Modern Vespa

I am happy with yyyy-mm-dd, as it sorts beautifully. But as an American I will fight to support the choices, however smart they may be, my country has made in dating and measuring. #Save mmddyyyy!

By the way, Jess, I like the thread title font you are currently using. I could read the titles without my cheaters!

UPDATE: I have pushed a ridiculous number of changes to the main server. Some of the changes might even work correctly.

I have eliminated all use of old-style dates for all but a few very obscure corners of the site. The new dates should be formatted by your browser, and displayed in your local timezone. Notably, the server no longer has any idea what timezone you are located in. It's entirely up to your browser.

I've also added an option in your profile to select the date style. Note that this is really just a measure of how compact the date is, from strictly numeric to fully-spelled-out words with the day of the week prepended. I don't have any control of the actual underlying format, I only get to hint your browser that you want a short, medium, long, or full date format.

As per usual, if you see a date or time that seems to be formatted weirdly, let me know here in this thread.

time is still in 24hours on android

Is 24 hour time considered regionally appropriate in your region?

nope.

and all apps that I use on my phone do show 12 hour

It's a function of the browser, not Android. Is this Brave? Do all browsers behave the same on your phone?

yes brave. Chrome does the same (logged to MV in both browsers). I'm not surprised as Brave is built on Chromium on Android (and Win10 but not iOS)

Well, it's getting that setting from somewhere, and it's definitely not MV. Are there any browser settings that relate?

nothing in the settings available in the ui and couldn't find anything in brave://flags/ The language settings in both the phone and brave are correctly set to english(australia)

I'm digging through the Brave support forum. Hang tight.

Okay, I've pushed a change to the server that possibly, maybe, if we're lucky, forces time to 12 hour format. I'm not 100% it will work in your case, and I'm not 100% sure it won't biff a bunch of browsers I haven't tested on. The exact format setting isn't supposed to be compatible with the generalized date and time style hints that I am using.

Let me know if that works or not.

I now get am/pm but also get a leading zero

A commonly mistaken assumption. The Solstice is when the Sun reaches its maximum minimum height in the sky (IYSWIM) so 'stands still' (hence the name) and is the shortest day. The days might well seem to start getting longer beforehand though, because the sunset gradually begins to happen later.

I've investigated a few more options, combining different style parameters in the hopes of getting something sane and rational. No such luck. Most of the configurations make my own browser barf, so I'm relatively certain that other browsers are likely to be equally unhappy.

I believe I have taken this as far as I can possibly take it, and have foisted a 12 hour clock on all users in the process. I'm afraid there's nothing left to try.

Ultimately, the leading zero is a decision your browser is making. I don't know why it thinks that's appropriate, but I certainly don't see that behavior in Safari, and I don't see that behavior in Chrome for MacOS -- so either it's a Brave thing, or maybe an Android thing, but it's out of my hands regardless.

Sorry, man.

Bloody hell - what on earth does 02:55 pm mean? That's not a standard time in any system! And most of the world doesn't use a 12 hour clock.

Not impressed, sorry.

No good deed goes unpunished.

How many more days should I keep at this problem?

Heh.

I've now spent far more time trying to find a DateTime that I can understand at a glance than I'd have spent in a decade or two of changing the timezone twice a year in my profile...

It's worse than I first thought.

If I use English (UK) in my browser, I can get the 02/12/2022 date order, but I then have to suffer a 12hr clock with the meaningless leading zeros.

If I use English (US) in my browser, I can get a sensible-looking 12hr clock (but I actually want a 24hr one) but the date gets the 12/02/2022 treatment.

So I have to select a different type of date format (which I don't want) in order to avoid the senseless leading zeros.

AARRRGH!

I'm not surprised that people are upset about 12 vs 24 hour time, even if I think that all people who use 24 hour clocks are secretly masochists pretending that using 24 hour time makes them more adult-like. Except for people in the military, who are quite up-front about being masochists.

I guess I'm a little surprised at the level of objection to leading zeros, though.

I'm working on (sigh) yet another user setting for 12 vs 24 hour time. There is literally nothing I can do about the leading zeros, though. Take it up with your browser and/or OS vendor. My browser doesn't do that.

Knowing that someone is posting at 3am their time gives some insight into why they are being so dumb.

i saw this while searching MV earlier today

And its safest just to assume it's perpetually 3am in Australia.

Though it's (AFAIK) all of Europe and most other places in the world apart from North America. But, but, but they just don't exist for a 12hr clock. Ever. Do you ever say it's Oh Four p.m. (or O'clock) ? Many, many thanks for persevering with the Aegean stables task you have set yourself. My browser would give me a 24hr clock if MV somehow didn't interfere with that...

Blame steelbytes for having a different browser defect.

I feel a bit guilty for whinging so much - but from my POV all was dandy before the DST change 'needed' to be automated...

The fact that the server doesn't automatically adjust user time zones for DST has been repeatedly pointed out -- including, if I'm not mistaken, by yourself. It is a never-ending source of friction.

Also, I should point out that making users format dates using PHPs date formatting rules is pretty damn user-hostile. It might be fine for you (and me, even), but it is impenetrable to most. It's not 1987, you know?

Testing

This is Dec 2 2022 at 1904

There is now an option in your user profile to set the time format, with the choices of automatic, 12 hour, or 24 hour.

Automatic means that you'll let your browser decide. It is the default for all users, and will work just fine for many. If for some reason your browser doesn't make the right choice, you can force the time to be in either 12 or 24 hour format.

Note that this will not alleviate leading zeros in 12-hour time. As near as I can tell, the leading zeros are a browser or possibly an OS defect.

Bloody brilliant.

Huge thanks for accommodating all us outliers as well as those who wouldn't care two hoots anyway.

I think I owe you a bottle...

I'm quite sure it's the other way around. Maybe a hostage exchange?

Going Dutch over a meal sounds good.

I was thinking of bottles as hostages, but a meal works as well

I didn't know I wanted this until you pushed it. Many thanks!

Check for a PM...