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Just to put a finer point on it, when the year appears first, there is very little latitude for interpretation. Year first is an unambiguous sign that the format is YYYY-MM-DD.
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Working well for me on opera thanks Jess.
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jimc wrote:
That depends on what you and the recipient have agreed. But 2022-12-01 is the ISO standard for the 1st of December 2022, and needs no other party's agreement.
I don't disagree with you, ISO8601 is great from a high level industry point of view. Most human beings aren't programmed and schools aren't teaching ISO8601 where I live to Kindergarten kids yet. Until that's happens in every country in the world it will be an issue.
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Christopher_55934 wrote:
Until that's happens in every country in the world it will be an issue.
please give even a single example of a country/language/culture that uses yyyy-dd-mm. with references, I'm really intrigued
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steelbytes wrote:
please give even a single example of a country/language/culture that uses yyyy-dd-mm. with references, I'm really intrigued
I can name one, though I am relying on internet lore and Wikipedia for reference: Kazakhstan.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Date_format_by_country

As always, there's a notable footnote here: they appear to use YYYY.DD.MM, rather than the ISO YYYY-MM-DD (note the periods instead of dashes).
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steelbytes wrote:
please give even a single example of a country/language/culture that uses yyyy-dd-mm. with references, I'm really intrigued
I know of none, dates and time seem to be working on android tablet running silk. Just needed a few responses to test it.
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jess wrote:
I can name one, though I am relying on internet lore and Wikipedia for reference: Kazakhstan.
lol, well done
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steelbytes wrote:
lol, well done
Never underestimate how utterly fucked programming for time is. From every angle, in every way, and across every country. It is by far one of the gnarliest subjects I've dealt with during my career.
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jess wrote:
Never underestimate how utterly fucked programming for time is. From every angle, in every way, and across every country. It is by far one of the gnarliest subjects I've dealt with during my career.
I hear ya.

personal favourite is Samoa skipping a whole day in 2011
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-30/samoa-skips-friday-in-time-zone-change/3753350
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I really don't understand why it's a problem for a website hosted by an American to show an American date format when viewed on an American computer.

I can't imagine anyone being upset at seeing a UK date format on a .co.uk forum. Also, I can't imagine anyone being upset at seeing "Dec 1, 2022" in the byline of an American news article.

"Dec 1, 2022" is completely unambiguous, regardless of anyone's preferences for {day,month} order. With respect, the benefits of having the date and time displayed accurately no matter where in the world you signin from vast outweigh one guy's preferences to have a literal time formatting preference in your profile.

On the big list of things worth having an argument about, or the big list of tweaks worth making on a website, customizing the date display seems like it ought to be at the very bottom. I'd say, ship this and move on to something more meaningful.
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mayorofnow wrote:
I really don't understand why it's a problem for a website hosted by an American to show an American date format when viewed on an American computer.
because I never known where a site is developed (.com suffix has zero relevance to this) but much more importantly I don't know if the site adapts is display to my local browser/computer settings as many do but many don't. It's a random guess as a user. Maybe as an american the majority of what you read is american so there is no difference for you - that ain't the case for me and what I read.
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mayorofnow wrote:
I really don't understand why it's a problem for a website hosted by an American to show an American date format when viewed on an American a Chinese computer.
FTFY

At least the words are in a language I understand, rather than Chinese.
Quote:
On the big list of things worth having an argument about, or the big list of tweaks worth making on a website, customizing the date display seems like it ought to be at the very bottom. I'd say, ship this and move on to something more meaningful.
That's fair enough. It's raised some interesting points in the process though.
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23:12 as I post this in sunny Ceredigion Wales
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mayorofnow wrote:
On the big list of things worth having an argument about, or the big list of tweaks worth making on a website, customizing the date display seems like it ought to be at the very bottom.
So you've never met Jim?

ROFL emoticon
mayorofnow wrote:
I'd say, ship this and move on to something more meaningful.
I am leaning (in the last few hours) toward the solution being "good enough". It's not perfect, but on the whole it solves more problems than it generates, and I think that's a win, albeit a marginal one.

I'm currently taking the opportunity to straighten how the forum deals with converting dates and times more completely than my first pass did, as it's a bit of a mess. Straightening bad code is fairly therapeutic for me, so it's the perfect rainy-day-while-I-am-sick activity.

I may offer a single option in the Profile preferences, specifically for date style. The standard choices that javascript understands are short, medium, long, and full. Seems like a reasonable concession.
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steelbytes wrote:
Maybe as an american the majority of what you read is american so there is no difference for you - that ain't the case for me and what I read.
I'm sure I do the same test you do - look at the post time and a local clock to see if it's displayed in my time or in some server's time.

In any case, dates with a spelled out month are unambiguous.
jimc wrote:
FTFY

At least the words are in a language I understand, rather than Chinese.
I know you're trying to be pedantic, but I'm talking about where the computer is localized for. Since your profile is in California, I'm presuming your keyboard layout is American, and that your computer therefore makes American assumptions about how to show you stuff.
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^^^^
Sounds like a good resolution.
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mayorofnow wrote:
I know you're trying to be pedantic, but I'm talking about where the computer is localized for. Since your profile is in California, I'm presuming your keyboard layout is American, and that your computer therefore makes American assumptions about how to show you stuff.
Jim is actually British English (Jim, did I get that right?), and only lives in America grudgingly because he met a wonderful American lady on one of our Italian scooter tours. I wouldn't put it past him to have an ISO keyboard instead of an ANSI one.
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steelbytes wrote:
I hear ya.

personal favourite is Samoa skipping a whole day in 2011
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-30/samoa-skips-friday-in-time-zone-change/3753350
Meh…

September 1752…

Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
............1 2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
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znomit wrote:
Meh…

September 1752…

Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
............1 2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
thankfully I haven't had to deal with dates in that century in my work unlike 2011
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jess wrote:
Jim is actually British English (Jim, did I get that right?), and only lives in America grudgingly because he met a wonderful American lady on one of our Italian scooter tours.
Quote:
I wouldn't put it past him to have an ISO keyboard instead of an ANSI one.
I did, until it became too worn out - the replacement was a US keyboard. However, I swap back to UK keyboard layout every now and then, and sometimes a Greek one.
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steelbytes wrote:
personal favourite is Samoa skipping a whole day in 2011
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-12-30/samoa-skips-friday-in-time-zone-change/3753350
Only one day?

There's the time 10 days vanished from the calendar. What's worse is that not all countries applied the 10 days at the same time, so it could be one day in country A and an entirely different day in country B.
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znomit wrote:
Meh…

September 1752…

Su Mo Tu We Th Fr Sa
............1 2 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
I see you already alluded to what I just posted, and I was too thick to realize it. Well played.
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ok, now that we've had arguments about dates, can we please argue about spelling? eg Favourites vs Favorites Razz emoticon
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steelbytes wrote:
ok, now that we've had arguments about dates, can we please argue about spelling? eg Favourites vs Favorites Razz emoticon
No.
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steelbytes wrote:
ok, now that we've had arguments about dates, can we please argue about spelling? eg Favourites vs Favorites Razz emoticon
No should it be tire or tyre?
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Oh, just so you know your going to ruin my it's 02:00 in England why are they up?
⚠️ Last edited by Christopher_55934 on UTC; edited 1 time
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No it was 24:00:00 rapidly becoming 00:00:00. (UK is only 8 hours ahead of PST, 5 hours ahead of EST).

They're still up as they're just back from the pub - last orders at 23:20, bar closes at 23:30, then it's just drinking up time until the last person is firmly encouraged to depart.
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jimc wrote:
No it was 24:00:00 rapidly becoming 00:00:00. (UK is only 8 hours ahead of PST, 5 hours ahead of EST).
It does become confusing when discussing sunrise and sunset times for the Northern Hemisphere - the latest sunrise in the US is the Saturday before the clocks fall back in November, but the latest sunrise in the RotW is in early January.

However we're all coming up to the earliest sunset - 2022-12-07 - various times depending on Longitude.
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After covering all the obvious dates I could think of, I did a search of the code base to see what I had left. There are still 96 instances of the old-style create_date() function in the code, and I likely need to address all of them.

Crikey.
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jess wrote:
After covering all the obvious dates I could think of, I did a search of the code base to see what I had left. There are still 96 instances of the old-style create_date() function in the code, and I likely need to address all of them.

Crikey.
'kin 'ell.

A sunnier day tomorrow.
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Anyhoo
How are things shaping up for 03:14:07 on 19 January 2038?
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znomit wrote:
Anyhoo
How are things shaping up for 03:14:07 on 19 January 2038?
You mean December 13th, 1901?

Yeah. Mostly out of my hands. It's first dependent on the OS (linux, in our case) and secondarily on PHP. I might have to expand the database by a digit or two, but that's about all I should need to do. None of the PHP code that runs the website cares about the number of bits in an integer.
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Wasn't Kasachstan* the country where months were named after the sons and daughters of the supreme leader?


*This should get converted automagically to the transliteration of your locale.
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Der Blechfahrer wrote:
Wasn't Kasachstan* the country where months were named after the sons and daughters of the supreme leader?
In what era?
Der Blechfahrer wrote:
*This should get converted automagically to the transliteration of your locale.
In what fevered dream of advanced software?
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jess wrote:
I tehea wa?

I roto i te aha moe kirika o te pūmanawa matatau?
Penei!
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I'm down to 36 old-style date references in the code. If it were just a simple search-and-replace, I'd be done now -- but any page that gets a new style date also needs to have a snippet of javascript added to it, so that's slowing me down.

And, of course, any time I look at random corners of the project that I haven't looked closely at in some time, I see things that need fixing. Or deleting.

I'll continue tomorrow.
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jimc wrote:
However we're all coming up to the earliest sunset - 2022-12-07 - various times depending on Longitude.
I would have got that wrong - I'd presumed the solstice had the earliest sundown.
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...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Sorry, it was of course Türkmenistan, where months were named in honour of the Türkmenbaşy in 2002.
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Der Blechfahrer wrote:
Sorry, it was of course Türkmenistan, where months were named in honour of the Türkmenbaşy in 2002.
Fascinating! And horrifying!

I just read the wikipedia article on the subject: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2002_renaming_of_Turkmen_months_and_days_of_week

Sounds like they eventually came to their senses:
Quote:
Four years after the change, Niyazov died in 2006. On April 23, 2008 it was reported that the cabinet of ministers of Turkmenistan discussed restoring the old names of the months and days of week.[2] The old names were finally restored in July 2008.
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