasco 177 2 port kit
Carb- Si 20.20
Ignition- VAPE static (do I need a P crank for that?)
Crank- I'm not sure what to go with, suggestions?
Clutch- Cosa? Or should I go a little beefier, not sure beefier is needed but I'm not sure.
Then I need all the other bits and bobs. Any bearing/seals suggestions? Viton I would assume for the seals?
I have a gasket set already.
Then I'll need the gears and what nots. Not sure where to go with that aside from needing 8" wheel gearing.
@gickspeed avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Molto Verboso
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1993
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
FridayMatinee wrote:
Ok getting started on this finally. I'm stuck on the 3rd floor of our house with Covid so may as well start shopping!

In the time since I posted this thread I've decided to go 2 port for now. I can always weld and cut the third port in the future after all. So I'm going to go the Pinasco 177cc 2 port route. Just trying for something stock-ish. Usable on todays roads but not a race machine. 70mph is not needed on this one. Got one of them already. This is going to be a much more tame build.

I do want to go the electronic ignition route so I have this list started:
Cylinder- Pinasco 177 2 port kit
Carb- Si 20.20
Ignition- VAPE static (do I need a P crank for that?)
Crank- I'm not sure what to go with, suggestions?
Clutch- Cosa? Or should I go a little beefier, not sure beefier is needed but I'm not sure.
Then I need all the other bits and bobs. Any bearing/seals suggestions? Viton I would assume for the seals?
I have a gasket set already.
Then I'll need the gears and what nots. Not sure where to go with that aside from needing 8" wheel gearing.
You don't need a P-crank contrary to what is put out on this board. I like the standard 57mm Jasil crankshaft for this cylinder, but you could go with just about anything.

You can use the standard clutch.

22/65 for gearing is best.
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