Modern Vespa

I've been known to break some lambrettas in my time... but, *this* time I don't think it was me!

all y'all is in trouble!

Most of 2022. Have you been stuck in a blizzard? I hear they are very common.

Probably more common because of climate change caused by ICE vehicles

I think extrapolating to that "you will die" is a little far fetched... but I'll agree that I don't like the fact they are silent in parking lots and on the road at low speeds.
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As someone who cycles a lot and often finds myself braking and swerving to avoid pedestrians that don't look I welcome that EV vehicles are near silent, it will eventualy teach people to observe their surroundings before stepping into a road.

If you are a driver in a car park and rely solely on pedestrians being able to hear you coming, you've got the road safety thing all wrong. You are the one in charge of a potentially lethal machine, be it an EV or fossil fuelled, not them. Assume they're all deaf. Some will certainly have hearing impairment. Take it slow!

As for increased risk of death for EV drivers in a blizzard? Millions of Scandinavians say no each winter, and no need to worry over and above the chance of death in fossil fuel car stuck in the snow. Watch out for CO poisoning if you run your ICE in a snow drift though.

And/or select out those adamantly opposed to doing so.

I've been using this forum for years. Before this thread came along, I never realized that we are only allowed one thumbs down per day.

Wow many interesting points were made on this subject. I still say they will get my ICE Vespa when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
If only I could come up with a Vespa analogy to when they come for my guns I will give them my ammo.

Yet another "not to be discussed" subject enters the thread.

Bill

I recently went to the introduction of the Cadillac Lyriq electric car where I reminded the sales person that the cost of replacing a Lincoln battery in Canada now approaches twenty thousand dollars. She replied that I would not want to drive a Lyriq out of the warranty period.

Nobody said that the future will be inexpensive.

Incidentally, just to open the glove compartment you need to go into two on-screen menu levels. I'm not kidding.

Cheers,
Bob

Alan4Christ has been ejected from this topic

mmmmm taking off on what a red head insinuates to often to me " here you are "

frank thomas has been ejected from this topic

Interesting how this thread has gone.

I drive a 2020 Leaf. My 1st Leaf was a 2013. I also had a 2013 Honda CRV. Then is 2016, the Leaf had a 30Kw battery. I sold the CRV. In 2018, the Leaf came out with a 40Kw battery. This helped my range anxiety. Finally, in 2019, Nissan increased the battery to 62Kw. I had to wait till 2020 due to finances but was able to upgrade for the last time. Two things about the Leaf.

1) I have to plan my ride so I have the charge I need for the trip. I have 120V and 240V charge in my garage. Charging at 120 is better for the battery.

2) The Leaf is Noisy. It has a built in noise generator that makes a sound up to 18 mph. It also has a backup beeper and pedestrian sensors plus 4 camera display so I can move carefully in any direction.

This thread started as a question about EV scooters. I really wanted one. I have driven Honda Goldwing Trikes since 2001. Exception was a Harley Trike in 2014 but there were too many things I did not like so in 2017 went back to a Honda Goldwing Trike. I sold that trike in Sept and that week went shopping for a EV scooter. It did not take long for me to realize that for my needs I had to go with the ICE scooter. I would need a scooter with a worst case of 100 mile range. But that might be too heavy for me to handle. The ZERO has that at around 400+ ibs, and with a seat height of 31 inches.

For now, I am happy with my Vespa.

I find your post quite interesting, and not far afield from my own experiences. I have owned two LEAFs - a '13 and a '16. They have both been reliable, inexpensive to operate, and incredibly inexpensive to maintain. I would like a LEAF or one of its successors with longer range, but my '16 S30 serves my needs for now.

I would also like to own an EV scooter, but I have not found one that has at least comparable speed and range to a Primavera 150 in a similar form factor. When one becomes available, I will likely have it in my garage.

You did just see that people died in Buffalo in the blizzard. Most of them were probably in ICE vehicles. If those were all electric I think it would have been worse. People were stranded for a couple of days at subzero temps. In the first half day the electric cars would have run out of power. I'm sorry. It's not a good replacement for ICE vehicles. I like that Toyota has held the line at going all electric. I'm really rooting for them to iron out the issues with their hydrogen cars. I honestly think it will be a much better alternative to electric if they solve the issues.
Here's a channel I watch on YouTube that explored the EV winter issues briefly.

This has been one of the best topics I have read on here in a while. All the opinions open different ways of thinking. Like anything else on here, the topic is usually followed for a bit, then it goes down a side street. Sometimes it comes back, sometimes not, but all good for thought, never the less. Jess - thanks for all the links, especially the ones on SS. The amount of BS alone on the subject could fill a deep valley. I read every one of the links and learned a couple new things - no time wasted there. My wonderful father used to tell me that if you are not learning, you're not living. Hopefully this gets in before it gets locked. Thank you all.

And yet people in Scandinavia keep buying them.

Ultimately, it doesn't matter what you (or I) think. EVs are already on the road. They're not some exotic future car, they're here today. And they will probably continue to displace ICE vehicles going forward, despite the plethora of opinions bouncing around on the internet.

What's really surprising to me is how much anger people have toward EVs. As if the existence of some product that some people find useful is offensive to those who don't.

Oh well. Tough shit.

I'm giving up on changing anyone's mind at this point. Anyone that wants to continue to debate it (civilly) is welcome to do so. The people that just want to spew hate will be bounced from this thread.

I'll likely not participate further.

Just how long could an ICE vehicle keep its occupants warm? Noting that idling a car in a snow drift is a sure way to die from CO poisoning. So an occupant has to get out every so often (if they can!) and clear snow away from the exhaust.

The answer of course is that neither type of vehicle is designed to protect occupants for hours on end in a snow drift. So an incredibly silly non-argument in the discussion.

That "if" is holding enough weight to qualify for at least bronze. Sorry.

It is also interresting to me that virtually none of those arguing against EVs has any experience owning or driving them. And I hear little criticism of EVs from those who have. Interestingly enough, virtually everyone who does have experience with EVs, also has experience with gasoline and diesel vehicles - including me (and you, for that matter).

This situation with people voicing arguments on the internet against something often have no direct experience. The vitriol against EVs is amazing, in a bad way, by a few people.

Interesting to me that people on the far ends of issues always seem to be the loudest and unwilling to listen to reason or facts. Yes, as Jess mentioned, confirmation bias, the internet has made that easy.

For motorcycles and scooters, aerodynamics play an even bigger role with range, including EVs.

Moving forward from ICE vehicles and fossil fuel is inevitable and necessary as mentioned. Zero net carbon fuels, like being developed by Prometheus Fuels, may lengthen the transition. The future may not be just EVs, but a combination of different propulsion systems including EV, hydrogen, and others to be developed.

I'm not sure where you're seeing anger. Certainly not from me. I don't have any anger towards the product at all. I think Teslas and some others are cool vehicles. I think they're hugely overpriced myself. The biggest issue I have is so many governments mandating EVs over ICE vehicles. Some places will no longer sell ICE in two years. I think that's not only ridiculous, but very premature. I like my vehicles and I know that some places are going to make it difficult to keep them. That's what I don't like. Some of you guys are a bit rude with your arguments. Because I don't want an EV does not mean that I think you're an idiot or something. Some of you should probably take a deep breath.

You know of an EV that will keep a charge for two days in -20F temps? The "if" was being quite charitable and giving a large benefit of the doubt.

Back to the main subject, does anyone have the Vespa Elettrica, and if so how does it perform/do you like it?

Curious, where?

I presume robsteeler66 refers to Norway. What is perhaps more interesting is that gas vehicle sales in Norway are trending to zero by mid-2023.

https://electrek.co/2021/09/23/norway-bans-gas-cars-in-2025-but-trends-point-toward-100-ev-sales-as-early-as-april/

Pff! No way!!
It's like, -20F there almost half the year!!!

Norway 2025, then Belgium starts the next year. 4 years after that a whole slew of countries ban them. This is not far into the future. The infrastructure is not ready. What about military vehicles? It's gonna be quite interesting when someone shoots a battery pack and cooks off an entire platoon in an electric truck. 😳 To be honest, I don't know what kind of battery tech military equipment will use. They may not use Lithium Ion batteries for that reason. I hope not. I'm only interested in this topic because I was thinking about getting a cyber truck even though it looks like it was penned by a 7 year old, because I don't have a commute and it would just be a toy for me. It's got some cool, rugged features that I like.

No it isn't far in the future. On the other hand, Norway makes an interesting example. Their infrastructure doesn't need to be ready by 2025 as you suggest. It needs to be ready by mid-2023 based on the choices being made by vehicle owner/operators in the Country. With many other countries in Europe, as you observe, not far behind.

I don't know where Europe is going to get all this electricity from. They need some advanced molten salt nuke plants if they even hope to charge these cars. It's worrisome that no one seems to be moving towards this and Germany has even un-mothballed some coal plants to get through winter.

EVs as percentage of new car sales is very different to EVs as percentage of cars on the road. So the infrastructure probably doesn't have to be rolled out as quickly as some people claim.

there's a search feature that will bring up those threads; or you could start a new topic on it if you wish.

Kinda thought that's what this thread was about… 🤷🏽‍♂️

seems more like a discussion about the why of EV and not any actual information or reviews of EV scooters. or maybe there was. frankly I could probably care less but I'm too lazy to go back and read all that drivel.

anyway, if you're looking specifically for information regarding the electrica then you'd probably be better off searching for it or starting a new thread.

This has been a really informative thread. I used to wrongly think that ICE stood for Infernal Combustion Engine, now I know it's actually a blizzard rating!

If we are talking about Norway, nearly 98% of its electricity already comes from renewables. The large majority from hydropower.

By the way, this is the same Norway that currently generates about half of it's economic activity including exports with North Sea oil, but came to the realization that an oil based economy isn't the (our) future.

Yes I ride an Elettrica 70 in the UK , have owned a GTS 125 and PX 200 - the Elettrica was bought as a commuter scooter and is superb at this . It costs me pennies to charge and I have a total commute of 20 miles per day , the roads that I use have a speed limit of 30 mph , well within the capabilities of the Elettrica. I've owned the scooter for nearly three years and in this time the number of electric scooters on the streets of the UK has significantly increased ( mostly Chinese models ) I won't be going back to an ice scooter and as far as I can see the future of electric scooters can only get better .

What it will take California to meet clean energy mandate:

https://calmatters.org/environment/2022/06/california-climate-plan-electricity/