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Fri, 03 Mar 2023 15:32:49 +0000

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Fri, 03 Mar 2023 15:32:49 +0000 quote
Well not too tricky to remove in the end, saw your reply too late 😄

Glad I got it out as it is paper thin in too many places. Hard to pick up on camera. Would have been a nightmare to weld.

The big gaps in the panels that I pictured before were from rust and filler, really thick at certain points.

I've cut floor around 60mm shorter than the replacement panel now en-route to me.

More cleanup at the weekend but more progress each day 👍








Thin metal!

Fri, 03 Mar 2023 15:50:21 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Fri, 03 Mar 2023 15:50:21 +0000 quote
Makes me wish I had cut out my floor. Saving it took a long time.

The tunnel looks good. The floor replacement shouldn't be too hard.
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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 09:19:03 +0000

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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 09:19:03 +0000 quote
Yeah, tunnel in good shape. I'll clean it up some though and then at the moment my plan is to use rust paint called hammerite in the tunnel and flat seem as marked.

When the floor comes I will use hammerite on the inside tunnel facing side apart from the flat seem where I will need to use weld through primer for the spot welds. The other external part is the foot rest area. That can be prepped as normal for paint.

I will then use stone chip paint on the bottom external facing side of the floor.

Maybe I should also think about seam sealant that I can use after the floor is spot welded in. I or my son will be able to get our arm down the tunnel after to use the brush on stuff if needed?

This is the plan at the moment!

Feedback welcome 👍



Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:54:17 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 10:54:17 +0000 quote
That looks so good! I had such a hard time removing the spot welds.

Yep. On mine, the metal I removed was paper thin. It has disintegrated on the inside.

Suggestions:
1. Get a floorboard with the holes drilled for the floor rails if possible. Saves a LOT of time
2. It might be worth getting the inner fender. They're like $50. And even if you're just using a small part of it, it's much easier than fabricating.
3. Check the reinforcement plate in the legshield for rust. That's where the worst of it was for me. Water got between the plates. It's right above where you cut in the center.


This metal was paper thin


The rust on my reinforcement plate


Rear fender panel. They're all the same at the bottom (I think?)

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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 14:42:34 +0000

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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 14:42:34 +0000 quote
Thanks, wasn't too tricky but I had to drill a small 2mm hole in the spot welds first for the point on the hole cutter to sit in otherwise it went all over the place.

Yes, I ordered the one with all the holes pre-drilled, I think you or someone else mentioned that before and it stuck in my mind.

This is the one I bought and already in transit.

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/repair-sheet-floor-board_PV152769

I spent some time grinding back surface rust and paint in the rear arch area today and all good there too apart from the swiss cheese right at the top that is already cut out so will be a little bit of fabrication but I'm happy to do that.

There is some surface rust I can't get to easily in the marked area on my pic but will find my small dremel attachments for it along with some phosphoric acid.

It doesn't look like anything more than a tiny bit of surface rust for that support area but will know more when I cut the other 50mm or so when I can offer up the new floor.

Did you use seam sealer?



Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:40:54 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 17:40:54 +0000 quote
I'm using a 1k seam sealer by SEM that says that it can be welded through, at least with spot welding. I have never tried it as a weld through seam sealer, but it has held up for decades on other projects.

I know that such a thing exists. It's applied between metal seams that are welded together. There are also 2k versions. They are used much more often in vehicle manufacturing today.



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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 20:30:28 +0000

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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 20:30:28 +0000 quote
Thanks, I think I can apply weld through high zinc primer and then this or the 3M version of the sealer. I don't actually need the sealer to be weld through as once I offer up the floor I can remove the sealer that will be in the spot weld holes.

This video is useful.

Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:01:23 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:01:23 +0000 quote
Japtastic wrote:
Thanks, I think I can apply weld through high zinc primer and then this or the 3M version of the sealer. I don't actually need the sealer to be weld through as once I offer up the floor I can remove the sealer that will be in the spot weld holes.

This video is useful.

Sounds good. Thanks for sharing.
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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:01:30 +0000

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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:01:30 +0000 quote
Hmm mabe can't use weld through primer first before weld through seam sealer...

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/p/d/b40070792/

Note:
- Do not apply filler or other topcoat over 3M™ 50410 as this may causes lifting


Might be best to just apply the seam sealer direct to metal as it instructs. Shame, as I thought it would give a bit of extra protection but seems to be not needed.
Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:06:09 +0000

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Sat, 04 Mar 2023 22:06:09 +0000 quote
Japtastic wrote:
Hmm mabe can't use weld through primer first before weld through seam sealer...

https://www.3m.co.uk/3M/en_GB/p/d/b40070792/

Note:
- Do not apply filler or other topcoat over 3M™ 50410 as this may causes lifting


Might be best to just apply the seam sealer direct to metal as it instructs. Shame, as I thought it would give a bit of extra protection but seems to be not needed.
Yeah, just follow the TDS. They are never wrong. Lots of different ways to do this, but as you've cleaned it all out, you'll be fine.
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Mon, 06 Mar 2023 12:45:11 +0000

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Mon, 06 Mar 2023 12:45:11 +0000 quote
Spent a bit of time removing rust in the petrol tank area. Was a lot of it trapped by a bad bodge job with sealant before. Most rust was all in the corners.

Got lots out with the Dremel and wire brush and then finished off with sand blasting and phosphoric acid. Came up good. Shame I didn't get some before pics. Man that sandblasting is a dirty, messy job. Crap goes everywhere!

Also got the steel sheet delivered today so I can start cutting and shaping for the external repair pictured.


After Dremel and Sraping


After Sandblasting the edges


Rotten piece I cut out previously.



Last edited by Japtastic on Mon, 06 Mar 2023 18:56:18 +0000; edited 1 time
Mon, 06 Mar 2023 18:03:02 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Mon, 06 Mar 2023 18:03:02 +0000 quote
Wow. Great work!

The rotten part of the frame is really fortunate. It doesn't get into any of the complex curves or structural part of the frame.

The sealant, I think, was from the factory. It's kind of yellow color and rubbery?

I used 3m sealer on all the seams. The factory only sealed the rear fender, I believe.
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Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:37:26 +0000

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Mon, 06 Mar 2023 20:37:26 +0000 quote
Thanks.

Good job too as even making that simple part took a while! May get it tacked in tomrorow.

Yeah, it was but this stuff didn't look factory, at least I hope it wasn't. Maybe Friday afternoon after a few Peroni Was really badly applied and not uniform at all.
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Tue, 07 Mar 2023 15:03:05 +0000

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Tue, 07 Mar 2023 15:03:05 +0000 quote
Bit more time on the replacement piece. Cutting and drilling the spot weld sites etc. I needed the self tapping bolts to get it right. As they are carbon steel I will either leave them in and cut off the head and back side after spot welding or remove them and weld the holes shut.

The two bolts above are for the sheet metal part of the body that had lifted away once the old part was removed.

It's ready to be primed and spot welded in now but will wait for the floor tomorrow to offer everything up.







Tue, 07 Mar 2023 15:15:45 +0000

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Tue, 07 Mar 2023 15:15:45 +0000 quote
Nice work and good you didn't have to replace that whole piece. Btw, nice job drilling out the spotwelds on the tunnel section. I always make a mess when drilling them out.
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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:54:34 +0000

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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 16:54:34 +0000 quote
Floor board delayed so spent some more time sanding and planning!

I'm planning to seal the rear arch seams as it's seems sensible to keep the water out. What do you reckon?

If anyone has done that, where did you stop? I'm thinking that sealing this area circled might not be best as water may get in here and no be able to get out…?



Wed, 08 Mar 2023 18:14:13 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 18:14:13 +0000 quote
On mine, I had it blasted, then ospho in in the areas I couldn't get to.

Then used etch primer.

I didn't seal before welding, bc it seemed like it just burns off in welding.

After welding was done, I sealed every seam with this 3M stuff, which is what car factories use.

Seemed to be fine as long as you can prevent water from getting in.




The etch primer was green




after paint


There are so many places to seal.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:29:21 +0000

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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:29:21 +0000 quote
Thanks the pics are really helpful. My only worry is sealing it all up so well that when water does eventually find its way in somewhere it won't be able to escape.
Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:35:53 +0000

Molto Verboso
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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 21:35:53 +0000 quote
I wondered about that, too.

The factory doesn't seal any of those seams, but I wasn't sure if that was just that they're cheap.

The floorboard braces have vents in them.

My bike, the water got in from the top. The bike sat out so long that the seat disintegrated, and rain from the vent got in there.

That was really bad.

I've never seen bikes rust badly in normal use, but I live in California, where it doesn't rain a lot.

Seems like my bikes have gotten rained on and dried, and rust never formed in the seams.


Water getting in from this direction is really bad.

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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:37:30 +0000

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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 22:37:30 +0000 quote
Pretty rainy in England but will mostly be used in dry weather and will be garaged so shouldn't have a hard life from now on so what ever I do I'm hoping will be enough to have many year of no rust after all of this!
Wed, 08 Mar 2023 23:15:59 +0000

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Wed, 08 Mar 2023 23:15:59 +0000 quote
I seam sealed in the wheel well and the same places the hjo did. I also wondered whether some of the gaps in the seams were there to drain water from inside the tunnel. I sealed them anyway.

I agree that sitting out in the rain unused probably causes most of the rust. Seems like the plastic tunnel cover also gets tossed.
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 13:51:41 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 13:51:41 +0000 quote
This is how I sealed the inside. I used a moisture cured urethane that has a lot of aluminum in it. I set the scooter on its side and brushed it into the seam from the inside and left it overnight.


You can see where the rust paint formed a bead in the floor seam.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 14:09:41 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 14:09:41 +0000 quote
Looks a really good plan. And you did this all from above?
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 14:29:58 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 14:29:58 +0000 quote
Japtastic wrote:
Looks a really good plan. And you did this all from above?
Yes and through the brake pedal opening. The benefits of long skinny bendy arms.
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 16:12:33 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 16:12:33 +0000 quote
I just can't picture how that works but the photos don't lie
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 16:43:47 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 16:43:47 +0000 quote
sdjohn wrote:
I just can't picture how that works but the photos don't lie
I put the scooter on its side so the paint had no place to go but into the seam. Put paint on brush, reach in and run it along the seam. Gravity does the rest.
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:00:56 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:00:56 +0000 quote
long paint brushes?
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:14:38 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:14:38 +0000 quote
orwell84 wrote:
Yes and through the brake pedal opening. The benefits of long skinny bendy arms.
You should try a smallie. Those long skinny bendy arms will serve you well working on one of those. My big ol' meathooks, on the other hand...not so much.
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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:22:55 +0000 quote
Yeah I'm sure I can rope one of the kids in to doing that job 😄

Floor came today so I spent a bit of time cutting and test fitting it. It's a great fit apart from the rolled seems but they are very flat at the moment. I'm sure once I match them to the front faring it will look fine.

I hope to prime the tunnel tomorrow and then a few other bits before tacking the floor in place.









Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:38:25 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 17:38:25 +0000 quote
Japtastic wrote:
Yeah I'm sure I can rope one of the kids in to doing that job 😄

Floor came today so I spent a bit of time cutting and test fitting it. It's a great fit apart from the rolled seems but they are very flat at the moment. I'm sure once I match them to the front faring it will look fine.

I hope to prime the tunnel tomorrow and then a few other bits before tacking the floor in place.
Great progress! I made one of these to straighten out and shape the legshield and floor edges.



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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 18:15:20 +0000 quote
Yeah that looks perfect. What size rod and tube works well?

I forgot if this was answered already but I'm undecided on whether to recreate the factory seem or just do a straight piece of metal here. The floor comes with the seem bent upwards, I'd just reverse that and point in the direction of the bit I cut out that I need to fabricate.





Thu, 09 Mar 2023 18:35:18 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 18:35:18 +0000 quote
I would try to do something close to the factory seam because I'm OCD and the possibility that not doing it that way might cause something not to fit, though I can't think of anything at the moment. It's pretty easy anyway:
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 21:48:42 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 21:48:42 +0000 quote
I would keep as close to original as possible.

That one does actually look like it's designed to drain. It's angled down and porous. I'm guessing that's why it's there?

The earlier versions angled up and were sealed. But that's why my Rally rusted so badly. Water got in and didn't escape until the metal rusted through.

One other thing. The bolts for the center stand really helped position the floor.

It was so nice. The one I got was Carlucci. I think yours might be the same.


This is the pre-PX design. It was easy to attach.


A 1980 P200. I can see how this is an improvement. The water from the wheel has no seams to settle in.


What the older style looks like inside.

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 22:07:50 +0000 quote
Yeah I see what you mean now. Great reference pics to have.

I've got a few bits on the tunnel seam that could do with repair but instead of doing that I was thinking of just drilling the seam rather than the floor if you see what I mean. Basically spot weld the other way round to your pics. I can't think of any reason why not to do it this way or any disadvantage?
Thu, 09 Mar 2023 23:09:11 +0000

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Thu, 09 Mar 2023 23:09:11 +0000 quote
It looks like the flap part on your floorboard is much shorter than the one that folds up.

The welds on top, I kind of did both, bc I replaced a lot of metal.

On the areas where it's three layers, I did the top part first, then the floorboard, and both have those plug/spot welds.

The disadvantage to doing it on the top is that it's harder to grind, and easier to burn the metal in a place that's noticeable.


I fried the rounded part here, and had to recreate the curve with filler.


This is after blasting. It came out pretty well, but I am a very amateur welder. I had to go over everything a few times.

Fri, 10 Mar 2023 00:14:24 +0000

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Fri, 10 Mar 2023 00:14:24 +0000 quote
hjo wrote:
It looks like the flap part on your floorboard is much shorter than the one that folds up.

The welds on top, I kind of did both, bc I replaced a lot of metal.

On the areas where it's three layers, I did the top part first, then the floorboard, and both have those plug/spot welds.

The disadvantage to doing it on the top is that it's harder to grind, and easier to burn the metal in a place that's noticeable.
Lol. I'm a pretty experienced welder and have to go everything a few times…if I'm lucky . 😉
Fri, 10 Mar 2023 00:25:22 +0000

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Fri, 10 Mar 2023 00:25:22 +0000 quote
orwell84 wrote:
Lol. I'm a pretty experienced welder and have to go everything a few times…if I'm lucky . 😉
I didn't realize you could do that at first! It makes it much less stressful, and everything is fixable.
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Fri, 10 Mar 2023 08:23:26 +0000 quote
Yeah, this is the piece I need to re-create. I'll try to match it to factory. Lots of mistakes are going to happen, I'm sure! I've been practising my TIG welding on lots of spare sheet metal I had. It's time to test my skills (or lack of) on the real thing!



Fri, 10 Mar 2023 13:23:08 +0000

Molto Verboso
Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1745
Location: northern New York
 
Molto Verboso
Joined: Fri, 14 Oct 2016 21:32:14 +0000
Posts: 1745
Location: northern New York
Fri, 10 Mar 2023 13:23:08 +0000 quote
hjo wrote:
I didn't realize you could do that at first! It makes it much less stressful, and everything is fixable.
It's part of sheet metal repair on any kind of vehicle. Even the best aftermarket parts seem to require a lot of fiddling to get right and some cheating is required. I always get voids and pinholes in my weld seams that I have to go over. You did an outstanding job on that Rally.
OP
Fri, 10 Mar 2023 14:37:22 +0000

Enthusiast
ET2 + PX
Joined: Thu, 02 Feb 2023 20:48:23 +0000
Posts: 84

 
OP
Enthusiast
ET2 + PX
Joined: Thu, 02 Feb 2023 20:48:23 +0000
Posts: 84

Fri, 10 Mar 2023 14:37:22 +0000 quote
Yep was a bit of fiddling to get this match correctly and like you say never perfect on these replacement parts.

Bit of epoxy primer today!

Rally?



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