Modern Vespa

I see the Autostart indicator light (A), on my 2022 GTS 300 HPE Dashboard. Is there an accessory that can make this possable?
- Or is this a "supernumerary / Redundent", never made it to production. It is just right of the (ABS) indicator Light.

Just asking, if it will be useful, in Vespa's later years.

Steven K.

no.

I'm pretty sure that LED is there for the current GTS125/150 which I think have auto stop/start and use the same dashboard

I see what you mean:
- Vespa Self Start Auto Start Electronic Ign Kit 12V
That was to replace the kick starter, on the vintage Vespas.

Most newer vehicle's have an "Autostart / Auto Start", was Vespa thing on the same line with the (A)?

Robot or someone had said it's for stoplight auto stop/start, an option that was and will be never realized, personally I think it's a ridiculous option, I see it a lot on high $$$ line lower milage, performance autos and SUVs

It's used in every new ICE vehicle (but not all PTWs) in the UK and EU, not just high 'value' ones.
It works very well - you don't even notice it after a while. Note idling a car while stationary is now against the law over there. Saves fuel and reduces emissions.

Oh - and it cannot be turned off permanently.

I see what you mean:
https://motorbikewriter.com/vespa-adds-stop-start-tech-save-fuel/

Inportant to take in mind:Transcribed in the Artical
'Stop-start technology also requires more powerful and expensive batteries and starting system with uprated starter motors, solenoids, alternators and more. All of this adds to the price of the vehicle."

Steven K. - Thank You, for bring this to may attention.

Thank goodness for adding extra tech and shit I can't service/diagnose myself so I can ween out a tiny bit more fuel efficiency from what is already my most fuel efficient vehicle.... Fuck I hate the future so much already.

SOOOOO!!!!
That Vespa 250 IE, is not up for a EV Conversion??
To make it more Energy Efficiant?

(Just Joking)

Steven K.

And this is why we will see more of it. If ICE vehicles are to stay around for a while longer, they will have to become cleaner and more efficient. Idling is the most inefficient part of a ride, with zero gas mileage.

In the UK, the GTS models (125cc or 300cc for us) have the start stop tech, but they haven't added this to the latest Primavera / Sprint 125cc.

I know when they added this to cars, there's a higher electrical load and more wear on the starter.

Most cars keep tabs on the battery and engine temps and only run the start stop tech when everything is balanced. If the engine is too hot, too cold or the voltage is too low, it doesn't switch off.

I can see value for big engined cars sat at traffic lights, but it seems a bit pointless for bikes when we're allowed to filter to the front of the queue in traffic.

Walking and cycling with an analog bicycle save even more 🌍

Amen

It is, and it annoys me immensely. Luckily I can switch it off, but at every start up I have to push that button. I do that automatically by now.
Certainly when hot or cold it is really annoying. The engine goes down but so is the AC or the heating.

My present car is the 5th in a row that has that stop-start. The first was a Mercedes C break 180d from 2012. It is supposed to save fuel but on that first car with the feature I checked the effect on average fuel consumption. Conclusion: no effect.

You guys are living in the future man.

Here it's still 2006: I'm in a big american 5.4 liter V8 engine, 4-speed automatic tranny, everything naturally aspirated like God and nature intended. As few sensors, gizmos, and doodads, as possible. Everything simple. 300,000 km. No catalytic converter. A part gets replaced here and there. They are cheap to replace. No annual inspections. Nothing ever breaks down.

I go in for oil changes. My technicians smile and say "Keep that thing forever." I smile back knowingly. I walk past German car owners burning money in the waiting room garbage bin for warmth while they wait for parts and service. I want to hug them, but I fear if I touch them I may catch their disease. I keep a safe distance.

Interesting. In my car the AC or heating does not switch off along with the engine. Why should it? Seems like a less than ideal implementation.

Because of what's powering your AC or heating... or maybe more appropriately when your engine isn't running, think about what isn't powering your AC or heating.

Your engine turning spins a belt that runs on a pully attached to your alternator, and your alternator turns that mechanical power into electrical power that feeds juice into your battery...

That's why your car can do energy-taxing stuff like power your heated seats while running your air conditioning and blasting your radio all at the same time and your battery doesn't get kicked in the balls and then kneed in the face while it's hunched over.

Now remove the engine spinning the alternator from the equation and what happens?

It's not to say your battery can't carry the heavy load on its own, but the more it has to carry on its own over its lifespan, the shorter that lifespan will be. Humans work the same way.

You'll save at the pump, and then you'll spend at the shop. Luckily new vehicles come with roadside assistance so you'll save for the transport in between.

I'd speculate classic cars, older Vespas and older motorcycles are likely going to be the last vehicles that can't be remotely tracked or electronically shut down by the man or bad guys.

I'm in a bunch of F150 groups and it's all people complaining about their 2018+ F150s having electronics fail on them while commuting to their office jobs, while those of us still daily using our 10-20 year old work trucks for, workin', are having no issues...

Unfortunately most consumers aren't future-thinking, they can't see past right-now conveniences, so manufacturers keep making stuff that caters to these consumers and modern vehicles become less long-term reliable and less owner serviceable...

And then we all collectively say "Gosh, I just caaaaan't believe the cost of living has gotten so sky-high these days!" not realizing that many of the same consumers complaining are the very reason why...

But hey, start/stop features on next year's Vespa model sounds like a really great idea, boy oh boy do we really need that

In 2 years, it will be 2008. Gas prices will spike dramatically, leading to record scooter sales. And Modern Vespa will be a hotbed of activity.

Oh, also: Between gas prices and a near-total economic collapse, trucks sporting big american 5.4 liter V8 engines will become so expensive to drive that they actually go out of style. Briefly.

See: https://www.cars.com/articles/2008-year-end-truck-sales-wrap-up-453724/

Many of us couldn't do our jobs without them. Jobs that motorcyclists and Vespisti depend on, especially when their over engineered vehicles fail them lol

Wow, that was a long read. 😀

Modern cars do just fine keeping the heater, AC or whatever else is electrically powered going while the engine has stopped. My current car has done so without issues for over 100k miles. The car is smart enough to start the engine should that be needed. That isn't very often at a standstill.

Oh, I have a truck too, albeit a V6. I have had to haul enough broken scooters across the US that having a truck has been worthwhile. But still, in 2008, trucks were pretty financially painful to fill up.

you'll take my HP dual point distributor with a cable tach drive when you pry it and the keys to my 5.9L gas guzzling auto-mo-cheen from my cold, dead, hands.

WoW!!!-WoW!!
Thank's for the Help!

Glad I did not ask about Sidecare's, on a Modern Vespa GTS 300 HPE..

Steven K.

Did someone say sidecar?

If the engine is not running the waterpump stops and there is no circulation of water. So that bit of hot water in the heater cools down.
And the compressor is not working, so it does not take long and the AC is down.

It is more simple. The waterpump and the AC compressor are mechanically belt driven by the crankshaft. Engine off means no water circulation and no AC compressor.

Not in my Hyundai.

giallo, PeterCC -- you guys are talking past each other. Maybe I can clarify, or maybe I will just make things worse.

Generally speaking, cars with internal combustion engines use mechanically-driven AC compressors (literally driven by a pulley from the spinning engine). For heat, they generally steal some heat from the engine coolant (which would need to be cooled down by the radiator anyway). This is how it's been done for many decades. In the case of heat, it's probably been done this way for 100 years or so.

Cars that shut down automatically at a stoplight either lose AC and heat while the engine is stopped, or they must take some fairly drastic measures to make up for the loss of the mechanisms they have traditionally used. Specifically, they have to use AC and heat that is powered electrically instead of mechanically. AC compressors in particular, though, are extremely power-hungry, and so you'd typically not run that solely off of a standard 12v car battery.

If a car can run AC and heat while the engine is stopped, it either has a much larger battery, or it can only do so for a very short time. Likely as not, a car that can run those systems with the engine off is a hybrid, and has an onboard battery larger than a standard 12v car battery.

It's unlikely you'd find a non-hybrid internal-combustion-engine car that can run AC and heat without the engine running. It's not out of the question, and I'm sure someone will point one out just to prove me wrong, but that would be the exception to the rule.

Electric cars are in a similar boat here -- they lack spinning engines at all, and so AC and heat must be provided electrically. Electric cars have an advantage, though -- a battery so large that you can run the AC for hours at a time without running out of juice.

I hope that makes things clearer.

That happened already in the seventies in Europe.
Before let's say 1972 the big American cars had high prestige here in Europe.
Driving such a car really meant something.

But the combination of:

- the fast increasing fuel prices since 1973: the first "oil crisis"
- the introduction of the catalyst at a time the then carburetted engine technology was not able to cope with it, what killed most of the horses in those engines
- the 55 NSL that killed the already poor road capabilities of American cars on European roads

was the end for these cars over here.

Thanks, Jess.

Indeed it is a matter or what type of engine system your car has.

Having owned hybrids, yes that's how that works. In my estimation that makes them a win win, not as efficient as electric vehicles, but cheaper and much more efficient than pure internal combustion engined vehicles.

And what started the thread is the discussion of so-called mild hybrid ICE engines in Vespas. Same technologies, just no electric drive motor.

Just an FYI - If anyone should want to disable their auto start/stop feature without having to use dealer tools, on F150s you just add an extra brake light plugged into from your 4 pin or 7 pin hookup, and the system thinks you're towing a trailer and keeps the vehicle running.

In Europe it is different.

Most cars over here are diesels.
Hybrids are typically with a gasoline engine and are about as efficient as a simple diesel engine but cost more. The hybrid technology can sort of bridge the gap in efficiency between a gasoline engine and a diesel engine, but not more.

Not an interesting offer in Europe.

Random fact: Right now diesel (which used to always be about the same price or cheaper than gas) is almost 50% more expensive than 87 octane here in Canada for reasons I haven't bothered to look up... so diesel's greater fuel efficiency doesn't necessarily translate into better fuel economy here at the present moment.

Stay tuned next week's episode of "Who knows, anything can happen"

VW probably single-handedly killed the US consumer diesel market for a generation. Obviously, diesel is still quite useful in specific segments (trucks, for instance) but I suspect nobody wants diesel cars in the US at the moment.

Not that diesel cars were ever really popular in the US, except with the hardcore europhiles.

They're no longer popular in Europe, though they still remain in the majority. With the advent of more and more ULEZ (Ultra Low Emissions Zones) in towns and cities, they just make no sense anymore though they used to be considered the most economical to drive.

Hybrids and EVs are slowly making inroads, but the cost of living crisis all over Europe has made buying or leasing new cars out of the question for many who were previously considering it.

Indeed. Diesel engines are relatively low in fuel consumption and durable, but rather ugly in their tail pipe emissions.

They are definitely not a viable alternative to hybrid or electric cars when it comes to reducing the impact of personal transportation on our environment.

Our gasoline bill is super low with our fleet of Vespas, Prius, analog bicycles, sneakers