Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:50 pm

Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
 
Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:50 pm linkquote
Greetings! Scooters are fresh territory for me, but I have been a restoration mechanic for decades, specializing in 60s/70s German cars....so I'm fairly competent with wrenches... but I will undoubtedly be peppering you all with questions as I dig into my new toy.

It's a 1962 VBBT1 150. Original patina, runs and drives great (as far as I can tell)...

So here's the first question: When trying to remove the rear wheel, even with the back of the fender gently raised by a floor jack (super sketchy IMHO) I still cannot get the rear wheel to easily clear the muffler / tail pipe. I really REALLY don't like having to raise it so much, to get the rear wheel out (and this begs the question: "what if I'm out on the road and need to swap a rear wheel / tube?")

Any suggestions for stable lifting points - or tricks from you veterans on getting the rear half of the scooter up off the ground safely and with stability? I've made many steel fixtures for moving disabled cars around my shop, so "building" something isn't out of the question. I just wonder if I'm missing something super simple here!

Will try to upload photos of the critter...if I can figure out how. I fabricated a rear grab bar thingy using my welder the other day, then installed a brand new low seat....and I'm LOVING the overall look so far.

Thanks in advance!

Paul
(Vintage BMW car nerd)




bare steel before primer/paint

Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:49 pm

Hooked
1966 Sprint 150 & PX 200 / 225 and a shed full o shit
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 154
Location: New Zealand
 
Hooked
1966 Sprint 150 & PX 200 / 225 and a shed full o shit
Joined: 15 Aug 2016
Posts: 154
Location: New Zealand
Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:49 pm linkquote
Nice one!

Good job on the rear rack.

Try letting the air out of the tyre for a bit more wriggle room in the first instance. If not, 2 bolts hold the muffler on. Further wriggle room or remove it completely and inspect. You can also then look up the barrel exhaust stub and inspect the piston and bore for scoring etc.

Any oil on the brake drum / shoes will indicate a failed seal here. Common with age and pretty much a consumable wear item.

I just take the pods off mine and lie it over on soft grass. Watch out for petrol spilling from the tank lid (perished seal). Be careful with the handlebar levers and kick starter. Sometimes I'll place old tyres underneath to support the bike a little.

I run 18-20 PSI in the front and 28 - 30 in the rear - this for a 10 inch wheel bike though but prolly the same is ok for 8s.

A good time to check and replace the stand, or rubber feet, if the stand is at all wonky or the bike leans to the side when on it. Check the engine mounts also as these are often knackered with age (the big long bolt that holds the engine in through the swing arm passes through these). The kick start side one usually is toast. A good solid stand and engine mount rubbers do make a world of difference.

For me I'd just fix all the annoying little niggles / bodges to spec and ride it around standard for a while.....If it's too slow look at replacing the top end with something a little more modern.

Good luck and all the best,

P
Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:25 pm

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8837
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '78 P200 E '84 Cosa '91 PK50XL2 '58 AllState '68 Sprint '80 50special and a '66(?) Super125
Joined: 22 Nov 2010
Posts: 8837
Location: seattle/athens
Thu Nov 24, 2022 5:25 pm linkquote
Nice bike, lovely paint and that is a real nice rack you've made for it there!
You have a few ways to deal w/ removing your rear wheel but I'll bet you end up making one of these welded stands which will support it under the motor and balance it well:



Or you can buy one if you want, sources are on this thread all about this common dilemma w/ some good options and suggestions to help you out.
Vespa PX - Changing a flat tyre on the road
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:06 pm

Enthusiast
'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: 08 Sep 2022
Posts: 82
Location: SoCal
 
Enthusiast
'71 Sprint Veloce
Joined: 08 Sep 2022
Posts: 82
Location: SoCal
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:06 pm linkquote
Congrats on the bike! Looks sweet!
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:19 pm

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3284
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62), 2008 Stella (Olive)
Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 3284
Location: Florence, OR
Thu Nov 24, 2022 6:19 pm linkquote
Also, a 2x6 under the center stand will raise the bike up enough to make it easierto remove the rear tire...
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:52 pm

Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4420
Location: That bushfire place
 
Ossessionato
2 matching N.Z. '69 VBC Super, 177cc Racer, VespaCross Bodge, Puch SRA150, Piaggio Zip 100! & others
Joined: 26 May 2013
Posts: 4420
Location: That bushfire place
Thu Nov 24, 2022 7:52 pm linkquote
Firstly: I'm happy that you said '62 VBB, rather than'64 VBB... as I guess many others were also happy once seeing it, specially on 8" wheels.
(If you don't understand that cryptic message, look up "Bodgespotting" for further clarification).

Secondly: welcome to the mad-house!

Thirdly: I'm happy it doesn't appear to be a bodge for once, as that must be a hard reality check for numer New MV Members.

Forthly: please add more photos.
-incl Speedo, just in case

Mostly: from the pics, (& it is likely to be just the angle of the shot), do a quick check of the WHEELBASE... while the RAKE looks about right, make a measurement just in case, as front wheel looks a bit far back (ie. rather common after front has hit something & bent fork back a bit).
Asfar as i can find a 8" VBB should be 1180mm (someone here should be able to clarify that if it's incorrect info).

Lastly: use the "SEARCH" function, even though it's sometimes a bit frustrating, it will have all of your answers already there. Otherwise read the STICKY's.

And back you your question about removing the rear wheel:
Generally it's raining, and I've likely almost/possibly/probably just fallen off due to the rear end attempting to pass the front end, then trying the same pn the other axis... So, if I cannot find something to lift the back, i take off helmet & jacket, sitthem on the ground and push scooter over, so it sits on the (pivoting gracefully over the arch of the helmet, with the soft protection of the jacket to ensure paint remains in amazing condition), unbolt tyre, then force that mofo out.
Then curse while putting new tyre on, as/if there is AIR in it coz that makes the poor clearance issue even worse.
Ohh, then there may be the expansion exhaust to contend with, but that trick if for another day, or another search.

Last edited by SubEtherBASS on Fri Nov 25, 2022 2:14 pm; edited 1 time in total
Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:39 am

Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
 
Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:39 am linkquote
You folks are GREAT! Many ultra thanks for the tips!

The only history I have on this scooter is that I bought it from a collector that shares several friends of mine, and I do trust him to have mindfully freshened up portions of the thing. The only "fluff" (if you can even call it that) were fresh handlebar grips, new front badges, and a saddle seat that was undoubtedly in better shape than the original. Fresh cables, rebuilt gearbox, etc. he was particularly mindful about saving original headmark correct fasteners and such. I am much the same way with my own patina'd survivor cars. I generally prefer "preservation" over "restoration" when practical.

Hopefully I won't wear out my welcome here!

Paul
Wegweiser Classic BMW Services
Portersville PA



Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:55 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Fri Nov 25, 2022 10:55 am linkquote
Looks like a nice, unmolested scooter. The paint should clean up nicely and that rack looks really sharp. I love those boxy old beamers. I'm an ACVW bus nut myself, but dove back into the scooter thing recently with 3 scooters, including a '62 VBB. I had one in the late 80's and have wanted another one ever since.

Welcome and best of luck with your project.
Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:29 am

Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
 
Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:29 am linkquote
I've probably owned 20+ old BMW 2002s... some 80s 3,5,and 6 series cars... but in 35 years ..... the ONLY vehicle I regret selling is my 72 bus. I will never be able to afford another rust free one. The last one was $1400 and had $700 worth of Weber IDFs on it!

The paint is about as clean as it can be. Any more polishing or buffing and l fear I'll burn through it. I DID have some customs off-white paint mixed up to do the wheels... which might be seen as sinful to purists... but I figured I'd give it a shot, and I like the look.

You guys have all been generous and kind. Thank you for the warm welcome! This Vespa matches the patina on my tii about perfectly.



Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:02 pm

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1214
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 2005 70cc Yamaha Vino
Joined: 23 Aug 2020
Posts: 1214
Location: Philadelphia
Fri Nov 25, 2022 6:02 pm linkquote
wegweiser wrote:
I've probably owned 20+ old BMW 2002s... some 80s 3,5,and 6 series cars... but in 35 years ..... the ONLY vehicle I regret selling is my 72 bus. I will never be able to afford another rust free one. The last one was $1400 and had $700 worth of Weber IDFs on it!

The paint is about as clean as it can be. Any more polishing or buffing and l fear I'll burn through it. I DID have some customs off-white paint mixed up to do the wheels... which might be seen as sinful to purists... but I figured I'd give it a shot, and I like the look.

You guys have all been generous and kind. Thank you for the warm welcome! This Vespa matches the patina on my tii about perfectly.
Those early 2002ti's are my all time favorite car. One day I will own one.
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:15 am

Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:15 am linkquote
Going back to you question about the rear wheel and removal: I use one of these rubber tire chocks. Place it on the ground near the engine side floor board with the grooves facing up. Lean the scooter over so that the floor board edge drops into one of the grooves and is supported by the chock. You should be able to pull the wheel/tire now.

Welcome.

PS: Did you get a PA title with your purchase?

https://www.harborfreight.com/solid-rubber-wheel-chock-96479.html?utm_source=google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=18992800240&campaignid=18992800240&utm_content=138952362650&adsetid=138952362650&product=96479&store=&gclid=Cj0KCQiAj4ecBhD3ARIsAM4Q_jEwPdDXGV3cwCrn0fiZw7-vUrhvdON1A71c2Pky9LhemqnkplK9c4gaAlUaEALw_wcB



Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:06 pm

Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
 
Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Sat Nov 26, 2022 6:06 pm linkquote
That's a smart idea... I will undoubtedly weld up some dum, overly wrought / overly thought steel fixture for this purpose...... because winters in western PA are very long and boring.

Interesting that you asked about the title....I'm awaiting one now and should have it in a few weeks.

photo of a wheel housing "in process" for a 1950s 300SL Benz at my old job, for purely gratuitous reasons. I love playing with metal.

Paul



Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:27 am

Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
Sun Nov 27, 2022 3:27 am linkquote
I see the gullwing in the back! What a great job being able to work on those masterpieces.
Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:23 am

Not So Moderator
VNB VSC o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6562
Location: Hustletown, TX
 
Not So Moderator
VNB VSC o9c VMA vbc VSX
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 6562
Location: Hustletown, TX
Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:23 am linkquote
Gorgeous scoot. Looks like it's in good hands!
Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:31 am

Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
 
Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:31 am linkquote
Thanks for the kind words. I've actually had to build TWO gull wings... the most complicated "old car" imaginable... except for maybe French cars. Every nut and bolt under it- turned by yours truly...

Until I take a Vespa apart to visualize how it all "works", I will be a nervous dork however. I'm a visual learner and the motor on this thing (though perhaps simple) is a fantastic and intimidating mystery to me! 😁



Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:33 am

Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
 
Member
150 VBB
Joined: 24 Nov 2022
Posts: 8
Location: Pennsylvania USA
Sun Nov 27, 2022 7:33 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
I see the gullwing in the back! What a great job being able to work on those masterpieces.
It's flattering - being trusted to work on big dollar cars for the obscenely wealthy... but old BMW 2002s are my first love... and they're nearly all I work on now that I have my own shop. I just hope old BMWs don't become too "precious" to enjoy driving. Until the salt hits the road, they're all I drive.
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:07 am

Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: 14 Oct 2016
Posts: 1308
Location: northern New York
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:07 am linkquote
wegweiser wrote:
It's flattering - being trusted to work on big dollar cars for the obscenely wealthy... but old BMW 2002s are my first love... and they're nearly all I work on now that I have my own shop. I just hope old BMWs don't become too "precious" to enjoy driving. Until the salt hits the road, they're all I drive.
The winter salt just eats cars in the northeast. That one trip to Maine was harder on my bus than 25 years of non winter driving. Spent a day washing the undercarriage. My mother has a '99 Ford escort at her house in Florida. It's a time capsule. Photo of the never-detailed engine.



Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:25 am

Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
Sun Nov 27, 2022 8:25 am linkquote
Vespas are very simple mechanically. They were designed to run forever, be abused and maintained by people who have no idea how to maintain. That being said: the good news is they were designed in Italy. Bad news is they were engineered in Italy. If you have the literally hundreds of specialty tools any maintenance is a piece of cake. It gets tricky when you try to do some of the more intricate work with common shop tools.
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:09 am

Hooked
'64 VBB, '74 BMW R75/6 airhead, Bultaco Alpina 250, Lambrettas
Joined: 01 Apr 2017
Posts: 243
Location: Western Mass., USA
 
Hooked
'64 VBB, '74 BMW R75/6 airhead, Bultaco Alpina 250, Lambrettas
Joined: 01 Apr 2017
Posts: 243
Location: Western Mass., USA
Sun Nov 27, 2022 10:09 am linkquote
garncarz wrote:
... It gets tricky when you try to do some of the more intricate work with common shop tools.
Agree, in some cases, but on certain tasks you really can fudge it with common tools (knocking out bearings from heated recess with a common socket, etc).

Keep in mind too that these machines are fiddly with small brittle parts and fasteners, and that everything is easy to strip, so take it easy. I often will stay near the low-end range for torque specs -- e.g. clutch cover bolts. It's not like you're dealing with automotive or tractor wheel lug nuts
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:12 pm

Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Addicted
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 1966 Allstate Blue Badge Small Frame, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401
Joined: 15 Aug 2021
Posts: 670
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
Sun Nov 27, 2022 2:12 pm linkquote
zachyzach wrote:
Agree, in some cases, but on certain tasks you really can fudge it with common tools (knocking out bearings from heated recess with a common socket, etc).

Keep in mind too that these machines are fiddly with small brittle parts and fasteners, and that everything is easy to strip, so take it easy. I often will stay near the low-end range for torque specs -- e.g. clutch cover bolts. It's not like you're dealing with automotive or tractor wheel lug nuts
Yes, the torque wrench is your friend. Don't eyeball it. You know....torque it down until the head snaps off then back it off a quarter turn.
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