Modern Vespa

I think it's fine to go over original factory paint with epoxy primer once it's sanded and clean. The original paint is near bulletproof and chemically inert.

Ok cool, yeah I was surprised how hard it was. I was expecting 60 grit to fly through it.

Probably best to remove the paint if there's rust.

I had mine blasted at a powder coating shop. And it wasn't too expensive.

Check to see if there are any defects in the paint. Pitting, surface rust coming through the paint. If there are rust spots on top of the paint, there is more beneath.

The worst parts tend to be the fork, the inner front fender.

Are you going to replace the aluminum leg shield trim?

I'll make a few test spots to see if any rust hiding. Is there a better way than sanding?

Yes, I'll replace it. Not sure why I haven't removed it yet.

media blasting is definitely the easiest route.

then probably chemical stripping, and cleaning up with a wire brush.

If the paint underneath is ok, sanding it with high grit sandpaper to make it smooth, and porous enough to take new paint, is what body shops generally do.

It really depends on if there's rust under the paint. If that's the case, best to get it all off.

Old original paint in good condition makes a great base for a respray. The original Max Meyer coating was tough as nails. But yes, any rust spots showing through will come back, so inspect and remove. Try a lower grit paper or a nylon abrasive wheel.


https://www.mcmaster.com/abrasive-wheels/nylon-mesh-cushioned-arbor-mount-sanding-discs

Thanks all, need to try and find a few hours to tackle it!

Yeah the original base coat is super resilient, even against paint stripper. What's with that?

Be sure to wear a respirator and do it outdoors if possible. That's probably lead paint, and while we're past the point of it making us too stupid, breathing it unnecessarily is still Not A Good Idea.

I also always wear hearing protection, not just for my ears, because at least for me, being around the noise is tiring in and of itself.

I stripped my last two bikes to bare metal before painting. It's the best option, but a LOT more work than just knocking off any rough spots and priming.

My VBB had been heavily skim coated, so it had to go all the way down and the smallie was rattlecanned, plus will be getting a new floorboard, along with a bunch of other welding so I guess it'll get the bare metal treatment, too, at least on all the visible surfaces. The wheel well, for example, will probably not get the full bare metal treatment, because it's...well...the wheel well, and also probably the hardest part to get stripped.

Yeah that's a good shout about the paint, I probably would have forgotten that and just worn a normal face mask.

Really have to pick my days to do it outside as we seem to be getting April showers in the UK early as it's raining nearly every day at the moment

The paint on mine is in generally pretty good nick with no previous repairs/bondo or resprays etc.

I always wear ear protection now (well the last 5 years or so) as I find the same and also my tinnitus makes my ears super sensitive to those kinds of noises.

10 years of a mis spent youth in the 90's standing next to speakers at raves in the East end of London and 25+ years of not bothering while working with power tools has caught up with me! 🙈

The original Max Meyer "Bi-Lux" paint was a super hard concoction with an off-the-charts VOC (volatile organic compound) content. The solvents it contained made it extremely durable, but alas, were extremely toxic and have long since been restricted or banned outright for environmental and health reasons.

I use larger versions of the fiber discs on an angle grinder. It's about the best thing I found. Slower going with the smaller discs on a drill. Wire wheel on a drill for tight spots. You have to keep the angle grinder moving because it builds up heat. Make multiple passes and don't let it linger to get it all off at once.

Picked up one of these earlier. Game changer! Has allowed me to cover most of the problem areas really quickly. Thanks for the recommendation!

https://www.toolstation.com/abracs-poly-abrasive-disc/p22693

Not much of an update but I wanted to test an area of expoy / filler to see how it worked with my seams.

I painted the epoxy on, sauna cured it 😄 then used filler. I used way too much filler but easy enough to sand back and blend in. Progress little by little. I won't have much time this coming week but next job is primer prep for the whole body. I spent some time going over all the seams and any error that looked like rust could be there and there is very little so I may well just sand the rest with 120 grit in prep for Epoxy all over.

Nearly 2 weeks with no work on it! Have been away with the family, catching up with work and then waiting for the weather to improve slightly so I could sand the rest of the paint outside in prep for Epoxy primer. Got a few hours done today. The paint on 90% of the bike is in really good condition so I don't see the value on going back to bare metal.

What are my options on keeping these stickers? Or do I just remove and get some new ones made up?

I would mask them off personally. They are well worth having on the bike assuming they are original. You don't need to be perfect in that area as it's behind the engine cowl, but well worth taking your time and doing the best you can.

Looks good. I would just mask off the stickers. I don't see any need to take it to bare metal if the factory paint is in good shape with no rust.

Thanks chaps, will mask it off.

Looking at masks for 2K spraying at the moment. What do you chaps use? Full face or half face with seperate goggles?

Half w/goggles, but it's just a personal preference. The important thing is to get something that fits snug with a good seal. Go with a name brand, like 3M. If you can smell the paint while you're spraying it's not working.

Thanks, just getting everything ready. Got the fan, dust sheets, filter material etc. Still loads of prep to do first anyway but getting there! I reckon I should be able to respray some time in the next couple of weeks.

So finally some more progress. Scooter time is hard to find sometimes!

Managed to finish prepping the paint for epoxy primer and paint it.

Just started sanding it back ready for fixing lots of little issues with filler and glaze. I imagine that's going to take me another few days.

I keep going back and forth with paint colour. Need to make a decision soon and order it!

Looks good. Can't help you with color. You may have heard about the summer of citrus. This is the winter of grey. Still sanding my 200, but got distracted by engine tinkering.

Thanks, I'm actually looking forward to the engine tinkering. Taking a long time to sort this frame out!

Hunter green

Might be late in the game for this 2 cents.

From my personal experience, Painting wet (not fully cured on the 72hrs) on top of epoxy give better adhesion than mechanical adhesion (scuffing the surface after it's fully hardened). Mechanical adhesion ended up with cracking surfacer primer and base coat (colour) and coming off in thin chunks after a year or so. Probably due to vibrations on smaller bikes.

Well, yes and no. I can always spray another coat of Epoxy once I have all the imperfections sorted and then the 2K.

I'll check and the info sheets for the epoxy and paint I'll be using.

It's an interesting point you make about the vibrations and why it may have flaked off. Do you remember what grit your primer was sanded back to and the specific products you used?

Does everyone else here use the same method of spraying within 72 hours of laying down epoxy?

It all depends upon what the paint manufacturer specifies for their paint system. When i was shooting PPG, i would spray my sealer coat about an hour before i would lay down my base coat (color), then another hour i would spray the clear. If paint is flaking off because of engine vibrations, then something drastically bad happened during your prep! Make sure to read the data sheet for the primer and paint!!!

Yeah used Eastwood epoxy and poly primer surfacer. Followed the TDS to a T. When doing it, might as well follow the hours and hours someone's taken to put a TDS together for the benefit of the end user. Think it makes sense.

I used 320 then 400 grit before applying the poly primer.

First time cracks appeared, I second guessed myself and thought I might have put too much catalyst/hardener. So took it off and did it again from the epoxy stage. Let it dry for about 5 days, sanded, surfacer, then base coat. Still happened around the floorboard at the rear and around the center stand.

Did a bunch of small paint repairs within 1-2 days and they've all held up so far.

Wow, that's alot of work and commitment to do it all again! Thanks for the info. The Epoxy Primer I'm using is this:

https://u-pol.com/product/raptor-bed-liner-protective-coating/raptor-accessories/anti-corrosive-epoxy-primer/

The paint I'm not 100% sure yet. I'm nervous about the 2K Iso so have been looking in to the non-iso stuff. Seems to get good reviews without the danger!

https://www.hmgpaint.com/products/all-products/topcoat/1012/nisocoat-hs

Painting is almost a black art. When it fails it can be a mystery. I've never had anything I did lift or crack. I would tend to blame filler more than paint.

I like to have primer fully cured before final sanding. The respray on my scooter looked pretty good. It looked like decent automotive paint. Unfortunately, it was peeling off in places. In all the places where it would be harder to sand. Poor prep for sure.

For chemical adhesion, I would want to apply topcoat as soon as early as possible in the recoat window.

Wasn't the whole frame again, but good chunks of it… mostly around the leg shield and floor board area which was blended in.

You know it didn't adhere properly when the cracked paint delaminates leaving the epoxy in perfect place.

I ended up using Sikkens LV 2k for colour. Just mask up properly and I think you'll be good.

I don't. The epoxy is just the base for the rest of the body work, which usually takes way longer than 72 hours. Some people keep their cars in epoxy for months!

When you're satisfied with the body work, give it a "seal coat" of reduced epoxy, then topcoat within the chemical adhesion window.

To thick of a coat?

Possibly, or sketchy prep. I didn't paint it. At one point I had masked it with painters tape to sandblast.The paint came off with the tape, original paint underneath.

I think I'm going to have my expectations a bit more realistic than I have in my head anyway. I'll shoot for perfection and then see where I end up. Having the paint adhere properly would be the first goal!

This is the first thing I'm spray painting with a gun and I don't see it as the easiest. So many curves etc. I'll do the cowls, glove box, mud guard etc first to get some experience.

What grit are you chaps ending up with? I'm still undecided about colour but it's probably going to be either a French Blue or White.

Depends on the paint. The TDS will tell you what grit the paint will cover and adhere to without scratches showing through. Follow the manufacturer's instructions.

You'll be fine. Look at this thread for some inspiration.

bodywork - over my head

And worse comes to worse, shoot an extra coat and you can just wet-sand/color-sand the whole thing to get it nice n' shiny. VERY labor-intensive, but that's what I wound up doing with my VBB and it looks great.

Also, a little shameless self-promotion, but I did a number of youtube videos as I was fumbling my way through paint & bodywork.

Fixing the GL and the VBB RestoMod both cover a lot of paint and bodywork (mis-)adventures.

Thanks, I did read through your thread before a while ago but will read it again now to refresh the memory!