Modern Vespa

My check engine light is paying me a visit. Few things checked:
Not overfilled with fuel.
Nothing wire wise found loose, so far.
Battery is strong/ tested normal.
Rides perfectly normal. Nothing weird while moving or at idle.
Starts fine.
Temperature highs or lows don't matter.
Oil level fine (recently changed).
So, if I have it hooked up on the Piaggio computer (What was is called? PADS or something?) what should I NOT have them do. I've read something about dealers resetting the throttle position sensor or something related that causes problems. I've not had it updated since 1000 miles, I'm currently at 28,000. My nearest dealer is a Aprilia dealer but they seem competent at service work.

The Liberty saw me looking at a Honda Monkey bike and it wasn't happy.

Have you tried disconnecting the battery for a few moments? "When in doubt, reboot."

I'm gonna try that tonight. It came on while heading into work, and I'm trapped in the office today.

Is the CEL on all the time, or just comes on when riding, and then goes off again?

It will come on a few minutes into the ride and stay on the whole time. No flashing, just solid on. So when i start it no light, then a few miles later its on. If i shut it off same thing. I might slip over to the Aprilia dealer and make a PADS appointment. I'm suspecting something simple but it can't hurt to have it scanned and do updates if needed.

So - have you checked the regulator? On the centre-stand, rev the bike to 3,000 rpm or more (it'll try to dance!) while checking the voltage across the battery . If it goes above 15V, that's your answer. It used to be a very common problem, but the newer regulators seem to hold up better.

You said earlier you are now at 28000miles and did not had it updated since 1000 miles.
You mean you did not do any servicing in between?

+1.

Bought my GTS 250ie with 1,900 km (1,200 miles). Seller (original owner) mentioned on multiple occasions he just replaced the battery. I should have taken his emphasis as a red flag that something was up.

At idle, no engine light. Roll on the throttle, engine light comes on. Roll off the throttle, engine light comes off.

Had a big brain moment and decided to use the search function on Modern Vespa. Sure enough found other reports of this kind of intermittent behavior and probably some post from 2010 JimC or someone.

Checked my voltage, as soon as I revved it up I was hitting 15 volts.

Ordered the new voltage regulator from SIP, took half the freakin bike apart, even the floorboard had to come up lol, a little splooshing of coolant too for good measure. But once the new part went in, no more issues.

PeterCC, I lovingly maintain my Liberty to the letter, I just spin all my own wrenches. I recently found out my local Aprilia dealer can hook it up to the PADS for diagnostics and, if needed, dowoad any updates. The Liberty hasn't seen a PADS since 1000ish miles. I'll do that voltage check asap. Like I said, I'm pretty sure it's something silly. I know things wear out.

And I will post my findings and update this thread. I should have left the Liberty at home when I looked at a Monkey bike!

So I disconnected the battery for an hour then went to reconnect it and check the voltage. The CEL is now off. While I'm hoping it was that simple I have my wife on emergency rescue detail till I get home tonight. Oh, and the voltage held solid at 14 volts no matter how fast it went. Strange. I also made sure the terminal wires were tight and damage/corrosion free while I was in the battery compartment.

OK, I misunderstood.
But it is clear now that whatever causes that CEL to appear is not linked to a lack of maintenance.

OK, so we can rule out the regulator. A PADS check next then.

What's a PADS?
MY Liberty purchased new summer 2017.
Have about 6800 on it.
Never been back to the dealer....any Piaggio dealer.
Because my local dealer folded his tent about 2 months after my purchase. Other dealers are 50 miles distant inside major cities.
Regularly DIY'd, except for taking wheels into local multi brand motorcycle/scooter shop for tire installation.
Scoot runs great. ❤️ it.
Did drop in a new yuasa this summer....insurance for my wild rides at unwise hours on lonely routes in the rains🙂
O.S.

Piaggio Advanced Diagnostic System. It is the system a Piaggio dealer uses to read error codes generated by your ECU and to download various program updates.

Don't forget to flip the kill switch on and off hard a few times. Corrosion creates resistance.

Okay, so I haven't gotten the Liberty 150 in for its PADS check yet. I know it's been a minute but now I have no choice. If any of you have hands on experience with PADS I have a weird question.

My local Aprillia dealer says they can read my Liberty with their PADS system. I've heard mixed reviews of this particular dealer.

My not local Vespa dealer said they can "obviously" read it with their PADS system BUT cannot read a Aprilia product with it.

Do you pick and choose a "select" group when buying your subscription or does PADS cover ALL current Piaggio products? I'm weary of spending $200ish dollars for a bogus service IF the Aprillia dealer can't really read my Liberty with their PADS system.

But the Liberty started to randomly stall at idle and randomly loose power at steady throttle, so something outside of my trouble shooting skills is going on.

Before you do that, check the spark plug cap is on firmly - if it's the slightest bit loose it can cause intermittent misfires and stalling. It's always worth having a spare on hand.

I'll double check it (plug cap) soon. I'm at work and I rode in today.

Plug cap snug, wire looks good. I checked a bunch of things as the "problem" has slowly been getting worse. I've been driving to work lately so now I really notice the bad running habits of the Liberty. It almost rides like a bad tank of gas, if that makes sense. I even changed the fuel and rode the 14 miles to work "hoping" the CEL light would go away. Doesn't hurt to dream!

Anyways, my wife said take it to Honda of Virginia Beach/Redline Performance. So unless someone knows how the PADS subscription works (since this dealership sells only Aprilia) I'm trusting them with my Liberty. Will post my findings when I get them.

don't know about subscriptions. But regardless of who reads it make sure you get them to give you the actual codes. Numbers like P0130 etc, not just the descriptions, this will help us help you.

I dropped it off at the shop today, 02/03/2023. The sales guy/part owner explained how PADS subscriptions work, and I still kinda don't get it. His shop is a global Piaggio franchise and they have the FULL catalog on their PADS because they do warranty and recall work for the full Piaggio range. So I have my hopes set very high!

I got caught sitting on a Monkey bike. The Liberty saw me thru the window. It felt strange leaving the Liberty at the dealer though. I still love that scooter.

And yes SteelBytes, I expect a actual printout with codes. Now its just a wait and see.

I'm picking the Liberty up Saturday morning if they haven't touched it by then. I get a constant bad feeling, after reading their whopping 3.0 reviews on Google, that they're gonna jerk me around. My wife is pissed that I'll now have to haul it 100 miles each way for help and told me to just walk away from it. I'm sick of driving that far as well. Just ridiculous. But I need to rescue it and keep my temper in check and try to make a clear headed decision.

I know stuff wears out and things break. It's been a great scooter and I feel I got my money out of it, and don't really care to put anymore money into it, if it's something semi-major. Keep yall posted.

Don't fight it, put on your game face and
be nice as p1e, professional scooter repair is a finite resource

And these little bikes have long stretches of not needing anything but a bit of home gamer maintenance

Communication is key, but I got a update. No one called me to give me a update. So when I went to pick it up, the owner told me it was throwing a TPMS sensor fault and a 02 sensor fault. Sorry, no actual "code" yet SteelBytes. So, the update:

They went ahead and double checked the 02 sensor and it checked good, so they just ordered a new TPMS sensor. I told them to go ahead and fix it. Still kinda sketched on the 3.0 review but I'll give them a chance.

While I was there I tried on a Grom for size. I just can't bring myself to toss a leg over a bike anymore. The Ruckus is just slow and complicated but obviously proven for its quality, and I'm still not sure if I want to ride a 2-stroke Rough House 50 to and from a job where I work on 2-strokes all day.

Because I still love the Liberty I'm giving it another chance. My wife said if I get over it to replace it with another Buddy 125. I hate being a prisoner of a computer/check-engine-light on cheap transportation, but the Liberty got this far without any issues so I'll accept this little incident and hope the dealer pulls thru.

Very sorry to read about your LIBERTY troubles!
You are at what, @30,000 miles?
I'm pretty much SOL if my Liberty ever needs a company dealer....now that mine closed shortly after I purchased it in 2017.

It has never been back to the dealer for a computer read, or any other work. I do the DIYing per the service schedule. Only OEM parts from AF1-racing in TX.
As with my 2012 LIKE200i - I buy them if they'll be easy to DIY.....if they're going to need constant fiddling with a dealer's umbilical chord I'll purchase something else.
Both have been bullet proof so far. If they blow up , I'll look for another left-over LIKE200i.....and ride another 10 yrs with it!

O.S.

I got "The call" saying my Liberty is ready for pick-up! And SteelBytes, I have a printout of all the faults with codes for everyone's viewing pleasure. Didn't even ask, was automatically supplied. I hope all is good and it runs great again. Picking it up Saturday morning. I'm so happy to get it back!

Will post everything by Sunday.

Read away!

Sorry it's sideways! I'll go over everything on Sunday. Look for any broken or missing things but it rides great, granted I only put 10 miles on it so far. I missed the little Liberty!

I went over the Liberty with a fine tooth comb for any reassembly flaws or short-cuts. Nothing found! Gonna hammer on the Liberty all next week and see if any issues come back but I think it's all good now.

I haven't used Google reviews in forever but I might need to make a new account and give this dealer a good review. I'm almost to the point of no longer being afraid to buy a Piaggio product again because I have a servicing dealer 10 miles away now! Trust me, local service is a big deal. Good local service is even a bigger deal!

So give me a week to pound the wheels off the Liberty and see if any faults come back. No updates in a week means its back to normal.

And again, I know everyone is tired of seeing this, but its nice to have my Liberty back!

I don't claim to know what the story is but lots of 'voltage' errors listed - concerning and intriguing ...

P1001 headlight error? seriously what?

P1560 tps error. He checked it and it's ok so could be misleading / side affect of something else.

P0117 engine temp sensor error. This obviously scares me.

P0031 P0134 O2/lambda sensor errors. O2/lambda error codes can happen when other parts of the system are dodgy. This is because of things like bad supply voltage or air leaks in the intake either of which can cause values that wouldn't happen in normal operation hence the ecu says bad. So although in both of these examples I have given there may be a fault code shown it wouldn't mean a bad sensor.


So was it even bad connections or some such and when he was investigating he cleaned them and/or re-seated them? or maybe a wire is getting worn by rubbing on something or melting and the slight movements as he poked around 'fixed' it.


repeat: I don't know, just reading and thinking based on the report supplied and I may be corrected by someone here who really does know what they are talking about



Ref for the error codes: https://file.dogantrend.com/dogantrend/dtonline/Dogan_Trend_Servis_Manuelleri/2022/Piaggio/Medley%20125-150%20i.e.%204T%204V%20ABS%20R.I.S.S.%20i-get%20E3-E4%20(2016-2019)%20Diagnosis%20Guidelines.pdf

The first one, Immobilizer, was from my chip reader ring taking a walk. I covered that in another thread.

The second, voltage out of range, was from my dying battery. I was stubborn and kept jumping it during my work week until I could get to Batteries Plus.

The rest I have no idea. Electrical is currently out of my pay grade.

The dealer did tell me that the O2 sensor does go bad but they honestly don't think its a issue to be concerned with yet, considering my miles and the fact I keep the maintenance up on my Liberty. I might just order O2 sensor and keep it on hand though.

Also need to order a rear tire.

And thank you for the link to the trouble codes SteelBytes! Knowledge is power!

So I'm coming home from work tonight and I'm idling at a red light and I feel what I would call a little hiccup. Hummm, weird. Then my Check Engine light came back on! It's idling and riding totally fine but I'm at the end of my rope with this. I know its slowly gonna start to mess up again.

My wife said to just replace it with another Buddy 125. Simple, proven and no stupid check engine light. I might just opt for a Rough House 50. I'm gonna run by my local Genuine dealer and see what they have.

So I have a Liberty 150 that looks mint, needs a rear tire and a Check Engine Light glowing away.

Buddy 170 would be a better replacement.

I looked at a 170i when they first came out kz. Nice scooter by all accounts but I want simple again. No EFI, no CEL, no complicated fuel pumps. Both of my Buddy 125's were great scoots. But now that I only ride for commuting I could get away with a Rough House 50.

Only reason I didn't get another Buddy 125 last time was the Liberty fit 2 adults easier, and my wife always hated the ride as a passenger with the 10" wheels. I no longer ride a passenger so I can take that off the check list now. Oh, and another reason I didn't get another Buddy! The crappy rear rack! The owners who say their racks never break is because all the carry is a pillow and never go fast over railroad tracks and avoid all the bumps in the road.

You live close enough to work to survive a commute on a 50!?
Sorry to hear about your 🗽, obviously 🙃
....from fellow 🗽 owner.
Hope you find a good scooter !

O.S.

OMG! I have everyone's favorite issue, a exhaust leak! Not at the cylinder but the where the muffler slides onto the pipe. I bet that's what caused the current/random CEL. Since everything I looked at was boring I'm gonna fix that exhaust leak.

It's not that everything is boring,
it's we already got solid rides,
dig in 🔧 and keep them going 🛵 💨

I know exactly what you mean C C. The Lance and SYMs just didn't do it for me. They had a Lifan that looked just like a Honda ADV 150. It was okay. A bunch of Chinese copy cat scooters. So you bet I'm gonna go thru the Liberty and fix that leak! And I actually checked for an exhaust leak when the CEL first came on.

They did have a clean 2006 Genuine Buddy 150, the blue St. Topez, with a bit over 1000 miles for $2000. But I kept thinking "original 17 year old tires, crusty carb, dried up fuel hoses, original brake fluid." Stuff I hate messing with nowadays.

Scooter, you making me crazy, man!
This is like the 3rd, 4th,? time you were quitting on our Liberty 🙂

Just joking...I am of the same mind. If one of my scooters becomes unreliable....it's out of here.
I am more in favor of the reliability of modern EFI bikes than you, but...
I, too, need to trust my scooter when I'm miles from home, on a shoulderless country road, 2 hrs before sunrise, and it is below freezing.

Hope this fixes it for you.
Regards, o.s.
and the SYMs made in Taiwan are every bit the quality of anything made in Japan. And ....we're both riding a Vietnamese scooter...

I'm officially tired of unwanted or needed tech. The CEL is still a totally random visitor. No more weird riding habits but it pops on still. Resets and goes away if I turn the Liberty off and on again. So I ordered a gloss titanium Buddy 125, plus a low down seat, windshield and flimsy rear rack I love so much.

The dealer will still take the Liberty in on trade. Since they are a small independent I told them they can look it over and hook it to their PADS before making me an offer. I'm not gonna do them wrong because they've always done me right. Gonna miss the Liberty but I've owned 3 Buddy scooters so I guess I'm going back to what I know.

I'll still recommend Piaggio products regardless. That Liberty was a reliable scooter overall. Great build quality and easy to self service overall. And you didn't get rid of me totally! I'll still peek in from time to time to see whats happening in Vespa land.