roland87 wrote:

Are the louvers fonctionnal ? I see you still have the bellow for your carb, so I'm wondering what they do ?
Shouldn't they be the other way round ? Then they would work as heat extractor, not letting dust or water inside the cowl.
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roland87 wrote: ![]() Are the louvers fonctionnal ? I see you still have the bellow for your carb, so I'm wondering what they do ? Shouldn't they be the other way round ? Then they would work as heat extractor, not letting dust or water inside the cowl. |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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roland87 wrote: Something new for me. But I can't find where to download this app. Can you share some link if you have? ![]() There was a thread a few years ago discussing use of the app: Tips on using GSF Dyno The download link/page seems to be gone, but I was able to get it out of the Internet Archive: https://web.archive.org/web/20160329072837/http://kodija.de/tom/GDSetupE.exe. If that one goes away (which I doubt, but...), I'll share my copy. |
Lurker
![]() Vespa P200E/ PX BGM 177/ 150 Super(10")
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roland87 really enjoyed watching you dial in your P-range to a hopefully happy conclusion, especially the help you got from Jack221, Ray8, Hibbert etc…etc…etc…
I'd like to shout a massive thank you to yourself & all the blokes on this forum for taking the time & effort to post your, their opinions, knowledge & experience as it truly is informative, enlightening & bloody well helpful - THANK YOU (you have all got me out of the shite on more than one occasion)! Keep the Faith ✊🏾
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Lurker
![]() Vespa P200E/ PX BGM 177/ 150 Super(10")
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roland87 - I ran a BGM 177, 0.9mm squish, 57mm stroke, (no cylinder work but matched transfers) SIP XL exhaust & I couldn't imagine running it on anything other than 23/65 primary & PX 125 gears, did have it on a dyno a couple of years ago & it was just under 16hp - I live in a pretty hilly city (Sheffield) & on the edge of the Peak District, UK (as the name suggests pretty hilly) I've always found this gearing to be as near to perfect as possible, like Jack221 said with his Malossi, 3rd gear is needed but very rarely. I did try it with a 24/65 primary & although it ran OK it was less sporty so went back to 23/65, much more fun. Hope the information/experience helps!
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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ColinBelgium wrote: Are the louvers fonctionnal ? I see you still have the bellow for your carb, so I'm wondering what they do ? Shouldn't they be the other way round ? Then they would work as heat extractor, not letting dust or water inside the cowl. chandlerman wrote: It's an older tool, but one which was never really replaced. SIP had an iPhone app called MicroDyno, but I don't have an iPhone so I don't know the current state of that. Bertrum6 wrote: roland87 really enjoyed watching you dial in your P-range to a hopefully happy conclusion, especially the help you got from Jack221, Ray8, Hibbert etc…etc…etc… If it weren't for the help of all the guys, my P would still be a bunch of spare parts scattered around the garage. Or maybe I would even lose the desire to deal with Vespas... This help is truly priceless! And I can't find words to express my gratitude to all the guys. I would like to hug and shake everyone's hand. And put for everyone a couple of beers... Bertrum6 wrote: roland87 - I ran a BGM 177, 0.9mm squish, 57mm stroke... Hope the information/experience helps! |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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roland87 wrote: Thanks! SIP have no longer have their app. I downloaded GSF by your link. And then realised that I need PC with Windows OS If none of that works, send me your sound file and the input details (temp, gearing, tire, etc.) and I'll generate it for you. |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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I made a decision - today I ordered 65T DRT cog, 36T 4th cog and other bits for rebuild my engine.
I'm still little doubt but I hope all will be work nice. Thanks again all you guys for advices and experience sharing. |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Engine was almost stripped off yesterday evening.
Head, piston, cylinder and crankshaft all is clogged with gearbox oil(?) clutch side seal looks bad and oil pump drive cog pin have easily noticeable play. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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I wanted to continue work today but due to night russian massive(more than 9 hours)rocket attack now we sitting without electricity, water and warm.
35 strike drones 70 cruise air based missiles 10 aeroballistic missiles 15 ballistics missiles Most of it was destroyed by our blessed Air Defence Forces. But it was absolutely hell. Therefore today will be no photos of the disassembled dirty Vespa motor and everything else that we love so much. This is a photo of the consequences of a missile strike. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
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Hooked
1980 P125X US Spec
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Roland,
Geez! ![]() Hec |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Hec In Omaha wrote: Even with all this going on in your world, you still can take a Vespa apart and put it back together faster than me! |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Good news here. Our utility service restored power supply a few hours ago. So I went to garage to do at least something.
![]() DRT 65T cog. ![]() I'm wondering if single springs in the cushion drive can cause quick wear and damage of steel clutch plates? DRT double spring on top and original single spring on bottom. ![]() This steel clutch plates is near only 3000 km old ![]() Even cracks ![]() ![]() Nice looking. ![]() Almost done. Just need to flatten rivets more but I can't find my roundhead mallet. I will look tomorrow. ![]() |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Now I can confidently say that this is crap. Indian LML crap.
This is how it look after near 4000 km. ![]() |
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I see you're doing the gear swap after all. What ratio did you decide on? If 23/65 or taller I would recommend a short 36 tooth 4th (from vespa T5) as well.
Looks like you're experiencing what freakmoped calls a "gearbox oil sucker". Gear oil gets sucked around the case half gasket and goes into the crankcase. You will see the part right below the crankshaft; this is where it usually happens. I can see dark gunk there in the pictures so I am fairly sure that this is your problem. Use a rasp or light file to make sure there are no burrs on the edges of the sealing surface (don't go crazy just clean things up), make sure the surface is clean and all the gunk is off. 3M makes a gasket remover bristle wheel that works great, I think it is called a Roloc wheel or something? He recommends to use "sealing mass" (maybe Hondabond or equivalent?) to stick the gasket to the FLYWHEEL half of the case, and to put some all over the surface on the big half and stick them together. Yes it is easier to put the gasket on the big half over the studs first but apparently when sliding them together, the gasket can very easily shift over that thin spot and cause the gearbox oil sucking; this is the typical cause. Stay safe brother! |
Molto Verboso
![]() 1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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Thanks Roland! After seeing your scoot with the blinker holes welded up, I'm doing mine that way too. Hang in there.
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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gummy8879 wrote: I see you're doing the gear swap after all. What ratio did you decide on? If 23/65 or taller I would recommend a short 36 tooth 4th (from vespa T5) as well. Looks like you're experiencing what freakmoped calls a "gearbox oil sucker". Gear oil gets sucked around the case half gasket and goes into the crankcase. You will see the part right below the crankshaft; this is where it usually happens. I can see dark gunk there in the pictures so I am fairly sure that this is your problem. Use a rasp or light file to make sure there are no burrs on the edges of the sealing surface (don't go crazy just clean things up), make sure the surface is clean and all the gunk is off. 3M makes a gasket remover bristle wheel that works great, I think it is called a Roloc wheel or something? He recommends to use "sealing mass" (maybe Hondabond or equivalent?) to stick the gasket to the FLYWHEEL half of the case, and to put some all over the surface on the big half and stick them together. Yes it is easier to put the gasket on the big half over the studs first but apparently when sliding them together, the gasket can very easily shift over that thin spot and cause the gearbox oil sucking; this is the typical cause. Stay safe brother! 23/65 primary with 36T 4th gear cog(already on the shelf). About oil sucking I thought the same at first. But it turns out that problems was in bad seal(idk when it starts) and oil pump cog pin. Despite I'm not used any sealing mass and put gasket on the big half. It was my first time rebuild P engine and only after it was done I know about FMP. This engine runs near 18000km without problems after rebuild so just luck I think But this time I will do all how it must be. |
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Hooked
1980 P125X US Spec
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roland87 wrote: Yes Gummy. 23/65 primary with 36T 4th gear cog(already on the shelf). About oil sucking I thought the same at first. But it turns out that problems was in bad seal(idk when it starts) and oil pump cog pin. Despite I'm not used any sealing mass and put gasket on the big half. It was my first time rebuild P engine and only after it was done I know about FMP. This engine runs near 18000km without problems after rebuild so just luck I think But this time I will do all how it must be. Here is the engine sealing procedure I used. Please note the engine hasn't run yet so I don't know how successful I was . I have my fingers crossed. I do know that it is air tight! As you can see the sealing surface by the kick starter is very narrow and therefore provides the potential for an "Oil Sucker". This may help you visualize the issue better. 1980 P125X Restoration Modification Project (Post 2602440) 1980 P125X Restoration Modification Project (Post 2602491) 1980 P125X Restoration Modification Project (Post 2604955) Hec
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Hec In Omaha wrote:
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Little updates.
All internal parts are out and cases cleaned. ![]() Added some meat around ports ![]() ![]() Ported ![]() ![]() ![]()
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Just catching up. I see you are taking the plunge with changing the primary gear. This was also recommended to me to make my VMC 187 better suited for higher speed cruising. I would guess that it would make it feel like a 200, but with more pep.
The short 4th seems like a good idea too. When I built my 200 engine, I kept it stock, just to see how it went before making any changes. It also had the oil sucker issue. I followed the FMP instructions. So far, so good. Nice port work on the case. Looking forward to seeing how your next round of improvements goes. |
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Molto Verboso
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Molto Verboso
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Short 4th in. But.
When I put in cogs it turns out that new 2.4mm spacer is too thick. Same story with old 2.3mm spacer. All because I measured clearance with old cogs before order new spacer but now I have new 4th gear cog... It was big luck that in 2019 I ordered new 2.2mm spacer. With it all turns perfect and I got 0.15 clearance. ![]() ![]() ![]() Inspired by success with gear box I continued to assembly engine and cases was closed. Very productive day. ![]() ![]()
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roland87 wrote: I really likes how speedo looks. Like in old Porsche... But it was not in best shape and works terrible too. I cleaned it and put new parts. Just wondering how you did it. Thanks! ![]() |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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orwell84 wrote: 1. Assembled all inner rings(except lens and outer speedo ring) and put sealant on bottom part of rubber gasket, made pressured it with a clamp and left for 12 hours. 2. Put sealant inside new speedo ring and everywhere where it seems needed to me. Clamp all again for 12 hours. To be honest it turns out not perfect. In heavy rain there was a little leakage and water gets under the lens. |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Molto Verboso
![]() 1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, 2003 Malaguti F12 Phantom,Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
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orwell84 wrote: I like the details. |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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orwell84 wrote: BajaRob wrote: Clutch is in. ![]() And engine is ready to back to the chassis. Hope I do it tomorrow. ![]()
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Ossessionato
![]() 79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
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Molto Verboso
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qascooter wrote: I like your work space Roland - very nice! Now when I have three and one or two of customers scooters there is absolutely madness mess inside the garage With little help of good friend engine back to chassis. ![]()
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Cleaned and installed carb case and carb. Not big progress but still good with my lack of time. Now when the engine is in the place it is easier to find 1-2 hours for P. Even after my main job.
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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This evening more little steps was done. Mounted and wired CDI, ignition, checked the spark, cylinder cowl, air bellow, throttle and choke cables. Not too much is left.
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It's exactly the same temp right now in Kyiv as where I live (36F).
I was wondering if you were going to risk freezing your nuts off to see how she goes with the new primary. My guess is yes. I would do the same. Actually, you have a lot of photos riding in the snow. |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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orwell84 wrote: |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Yesterday I mount and exhaust. It was absolutely few hours nightmare to get the bolt on swing arm into nut.
Decide try to use force clamp. ![]() Was so tired and angry that not wiped copper sealant. ![]() |
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
![]() 76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 66 Lammy S3
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I'm always amazed at how much of a pain fitting exhausts is.
Like... This is one of the least precision parts of a vespa, but they still never want to fit. |
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Good progress today.
- new clutch cable - new gears cables - fresh gear box oil - torqued down rear hub nut - flywheel cover - air filter - carburettor cover - gear selector cover - kickstart lever So engine was finished. Tried to start it and it alive from first light kick despite the old gas in the tank. Weather still bad, but I was so happy just to hear this lovely sound and feel this sweet two stroke smell. ![]()
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Molto Verboso
![]() '13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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chandlerman wrote: I'm always amazed at how much of a pain fitting exhausts is. Like... This is one of the least precision parts of a vespa, but they still never want to fit. |
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