Modern Vespa

I strongly disagree with Robot's / Scooterwest's choice to describe the 2023 as HPE2

reasons: the 2023 is available as a 125. Also of course the term HPE refers to the engine which has not changed since the Euro5 HPE.

Fun fact: Piaggio's app (iOS and Android) calls it MY2022 not 2023, which of course just adds to the naming confusion.

even GTS2.0 would be a better name than HPE2

just my 2cents that I had to give

Should be "The not wobbly one".

is it that different that it requires a new name...or is it just another model of year??? why give it a new name if it has only minor updates?

an unambiguous name is needed for discussions in forums like this and also for listing descriptions for parts on a website.

example complications:

buying a GTS 125 in January 2022 vs a GTS 125 in December 2022. What name is that? Neither HPE or HPE2 makes sense here yet they have notable differences in brakes and shocks or discussing replacing the horn cover with an aftermarket part etc.

or here in Australia the new model is not yet available. My local dealer is guessing maybe mid next year. So if I did buy a GTS300 today if would get confusing if I posted here saying "how do I do xxx to my 2022 GTS300"

HPE2? That sounds like a new type of virus.

Some of the reviews I saw referred to the 2023 as HPE+ as there are tweaks to it including the removal of the mechanical speed limiter so it reaches higher speeds and according to some runs smoother.

to revise this ... I think this is the list of the versions of the GTS300 in order

GTS300 original
GTS300 ABS
GTS300 ESS suspension
GTS300 no ESS
GTS300 HPE
GTS300 HPE Euro5 (different exhaust)
GTS300 new brakes and suspension etc

so maybe GTS300 7.0

this still misses the point of the GTS 125 also getting the updates

Wobblegate had me a tad bit concerned before I picked up a 2018 GTS but after riding, no big deal not scary at all, even with a loose almost no grip decelerating.
Also learned at an early age to keep my hands, at least one on the bars with a good grip at all times.

Suspension updates that are on available on the 2023 GTS 125/150 but it doesn't have the HPE engine it has the iGet 3 valve engine. The term HPE is specific to the GTS 300 to distinguish it from the 2019 and earlier models with the Quasar engine. The GTS 125/150 has the iGet engine like the Sprint and Primavera so I don't see a conflict in referring to the 300 GTS as either HPE2 or HPE+.

You may have a point that the GTS 125/150 needs something to distinguish the suspension and braking changes from prior models but that's a different issue than HPE vs HPE2 or HPE+.

yes but no.

Scooterwest describing a part on their website as being for the HPE2/+ suggests it doesn't apply to the new GTS125. But this would be a poor description for parts such as the new horn cover or brake pads as they would fit the new 125

any change to the term HPE is misleading as it's a term for the engine which has not changed.

etc.

I agree robot and his cabal should be put under surveillance

The smaller displacement wobbly bikes aren't sold in the US.

How about HPE Stable. That makes the first one HPE Beta.

lol

But still missing the point about the 125

My understanding it he 2023 has been tweaked allowing the 2023 HPE to no longer have the mechanical speed limiter with a higher top end and possibly a bit more torque. So HPE ihas changed, though clear how much would be up for debate but there are some changes or it would still have the mechanical speed limiter. The US doesn't get the GTS 125/150 so Robot probably didn't consider it in his naming. Ironically the HPE+ nomenclature I've seen was European press. Do they get the GTS 125/150 where you are? Personally, if I was buying a 150 it would most likely be a Sprint or possibly the Primavera Picnic but I'd have zero interest in a large frame GTS with the iGet engine.

As I'm not an American I personally don't take an American centric view. Guess that's my point in this post.

Anyway to continue:

The 2023 125 is available in for example the UK. Here in Australia the 150 pre-2023 is currently available. Both of these examples are from a quick check on Vespa's website. So in the English speaking world (eg on this forum) there are notable places that don't just have the 300. So calling all 2023 GTS as HPE/2/+ is wrong to me.

The max power and torque at the same. I checked these specs just now. The speed limiter is simply a number in the ECU firmware. I don't personally see the tiny lift in the limit as a change worth mentioning (yes this in an opinion that others may disagree with). So I don't feel the HPE engine has changed.


Yes these are opinions but I feel well enough founded in logic that suggesting picking a clearer term than HPE2 would be a good idea.

Robot should be reviewing the VXL too then?

I gotta say, they were very helpful when I ordered my big bore kit as my exact model wasn't sold in the US, they checked it was the same as the 946 kit.

not suggesting he should review models not sold in the US. Just to use a term that isn't illogical outside of the US

Well I don't see that lumping the IGet 125/150 in with the 300 is logical or much sense either even in markets that get both. The two may share a body but the performance is considerably different. So IMHO the use of HPE, HPE 2 or HPE+ simply differentiates the 300 from the 125/150 when talking about a GTS. As I said maybe the 125/150 suspension and whatever other changes needs it's own shorthand name.

While this is an international forum as long as someone can read/write English like it or not it is US centri and tends to focus on models available in the US.

How about HPE Two then? You apparently didn't get the memo that we really don't care about anything that doesn't happen in the US. If Puerto Rico or Guam got a special model that we couldn't get, we wouldn't care about that either, because most of us don't know they are both part of the US. We need American subtitles to understand what they're saying in Canadian movies and TV shows. Not that we watch them, but if we wanted to watch them, we'd remake them first. That's just how we roll.

yeah, I noticed

How about Vespa GTS CFC?





...





CFC = Cheap Fake Chrome

Logic!?! You're in the wrong forum, dude.

Robot is addressing their clientele, which are for the most part composed entirely of Americans. I'm not surprised he is speaking from an American perspective, and honestly I'm kind of surprised you're surprised at that.

But if you don't like HPE2, then please suggest a better alternative.

sadly an accurate observation ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not surprised just think he could have found a better term GTS2.0 is better (more accurate) but don't see it catching on

and the SuperSport should be FCF for the fake carbon fibre horn cover

How about GTS300 HPE 2023?

has been addressed above

I'll have to disagree as GTS is 250 was GTS 1.0, arguably when they put the ESS suspension on would be GTS 2.0 but move to 300 might be a more appropriate GTS 2.0. HPE would be 3.0. So this would be 4.0 or if you counted ESS then reversal of ESS it would be 6.0.

I did say similar, see earlier in this thread: https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2587970#2587970

(although didn't include the 250)

No no no.

The ESS is obviously 3.0 after which they rolled back to 1.7. The despondent broken dipstick crowd and low oil angry mob would argue that the HPE further regressed to 1.5.

Well that actually really sums it up pretty well.

I'd argue that ESS was a hotfix rather than a standalone release. It was meant to address a reported issue and introduced a different variation on the issue.

actually I'd say the reverting back to non-ESS was the hotfix

You're in the right place.

I would argue that this is actually abuse. Arguments are down the hall.

You can't argue here.

Yes you can