Modern Vespa

it's an entirely different cylinder, the transfers are totally redesigned and it has a 3rd port in the barrel and the piston is different. you can look at the photos and see the difference. it's miles ahead of the stock piece, regardless of the number of ports in the case.

As Greasy noted, there should be a grommet on the hole where the cowl pin sits in the frame. Instead, you can see that there's a heavy skim coat of body filler that's chipped over time. The curve of the frame inside the motor also looks like it has a heavy skim of filler and the paint just has a certain "look" to it.

This is frequently a sign of a questionable restoration job (look at Bodgespotting to learn more about how bad it can be (but hopefully isn't)).

As long as I get the power from a 177cc and stuff works I don't mind owning a Bodge bike. I guess the grommets or only needing one grommet I can get from SIP or scooterwest.

Engine number

Poor work done here and brittle rubber cracking off

more of the frame

it'll be loads better than a stock barrel.

one thing to keep in mind is that with a bodge it's all the little things that make them difficult. you can put a kit on it and it won't run right because of a whole host of things that are incorrect, homemade, bandaid fixed, wore the F out or just flat ass wrong.

also, I've found that any time you open a bodge motor, it lets all the magic out. they never seem to run again.

Now are these two different?

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-pinasco-177-cc_80510000

https://www.scooterwest.com/pinasco-2-port-177cc-performance-kit-pin-2port.html

The one from scooterwest cuts in at the top studs.

If this a bodge, you'll be amazed at the resourcefulness that went into it.
They're works of art.

But these bikes weren't put together to be ridden.

huh? what do you mean "cuts in at the top studs"?

AFAIK pinasco only sells one 2 port 177 kit

SIP Pinasco 177cc 2-port kit

scooterwest Pinasco 177cc 2-port kit

There's more surface area between the bolt hole and the transfer port on the SIP kit.

Same cylinder. That is a gasket you're seeing...

Oh ok

Looks like this Pinasco 177 kit is the only one that bolts straight on to your old style cases.
If you are changing to a PX taper crank be sure to buy a 60mm stroke. And if it is a bodge hope for the best but expect the worst inside the motor.
If it were mine, I would strip the motor then decide on cylinder type. Gickspeed could easy match it to a VMC.

Splashy, I found the bottleneck on my Sprint 150 to be the old standard exhaust. The header pipe was skinny as. The box was small and had prolly years of carbon build-up too. When it finally cracked I put a standard PX150 one on it (because I had one lying around). Kept original carb jetting. Went way better. At 70,000 km a crank bearing started to spin requiring cases split etc. I didn't go the kit route. Original piston and bore was well and truly slappy too but it still started easy and ran fine. Rebore and oversize 150cc Meteor piston made it run, and sound (quiet), like a new one.

If you kit this bike you'll likely hit the same bottleneck if you have the old original exhaust so you will prolly wish to get a better one. How about starting just with a modern exhaust and seeing if that does the trick for you like it did for me? There are "BigBox" options available now, that didn't exist when my exhaust broke. that may be worth considering. This is assuming your existing top end is ok and the bikes actually goes. Maybe new rings and a hone if measurements depict it is within spec?

The front brake and suspension on these bikes is less than ideal for going warp factor anyway IMHO. A bit more low down torque, and a few more RPM, did the trick for me and it's fine in city traffic from the lights and ok on the motorway in the "slow lane" or take the "B" roads on longer trips and cruise it.

Well that's just my 150 Sprint experience and hope it helps.

Cheers,
PC

Let's see pics of the entire bike.

2 port to 100% VMC match.

It can be done .. . .but i personally would just stick with a plug & play 2 port 177.

front shot

Now what does a PX taper crank look like?

Is there a yellow center stand boot on this bike?

yellow boot

About to buy a torque wrench, what is the amount of torque for a Pinasco 177cc on the head nuts?

Forget the nuts and torque specs for now. Yellow booties = SEA bodge (bondo already cracking on mudguard also confirms it). I'd split the engine first before strapping on an expensive-ish kit...

11~13 lb/ft but I would buy an lb/in torque wrench in 1/4" size, it'll be far more accurate.

quite a bit narrower and less bulky than that of a PX. the thread at the end is noticeably smaller and a touch longer.

M10 vs M12

side by side, they're unmistakeable

If you do find the engine is generally servicable and happy with the frame, then this is the hybrid crank. You'll need a PX flywheel, stator, CDI etc. but they don't need to be new.

https://www.scooter-center.com/en/crankshaft-mazzucchelli-racing-rotary-valve-60mm-stroke-px-flywheel-taper-vespa-sprint150-vlb1t-gl150-vla1t-gt125-vnl2t-gtr125-vnl2t-vnb-vba-vbb-t4-super-7676246

Just bought the Pinasco 2 port 177cc, it came with the metal gasket, but do I need one from the top of the block to the aluminium head?

no, it installs just the same as a stock piece.

I'd lap both the barrel and head prior to installation. a smear of sealant is always a good idea as well-- both on the base and the head

Splashwave:
- with two strokes - you control the "power band" by the "port timings". Port timing is related to when the piston passes the holes in the wall of your cylinder.
- that "base gasket" you note - will have an effect on your port timings. The thicker the gasket, the higher the timings, the higher the power band. Did your cylinder come with more than one base gasket?
- go to YouTube and google "measure squish with solder". example I like to use a razor blade to cut the solder so that it has a round non squished tip.

The answer to your question about a head gasket - will be based on what squish you are aiming for. perhaps the kit has a recommended amount. IDK.

It came with only one metal gasket

CM, I understand where you're coming from here but the way I'm looking at this it would seem that any type of extracurricular activity is beyond the scope of this project.

I'm thinking OP is going P-n-P here, especially given the provenance of the motor and the line of questions.

personally, I'd forgo any deviations other than simply installing the kit.

naturally, you'll want to check and handle the criticals: ring gap, piston clearance, squish*, chamfer the ports and piston, clean and inspect everything, lap the barrel and head, heat cycle and retorque, set the timing and re-jet.

* on the squish I'd give it the ol' kajit house of wares performance division hairy eyeball squish test (looks good-- ship it!)

k I just received my torque wrench so I'll be working on it tomorrow or sometime this week and see where I get.

don't be afraid to ask questions. remember to use the search function, a lot of this has been covered in depth and there's a wealth of information on it...

and for the love of all that is holy, if nothing else, chamfer your ports!!

good luck!

Well to go back to the bigger job for modifying port timings, is there a Pinasco 177cc 2 port data like sheet that will tell me port timing (not ignition) to do with intake and exhaust?

Short answer is no, there's no data sheet that tells you what your port timings should be. Port timings can be modified (within certain limits) to bring out different characteristics depending on how you want the engine to perform. It's equal parts art and science. There are some good books out there on tuning 2 stroke engines if you're interested. Lots of shared knowledge here on the forum on what modifications produce what result.

Generally speaking raising the cylinder (and the ports) puts the power band at a higher RPM range. The intake and exhaust ports of the cylinder can also be enlarged to allow for the more efficient (or earlier) transfer of fuel and exhaust. Lengthening the rotary pad opening and cutting the crank back a few degrees is also a common way to allow more mixture to be drawn into the crankcase and boost performance. There's a whole slew of other tuning tips if you want to start going down that route.

You're limited to some extent by your 2-port case. The transfers in the case really need to be enlarged or a 3d port added to get any really big performance gain. As mentioned it can be done with JB Weld if you're not interested in having the cases welded.

All that said, my two cents would be to just bolt the kit on and see how it feels for now.

Good one, maaaaate. Quick progress!

I'm with just bolt it on as Greasy suggests. And consider some exhausty-thing like this to get the most out of the kit without messing with port timing: https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-exhaust-sip-road-20_24173000?q=sip%20road there are other brands but they all pretty much do the same thing.

Someone will chime in regarding upjetting your carb any moment now, I can feel it in my bone......the instructions that came with the kit might (should) discuss this (and you'll prolly want a little bit more too for an upgraded exhaust - so maybe order a selection). I wouldn't recommend leaving the jetting as you found it (who knows what is in there?). It's not difficult to change-out jets but it is usually necessary.

Cheers,

PC

EDIT: Best to check exhaust fitment for Sprint standard barrel vs. Pinasco.

It's not difficult to change-out jets but it is usually necessary....

Yeah when I got the bike a new carb was put in (20/20 SPACO) and the guy gave me the old original Dell'Orto. When I first rode it 3rd and 4th gear was bogging. I then put the jet from the original carb in and it runs now perfect. So yeah I know to go higher jetting for these upgrades.