Modern Vespa

Here we go again. I usually do this in the NSM side. Going to rescue another castoff from Greasy's yard.

It's an ET4 with mega DMV back fees and a bad crank. Kajiit gave me a price I couldn't refuse due to the horrible fee situation. I'm not sure when I'll get it from him but I paid him and the title will come in the mail so I can stop the bleeding on fees by getting it on non-op.

The plan is an engine swap for a good used engine, and refresh / renew the consumables. Probably the front brake needs going through as it hasn't been registered since 2014.

Any tips on what you'd go through for a scooter that's sat so long?





Last edited by sdjohn on Tue, 21 Mar 2023 23:06:51 +0000; edited 3 times

I'd pull the tank and give it a thorough cleaning. It's plastic, but the varnish can get ripe. Plan on a new tap, as ethanol fuels seem to destroy fuel screens. ScooterPartsCo has a ethanol-resistant tap.

Rebuild or replace the master cylinder. I think it's an AJP. Several other Piaggio scoots used them too, but it's an early aughts thing. I found spares when I was refurbishing my '01 Torpedo 50.

Maybe plan for a 190 kit?

Last edited by az_slynch on Sun, 15 Jan 2023 21:05:52 +0000; edited 2 times

I'd say no way but I've already looked up the price on scooterpartsco.com. the economics of the project aren't favorable already so likely no.

To back up a bit, the idea was to fix it, make it respectable, and sell it on. It might hang out longer than expected now as I got wind that my eldest daughter and my wife are thinking of taking the MSF riding course this summer. If they do, I'd rather have them tooling around and learning on this than on my GTS.

You might need to plan on a carb as the older ones Walbro ones can be wonky. But you still get some parts for them. Other than that - fuel line, vacuum line, air filter, maybe a petcock. Look for a cracked intake manifold as well.

no worries, it was a good runner before it got laid up. and I think it's a dellorto as well. but all the usual fluff and fold stuff applies.

if not, no big deal. John will have full access to the run of parts at Kajiit House of Wares (in other words, I'm sure I can peddle off a whole bunch more stuff to him)

I knew that you couldn't refuse at that price!

all kidding aside, it delights me that it's set in motion. you were right that it's too nice of a bike to part out and I'm glad that you're saving it from the scrap heap.

I'll start amassing parts to go along with it!

The generosity of Kajiit knows no bounds! Good man Greasy.

I was unable to convince John to take my p200 project so I *had* to sell him something....

all kidding aside it's been something that we'd been in talks about for a bit and it just now has come to fruition. and it really does delight me that john's the one to save this one.

much like the NSM stuff, Kajiit has a whole shop full of modern stuff just waiting to go out the door, so the magic minivan is gonna be stuffed full of parts when he comes to scoop it up!

Don't worry, I still plan to trade you the built up VBB bitsa for the P200 project!

Ok since I have time before this becomes a thing, someone convince me that a Malossi 190 is or is not worth $350-400.

Maybe ask @znomit about the 190 that he had in his LX

if you are going to keep it, absolutely.

if you are just building it to tool around town, a bike for a beginner or something you're gonna flip I'd say not.

the ROI on the kit for the user is well worth it, not so much for the seller. sure it checks a box and it might be that +1 that tips a sale but a large majority of riders or buyers aren't looking or even thinking about a big bore kit.

don't get me wrong, it is without a doubt one of the best and most impactful upgrades you can do, and anything else you add performance wise just compliments it. but the fact of the matter is that it is also the most expensive upgrade.

It's worth it if you need the little extra top speed, or have unrequited hooligan tendencies.

So are any other performance upgrades cheaper but still impactful? An exhaust or something? I'm gonna have to think on the Malossi but of course the easy time to do it is before you put in the new motor…. I'm inclined to keep it simple but if my family latches on to this thing….

lighter rollers in the vario are cheap and easy. a performance vario is your next choice for not breaking the bank.

most of the exhausts are noise makers except for the PM which is $$ the sito gives a little, is still quiet but weighs like 1/2 as much

I'd keep it stock, for what you're trying to do. if you were rebuilding an engine though, I'd probably be inclined to suggest snapping one on.

if you gotta have one... I might know a guy...

I agree with Greasy on if you're flipping it, stock is better and cheaper. If your going to keep it around, you need to decide on how you want it to run. I'd still be inclined to leave it stock then upgrade as wanted, if I were keeping it.

ET4/LX150 hot cams

Camshaft since you'll have it apart.


Do fees ever go away or drop off of books in CA if not registered? What if it's registered in a different state? Minnesota goes back to last should have been renewed date. Unless you lose your license plates then you have to pay a nominal fee maybe $20.00, and renewal date starts from month you get replacement plates.

When I sell, I always keep my old plates and hang them in garage to force new owner to register and get vehicle out of my name.

With CA DMV its all a cloud of uncertainty about when/how/if things ever drop off the books. I've not met anyone certain that if I "washed" the title by way of another state whether the fees would disappear. Complicating matters is that I called dmv earlier in 2022 to get the fees since they would not display on the web page. They asked for my name and stupidly I gave them my real name. So I can't even plead ignorance when I go to register it. I'm sure they added a note when I called. I'm gonna man up and pay, but still ask when I get there if anything can be done.

This is one of the very rabbit holes I'm going down with my LX project. Got it running, then decided since it was a hella cheap beater that I'd spend the difference that a decent one would have set me back in order to make Lucky a hotrod.

I understand that WebCam can regrind stock cams to the "NoHo" or "357" profiles. I've been told this is a $200 investment as well. I have two spare cams, besides the one still installed in Lucky. I intend to try both grinds out. Spare head is out for porting and I'm trying to suss out Dynagrego's secret recipe for bigger valves.

Got the PM pipe on my last trip to San Diego. Goin' all Tugg Speedman with this one.

I'm thinking the smartest thing to do is stay stock. I just know that when I test drove an LX a friend had for sale, it was pretty lame up the larger hills of the area. That test drive actually was the reason I decided to go test drive a GTS. Even so - still the right thing to do. Mission creep is so easy to get into, and I think we're gonna call this one a stock build.

So it seems there are a few profiles, eh? I looked at their web page but Vespa is not in the drop down list. That's assuming it's these guys: http://www.webcamshafts.com/

I will have a spare camshaft from the trashed engine. I'm keeping it stock but learning my options

I don't know if it's a national thing, but in some States, they won't issue a title if you owed back fees to California. And I know there are States that won't let you register a California car if it failed smog in California.
Heck with the 190 kit, go for the 218cc liquid cooled option. That will wake it up a bit.

If I was gonna wash it I'd use Saints in TN. They fixed a few missing titles for me already. Solid people.

So a good used engine will go in. I'm assuming that with the unknown condition of everything, it probably needs the equivalent of a 12k service? I see all the manuals are available in the wiki and I did some downloading.

you're right on the money J, full comprehensive service. the valve check and adjust is cake with the motor out!

you'll not need to worry about pulling down the drive pulley, that was just done. but all the consumables should be done.

you'll be styling in no time!

Is the new plate gonna be 7MARY3 or 7MARY4?

What special tools do I need to make it happen? And which one is "pulling down the drive pulley"?

I'd go with 7MARY3 because my name is John but then again 7MARY4 would be tempting because Poncharello was so good with the ladies.

whoa - 7 part series from Robot - link to part 1:

here's the full tutorial. you can fake your way thru it without the proper tools, though. but the right stuff makes it so much easier...

but given the mileage and known history on it, I really wouldn't worry about it.

This. This damn near never gets looked at and makes the scoot variate so much better.

very very true. it's one of those things that often gets overlooked because people just assume that's how it is. when you do enough belt and roller changes it gets to a point where you can tell if you need to jump in there and go through everything.

usually just inspecting, cleaning and lubing is enough for many many miles. which is what should be done every belt/roller change anyway.

on something that's been abused or neglected it can be a real game changer in how the bike rides.

I did the Malossi 190 upgrade, as well as the Polini upgear and GPR Vintology exhaust on my Fly 150 with Leader engine.

All together, with a malossi variator, it made quite a difference and was a fun bike to ride. It was a genuine 75 mph GPS confirmed bike. I rode this scoot frequently on I-75 around Cincy, and had no problems keeping up and passing traffic.

For THIS ET4, I think you should skip it. I'm not sure it will give you a lot if that is all you do. It doesn't seem like you plan to keep this scoot for very long, even if it gets used a little bit by family members.

Thanks Carl - if the bike grows on me we can always circle back and now you've given me a blueprint. Did you make a build thread on it at all?

So I think I read somewhere that you should not run the engine without the variator and transmission on. Is that so? The engine that is in the bike now has trashed splines on the crank for the variator. It would be nice before pulling it to at least crank it over and see spark using a tester. This would say that all of the immobilizer and ignition are OK. Maybe if the lead is off the plug anyway in order to use a spark tester, the question is moot. But still, not having done much mechanical on moderns, inform me.

Sorry, I don't think I did a detailed thread on my build. I had my local guy do the work.

yeah, not a good idea to run without the transmission components in place or the cover.

it'll crank over in that the splines on the crank are stripped at the vario back plate and the starter engages the ring gear on 1/2 pulley on the snout end.

the immobilizer only lets you know that spark is possible and what "mode" it is in via the led flash. coded, uncoded, missing chip/antenna. so technically you can test for spark and get a fat blue flash, but because it's uncoded or the chip isn't talking to the CDI it will only run below the 2200 rpm threshold.

the FSM details the whole system fairly in-depth so worth a dive on that.

So what are the evils of running with no transmission components or cover? I'm not gonna do it, but I want to know what I'd break and why.

To preface, this is a spitball. No gospel here.

Running with a transmission but not a cover on a LEADER might be bad because the final drive input shaft is partially supported by a bearing in the clutch cover. Running the transmission without the cover may put undue strain on the other bearings supporting that shaft or the pull of the belt could cause the primary transmission gear pair to mesh too tightly and cause accelerated wear or damage.

As for running with nothing on the crank, you have a more dramatic imbalance of rotating mass. Maybe the imbalance causes unacceptable forces on the crank and could damage the main bearings or possible lead to the crank weights getting tweaked on the big end pin and really banging things up?

I may have done myself in a bit with the title. I saw on the CA DMV web site you can do title transfers online now. I thought "wow that sounds good to me" and went for it. I submitted my title images but forgot a purchase price. This was Saturday. I heard back right away that it was missing the price, so I was encouraged that maybe this service will work pretty quickly! But after resubmitting my images - radio silence. The whole thing works by email. You get a case number and just keep replying to the emails if you need to submit more. At some point they tell you how much you owe, you pay, and it goes through. Problem is, there is no phone number to call if you get stuck. If nothing happens this week, I might just have to go ahead and do the physical office appointment.

Anyone tried this out before? What kind of luck did you have?