Modern Vespa

Picked up a sidecar and am wondering what make it is and if it's complete. Looks pretty tidy. As the story from the PO goes, he bought it new with a 2005 PX150 at Vespa of Hartford (CT)... maybe in about 2006.

He put 75 miles on the hack before removing the sidecar and putting it away in storage in his shed, covered, while he continued using the scooter solo.

It's very lightweight -- a fiberglass tub with steel frame. It has a Vespa style 10" wheel and suspension w/a simple dampener & spring like an early scoot. I don't see any identifying info on the sidecar regarding manufacturer, but based on the wheel components I'd guess it's Indian or Indonesian. Globe? Inder? Scooter99, etc? Doesn't seem like a California or a Rocket... but I could be wrong.

I want to install it eventually on my 64 VBB 177cc. Not sure if I have all the required hardware: In addition to the sidecar's steel frame, included are a squarish steel bracket that bolts under a scoot's floorboard where the centerstand attaches and some other bits. Suppose I could be missing stuff, but maybe I could make parts or source them once I know what it is...

I haven't found an exact match yet from any internet searches. Anyone recognize this make or have any familiarity with same? Thanks

It's an older version from scooter99. I have seen a few around Atlanta in the last 10 years. Only one was connected to a running bike and the sidecar frame had a lot of flex in it and made it pretty unstable to drive, you may have to reinforce it make it more stable.

Just looks like a scary sidecar off a bodge

Matt beat me to it - and has more up close experience.
Looks like a first generation scooter 99 out of Indonesia.
Perfectly respectable body.
Frame is made of pipe rather than tube - so it's perhaps not the stiffest solution - but it could be stiffened if you found it too flexible.

Has become very expensive to import something like that - so not so many around.
Overall - I'd say - great find - if you wanted a sidecar. First glance appears to show it might all be there - including subframe that goes onto scoot.

You can attach the two halves while it's still off, and look for any play/ needed reinforcement, to stiffen.

Good luck and welcome!
🙂
CM

Thanks Matt. My detective work yesterday in another owner's discussion group specific to Vespa sidecars yielded the same find. The one I saw pics of was a more recent scooter99 car imported to Canada that resembled my design but was one continuous piece connecting both the scoot and car. My bracket is a separate piece and it also has 2 additional bars that link to the sidecar frame. I will check it thoroughly including the sidecar wheel and suspension.

Thanks CM. At first blush, the whole shebang looks fairly solid and maybe could be complete. Condition still appears near-new and clean inside and out.

These might be $3100 purchased new currently so I feel lucky to have snagged it for 1/6th the cost. Older fella just didn't want it anymore or even have a scoot. He was more into his trailered Harley, also a time capsule itself.

I don't know if I want a sidecar to complicate my riding life, but my better half... well, she likes it. I may have multiple willing passengers in the house (time will tell).

NP.
If ur missing any parts or want instructions, u could probably email scooter 99 for either.
I think they are also on WhatsApp.

Question: what was the Vespa scooter sidecar forum? Curious. Feel free to pm if preferred.

Also found this. Mine's no doubt years older but it's still very close:
https://www.scooter99.com/sidecars/sidecar-5

A scooter99 video link is included but beware, the accompanying music is loud and funky so check your sound volume!
PMed you btw

Just a suggestion, if you did not to install on the VBB, could it possible work on the BMW? I had a 750/5 with a hack, it did alright. Downside was if I took it out at night to a bar. Upon returning to it after paying my tab, there was always a few women, fairly drunk, hanging around wanting a ride. My girlfriend never liked that too much.

I love the idea Tierney. You must be a charmer also to have been awarded that kind of attention. Thing is, my wife kind of scares me when she gets mad! Fortunately, she is happy about the sidecar's arrival, so... thumbs up.

My BMW R75/6 is an early one... from 1974, so it looks in some ways like a slash 5 (it has the kickstarter AND electric start, plus the chrome blinkers that I like). It would look great with a hack, but I bet my scoot sidecar would need massive modification. Someday when I'm well to do I'll get the right hack.

Well, that girlfriend turned into my wife. Anyhow, for reasons I still can't understand, a lot of ladies preferred to ride in a sidecar rather than pillion. Maybe it's more of a rush, or more comfortable, I don't know. Take the hack somewhere, anywhere, and there would always be someone that wanted to get in that thing. Crazy. Driving one has it's advantages, in rainy weather for instance, but you definitely go thru front tires quicker with clutches to a lesser degree. A local has one on his Stella , geared down of course. Top speed may be 45 on a good day, but he loves it. Side note: the /7 models were built a little stiffer than the late, long base /6 frames for sidecar use. Good luck with it.

Worthy tips there to consider. Thanks Tierney. And btw, lucky for us that the girlfriends did stick around for this long, even with the seemingly endless motorcycles and scoot projects cluttering up the place.

The sidecar and vbb hack will need to wait a while for some attention since it's currently too cold up here for working in the unheated garage or barn. Winter tinkering operations have moved to the basement shop. Enjoy your new projects as well.

Sorry for a bit of a late post but I own a scooter99 sidecar myself and regularly ride it in Singapore.

We have quite a few of them over here. Your set looks complete. However, you may need a slightly longer engine bolt to accommodate the two brackets that slot in and are held by the engine bolt. I'm not 100% sure if you can get away with the stock bolt but just wanted to share the possibility of needing a longer one.

As for comments on the sidecar itself, they're not bad! With a solid scooter frame you can get away with a lot. Definitely suitable for joy rides around a small town. For anything more serious it would be valuable to add a cross-beam from the sidecar to the scooter to increase stability and reduce stress on the floor boards. This would also reduce the risk of cracks forming.

Unfortunately as far as sidecars go these are more for fun/looks rather than any serious motoring. They offer no adjustment toe-in/out or lean angle. They are also pretty uncomfortable for the passenger due to primitive suspension.

Thanks for posting and it's great to hear your experience with it in Singapore. A little bit snowed in here currently, but before long I will be tackling a dry build to see how it goes and if I'm missing anything parts wise.

I'd been considering the scooter swingarm bolt question myself. With the sidecar big bracket, the bolt's probably not long enough and I may need to order one somewhere that's a half inch or so longer. I bet there's a specialty fastener supplier that will ship. I do have a Vespa smallframe motor mount bolt that's longer but it's not as beefy as the largeframe ones are.

RE: suspension... The potholes here should be fun! You're right: just mainly joyrides around a small town and country back roads. I plan to check/possibly rebuild the sidecar axle assembly and also the scooter's front end to get off to a good start.

That sounds good! I would love to see updates on how it goes. You can also contact scooter99 for parts which you might be missing. They do sell spares but they can be on the pricey side.

I recently completed a cross-border trip from Singapore to Malaysia on the sidecar rig as a challenge to see how capable the rig really is. It's a 100km journey each way and I got there and back just fine. Quite impressive for a vehicle which we all label as "just for fun". Malaysian roads are notoriously poorer than those in Singapore but the sidecar did just fine. Admittedly it would have been horribly bumpy for a passenger haha. I look forward to the next long trip with the sidecar. Perhaps something a little further.

HBacon, exciting trip there! Share a pic or two of your sidecar hack on the road, if you're so moved? BTW, I agree, the prices for parts/accessories on the Scooter99 site are um... premium level to be sure. Also they didn't have longer aftermarket swingarm bolts that I could see, but I would source that from U.S. suppliers anyway.

So I am just guessing here but wondering if your sidecar is attached to a PX150 or similar generation of Vespa? Or older VBB era? The floorboards' box sections are different, I just found.

Update! Adding to the record in case future members using similar Scooter99 sidecar mounts may find this info helpful...

I (finally) trudged through the snow to the barn and explored mounting options for this under-floor bracket with a few different old scooter model (project or abandoned) frames that I have kicking around.

This particular bracket presents a problem for VBB or GL era frames due to the middle box section/floor support getting in the way of the bracket actually touching the floor. The bracket can't sit flush with the floor's underside because of the middle floor support. And, a VBB's centerstand holes on either side of the tunnel don't line up with this bracket's thru-floor bolts. New drilling req'd for that.

Not the case with P Series frames/floors. They would be fine with my bracket -- it formerly was on someone else's 2005 PX150. I have a very roached out, rusted '79 P125x frame. These Ps didn't have a center floor support, and their front and rear supports nestle nicely with this Scooter99 bracket.

PITA, but I would need to modify any VBB era bike for the sidecar. I'd have to 1) remove the center floor support so the bracket can sit squarely against the underside of the scooter, and 2) drill new centerstand type holes. Could I get away with removing the middle floor support and sealing the floor up, then attaching, I wonder?

Or, I'd have to pad out the bracket itself somehow so it supports the VBB floor properly in the front and rear, and also drill new holes and use longer bolts. I'll give that some thought. Nah, it might throw off the bracket's swingarm bolt mounting too.

So I assume Scooter99 made/probably still makes a bit different attachment brackets that fit older 60s, 70s Vespa models' floors correctly.

Anyone in the states want to trade their VBB one for a PX one?

BTW, when the Scooter99 floor bracket is added to the frame, the original Vespa motor swingarm bolt is too short by about a 1/2" at 9-1/2" long (241mm). A bolt length of 10" (254mm) or a tad longer should suffice.

Here's mine. Attached to a not-so-original PX150.

What a nice rig! Perfect color too. It sounds like it's a good, reliable runner. I'm sure it's a blast.

Did you use the P to GS kit on your PX or did you adapt your individual parts?

I have been considering doing something similar on my Stella as I like the look and am not worried about originality.

It was like this from the previous owner and likely been like this for a while, so I am not sure of what kit was used to achieve this look.

It's actually quite strange because a large majority of the PXs in Singapore look like this. As though everybody bought the same "kit" and went for the same look. I have a feeling there isn't a kit involved though. No idea how they end up with this combination of parts haha.

A lot of Vespas in Singapore were daily run arounds so they tend to have a mish mash of random parts as the owners replaced individual parts as and when needed. Most of the Vespas here originated from Singapore locally so we haven't had many of the vietnamese bodges coming in either, in case that's another suspicion on the random mix of parts for a classic look.

Admittedly I have chosen a nice photo of my vespa, and if you saw it up close in real life you'd spot many flaws and bits of rust. Either way, it recieves a lot of care and I enjoy riding it.

In the photos I've seen on here and in magazines and Youtube, I've been bowled over by the ingenuity and passion in the vintage community in Indonesia, for example, and I suspect Singapore may share similarities with that. Hope to see that in person one day.

I think it could done pretty easily without a kit. I tried one of my VBB cowls on my Stella. Wouldn't take much to make it work with the PX latches.

I have some experience with this - might be able to help.

First up - you need to decide how deep you want to go on this - lots of solutions - with varying degrees of difficulty.
Not sure your resources - how "home made" you want to make it - so I will give some options. Do you have access to a welder?

Option 1. Carve back the flat plate to allow the sidecar frame to sit flush on the bottom of the VBB. Just grab a cut off wheeled angle grinder and go for it. It will be fine. This will allow only 1 bolt though. You would want to find a. means to put a second set of bolts further forward on the tunnel.

Option 2. Cut the black flat plat off where it connected to the tubular frame - slide it into position so it doesnt interfere - and re-weld back to the sidecar frame. This is probably how scooter 99 does it. They just move that plate. Easy for anyone who welds to do this.

Option 3. Grip it and rip it. You may be able to get by with just putting spacers in. Take some thick walled tubing and cut yourself little 3/8" sections and use them as spacers. Drill as needed to allow a bolt to fall on either side of the floorboard reinforcement - so that as you tight the bolts - they blame the sidecar frame down on to the cross member that is in the way.

Pro tip - use a flat piece of stainless steel, on top of the floorboard - where your feet go. run the bolts through this - so that it spreads the load when you tighten - and avoids deforming your floor board and cracking your paint.

Option 3 might also require you to file or Dremel the attachment point that your engine bolt goes through - as it will have the sidecar frame sitting slightly lower than intended.

Finally - about that bolt. There are various manufactures of engine bolts. Some make them longer than others. There is at least one from SIP that is longer - and can be used. I'll see if I can find and post a link.

Hope that helps.

-CM

Out of curiosity, if I removed the sidecar, could I continue to use the longer engine bolt on the scooter?

Just a quick reply to say... I like these thoughtful suggestions! Thanks. when I get some time, I'll take a look and start considering what approach I may try. Yes, I am an advanced beginner welder but that said the prospect of working with thin 1mm gauge scooter frame metal is intimidating. But mostly what you're talking about involved thicker bar etc. The pro tip is a smart mod - great idea.

My guess is probably yes, but just eye the area where the nut tightens for potential interference with the cowl etc.

Longer bolt should be fine - with or without sidecar frame.

Re welding: go for it!
There are just a few tricks I would apply.

1. to remove the plate that will be slid back, focus the angle cutter's cut off wheel on the weld. When you get close - use a wrench to move the plate a little to see what's still holding on.
2. Use a wire wheel and clean ALL of the paint off the tube within 4" of the area you will weld. You are going to repaint - so just get it off. Paint FUMES will also mess with your welding.
3. Once you get your plate off - use a flap disc or the edge of that cut off wheel and get rid of old weld so it will sit super flat on the tube.

*90% of your ability to weld nicely is having NO gap between your two parts.
4. Clamp. Use multiple vice grips or what ever is needed to hold the plate hard against your tube. That's the other 8%
5. Get your welder's head right in there - just 1/4 to3/8 inch away from the metal. You want short wire stick out. It will wildly improve outcome.

And finally, Don't try to weld the whole line at once. Start with a short 1/2" run, then pick up and move an inch and do another 1/2 ". This will keep it from getting too hot.

Everything is fixable. If you think that tubing is super thin, focus the heat a bit more on the plate and weave onto the tubing, then back down on the plate.

It will be as good or better as scooter99's expensive replacement.
🙂
Good luck with all.

Ok, you guys all seem like my best chance for answers to my question. I've been on these forums for a while, since I was restoring my '64 VBB.

When I originally purchased the scooter, I also got a sidecar and frame (see pics). Problem is, I'm having difficulty figuring out how to source a proper wheel hub, fender to mount an 8" wheel. I've receives suggestions about a trailer wheel/hub/fender, but ideally, I want the wheel to look like a vespa and same with fender. Alternatively, if I could find a complete frame and replace the one I have. any/all suggestions are welcome.
Thx, Josh