Modern Vespa

I'm on the cusp of buying my last scooter.
It'll be new, to maximize riding and minimize wrenching. Plus, warranty.
It'll be in the 150cc class, because it's highly unlikely I'll be taking any long two wheeled trips since I just didn't enjoy duking it out on the slab, even when I had my Silver Wing and 650 Burgie. Plus, retiree budget.

My requirements:
-14-16 inch wheels;
-ABS;
-sustained (20 minutes) 55mph speed capability, with a little reserve, because the connector roads from my subdivision into town require it;
-good ergonomics and a comfortable seat(My GT200 and GTS300 were pretty much perfect; my Majesty ergos were acceptable but wide);
-a selection of accessories for farkling;
-out the door around $5500 max.

I've narrowed it down to:
-Liberty 150, $4400 OTD from AF1 Austin or Plano Kawasaki (bought out Vespa Dallas). There's no local Piaggio group dealer in my town.
-Honda PCX 160, $5500 OTD from my local Honda dealer.

The Liberty is $1100 cheaper, classier looking to my eye, has a mostly flat floor, and sits better;
The Honda is 12 mph faster and has 2 local dealerships. The seat's a little hard and the stepover is higher.

I can afford either.

XMAX, BV400, HPE are not in consideration due to price. Used bikes are not in consideration because of bank financing and personal fatigue from renewing used bikes for 40 years.

Feedback from owners/former owners of these two machines (or comparable new competitors) would be appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

I haven't ridden either, but I did spend 3 weeks on a Click 160 (which I believe has the same engine). I'd almost exclusively ridden HPEs before that, and I was impressed with the acceleration of the Click. It never felt underpowered.

Check if both wheels have ABS. The Airblade I'm on now is only front wheel ABS, so you can still lock the back and fishtail.

The PCX is supposed to be Honda's most comfortable scooter. I might rent one next week.

I haven't ridden either one. But I have a couple of friends who have them.
Since you want to buy new and do less of the wrenching yourself, I would check the 3-5 year routine maintenance cost for both of these bikes. That includes the cost of labor and the parts to do the scheduled maintenance. That will be the deciding factor if both of them are similar in riding and comfort.

I've never ridden one (i have sat on one), but people say a lot of good things about the Yamaha Nmax, especially if you're considering the PCX?

https://www.carolenash.com/tips-guides/bike-reviews/detail/125cc-scooter-shootout-honda-pcx-125-v-yamaha-nmax

It's a pretty safe bet that a $2000 used pcx isn't gonna need any more maintenance than a new one.

Find me one within 250 miles of Abilene, TX, for $2000 and I'm your huckleberry. There's a 650 Burgie in town for $2200, but it's got 40k miles, and, having owned one, it's too heavy for me to paddle around in traffic and parking lots.

Believe me, I've looked. No title, damaged bodywork, way overpriced, fluids have never been serviced, 10 year old tires, etc., etc. West Texas is not a hotbed of scooter activity.

I have just under 30,000 miles on my Liberty 150 and still love it. A co-worker had a PCX and it was very comfortable. So I see why your'e trapped with this decision. Service wise, Liberty. My valves are pretty easy to check, along with everything else. I hear the Honda is very involved in panel removal. Again, tough choice.

SYM has the Jet 14 200i IF you have a dealer nearby, I have a dealer nearby but have yet to see one in person.

Let us know what you end up with!

You might also consider the Suzuki Burgman 200. A true 200cc engine with plenty of speed, low seat height and pretty comfy, large under seat storage. A club mate has one and really loves it.

Not sure the Yamaha Nmax is available in the U.S.

yes, looks like you're right

pity, over here the Honda PCX and Yamaha Nmax are the top sellers

Kymco People 150?

Agree with kz, KYMCO is a great option IF you have a dealer nearby. I loved my first Gen. People 250. That thing was a tank! This new People is very nice and that green color!

So my other wild card nomination: Honda Super Cub.

Put me down for the Liberty 150.

I have ridden both. I think the liberty was a better ride, but I don't know about top speed of either.

I'm extremely happy with my Liberty. Even my hubby who rides his old classic Honda 650 bike loves it. I haven't ridden any other scooter so can't compare. Did I say I LOVE my Liberty?

I'm a scooter delivery rider, I had a PCX 125 for three years, did 57,000 miles on it (included the COVID years). Never missed a beat, I found it very comfortable but obviously comfort is subject etc.

I only swapped it for a SH 125 because Honda didn't have any PCX's in the country to sell.

I took my Liberty 150i S from the box in 2017 --- and have loved every month of ownership!
My Vespa dealer's tent was folded for him by a small Ohio tornado shortly after my purchase! Seriously.
So I've no dealer support....and have never needed it. I DIY the maintenance by the service schedule, including the valves, wheels off for new tires, etc. I use the AF1-racing Piaggio service manual download for this model (less than $10 the last time I looked), and also use them for parts. (rollers, belts, filters)

To my eye - the Liberty is the best looking 150 in the States period!


I've owned 4 or 5 Honda motorcycles and a Honda 300 scooter (Forza) - and I have loved owning them. Good looking and well made, quality throughout! - 3 local Honda dealerships!!

Folks love their PCX. (I was on that forum for years) Though the valve adjustment procedure starts at the tail-light and moves forwards....so most owners rationalize why adjustments are not needed....yet! It does have water cooling - which many of us like to avoid!

If I had a local Honda dealer, and did not have a local Piaggio dealer - and this was my sunset scooter - I would buy the PCX, and stop looking at photos of that pretty Liberty!

O.S.
*plus the PCX will have some comfortable 'reserve' past 55mph which you are looking for

I'll post one suggestion: the Yamaha SMax - as it reportedly has a top speed of 70. I sat on one a few weeks ago - good ergos, very nicely finished.

I don't see the SMax listed in the Yamaha powersports lineup for 2023. Has it been discontinued in the US? If so, that is too bad. I've heard good things about it.

The Yamaha SMax was discontinued (i think 2020 was the last year).

I bought a 2015 Smax to use for Cannonball this summer. The biggest complaint regarding the Smax is the stock seat forces you into a cramped riding position. The seat hump was removed by the previous owner on mine.

Bone stock with ~ 5,000 miles on it, mine will hit 70 MPH per my GPS. So it's pretty quick for a 155cc. 62-65 MPH is a more realistic speed that can be held easily.

Last bike, you don't want to be fixing it all the time and you want to take advantage of factory financing. These are practical, and not emotional, needs.
One of those companies has their own finance company, and can offer better rates. One of them is known for reliability. One of them has two dealers in your area, and excellent parts support.

If they were cars, it would be like choosing between a Fiat and the equivalent Toyota, except that there's probably a Fiat dealer nearby.

Truth

But how do you define "in your area"? I was seriously dreading hauling my Liberty almost 100 miles for a check engine light, to the point of just replacing it! But I found a so far/so good servicing dealer 10 miles from my house. It not only prompted me to keep my Liberty but to maybe, and I said maybe, consider a BV400 next.
I'm a Honda guy and I picked a Liberty over the PCX. I also don't care for the ADV version. But that's my opinion.
I love some KYMCO products but the brand gets passed around to so many dealers in my area. Longest selling dealer you ask? Two years.
SYM also does nice stuff but in the States the words "Carter Brothers" still looms large.
I had a Yamaha Zuma 125 and it was okay. I'm done with that brand.
I had a Burgman 200 and gave it away to a friend. It wasn't a terrible scooter but it didn't weather well and was a total PITA to self service.
So in the event a dealer is needed it's nice to know I have one nearby.

That is a very good looking scooter but the Sprint, she is a beauty too

You would never guess it from how they are sold in the US, but SYM is huge compared to Kymco. They haven't tried to distribute their own products in the US, and that's probably held them back the most. Kymco came in to the US market right as gas was going up a lot, promised dealers huge profits, and decided to bring everything they had. Gas went down and they realized the US does not buy scooters. Had they pushed their ATVs hard from the beginning, they would probably be in a better position in the US. I suspect Kawasaki sells more Kymcos than Kymco does in this market.

your nearby dealer is a Piaggio/Vespa dealer?....or is it a scooter/motorcycle dealer who has proven capable of can servicing your Liberty?
Which?

O.S.

There's a lot to be said for having access to professionals who are familiar with the brand if you just bought it and the fuel pump fails, or the engine self destructs, or even if a light comes on that shouldn't.

Thanks everyone. I'm going to give the PCX a test ride tomorrow at my local dealer. Everything I've read and watched online gives it an edge in speed and storage. I'll have to see if the high stepover and limited foot space are too annoying.

The local Honda dealer situation(2)was also a factor. I couldn't get past the two nearest Piaggio dealers being 3 1/2 hours away in unpleasant traffic. An 8 hour day plus a trailer rental for warranty servicing (if something did fail I couldn't fix) didn't make sense.

Stay tuned.

nope

"Selection of farkles...."
If you were to do very much to the Liberty150i.....it would be ....not too good.
Fortunately Piaggio offers few farkles.
Cases, screens, locks.
I managed to snag a custom paint-matched top case from scooterwest. Red painted over brown....because Piaggio doesn't offer a color matched top case for the red S model. Never heard how many of these scooterwest made.
O.S.

I love my 2022 PCX 150A (ABS model) which I purchased new in August 2022. I only have 1500+ miles on it, but I would recommend it.

Pros: Freeway capable - 69 mph top speed for a 225 lbs. rider (speed governed?), but expect to be significantly slower (sub-50 mph) on very steep hills; super reliable (at 1500 miles anyway); wide dealer network; well-designed (e.g. - when I dropped a screw while installing a tall windshield, the screw was filtered into a funnel and soooo easy to retrieve, NOT at all like a dropped screw on my GTS 300); aftermarket parts available; 80 miles per gallon when driving aggressively; shocks handle Connecticut's terribly maintained roads well; 1st oil change was simple (no oil filter to replace); ABS and limited slip (with 150A ABS model).

Cons: rear drum brakes (unbelievable, right?); very high step over (compared to GTS 300); limited wind protection for legs/feet when compared to GTS 300 (I'm 6'2" with a size 15 foot, and must use over-pants for 3 seasons in CT); aftermarket parts are available but mine had to be shipped from Thailand (custom seat with more leg room) and Italy (tall windshield); slower than GTS 300 (but faster than a Liberty); 4,000 mile valve check/adjustment (could be similar to Liberty?); liquid cooling necessitates coolant changes every 2 years whereas the Liberty is air-cooled (I think); unsure about my ability to do my own maintenance due to lots of plastic panels; unknown costs for more labor-intensive maintenance (I did my own 1st oil change)

I guess not all that unbelievable as the Liberty also has a rear drum.

They do.

Most 125-150 scooters have a rear drum brake. There's not anything gained by putting a disk on the rear, and this is a displacement that is very price competitive around the world.
With the new EU ABS/linked braking requirements, you will see a lot of them forced to switch to disk brake rear. Tjere are models already that have disks in the rear in Europe and drums in the US and Asian markets.

Well, the PCX was a bust, for me at least. At WOT it was struggling to crack 55 on level ground into a light wind, which was not unexpected, but still less than I wanted.

The bigger problem was the ride. Over some light washboard on a 4 lane artery road at 45mph, the ride was punishing. And every pavement seam and height change went straight up my spine. After a 10 minute test loop, my back and hips were actually aching. That didn't even happen on my Indian shifties.

So, the search continues. I'll keep searching the internet for something new enough to not need a lot of work, and old enough not to be unaffordable.

Thanks to all.

I am surprised you did no like the Honda. It is what it is.
As already mentioned there is a Burgman 200 that might be
super for you. I had my Burgman for 16 years - serviced
correctly - never failed me.

Good luck in your search. I found the 150cc level not getting
up and going for my liking. Not enough power - fun to ride.

In my old age (74), I will always keep my Dragon Red GTS300 Super
Vespa for scooting around.

Bob Copeland

^^^👍🏽👍🏽

In the right situations, flat to mildly rolling hills, one up, the 150cc Vespas are an absolute joy to ride in suburbs and cities.

But the 300cc Vespas never leave you under powered, giant hills,
2 up, stiff headwinds, no problem, no drama, they just purr along with the fastest of traffic.

25BikeZ

Too bad you're not in SoCal, if you bide your time, $5K gets you a fresh 2018 version GTS 300 and $6k range gets you a fresh as
he🏒🏒 HPE

I got a well maintained, super clean 2018 GTS 300 under 2000 miles, with high quality accessories for 5K and IMO much nicer than these 2 add examples.

Also I know you're done with wrenching but these modern Vespas are super easy to work on and so there is so much resources for info, parts and cheap specialty tools, it's more like tinkering than work

I hear you. The two centers of gravity for non-Japanese scooters around here are the Dallas-Fort Worth Metroplex and Keep Austin Weird, so that's where used ones occasionally pop up. Austin is where I picked up my GT200, and DFW my GTS300 and MP3. I look at CL and Marketplace every day but, in my estimation, the prices are usually too high. As a retiree, there's a difference in my brain between $2k down/make payments on a new bike and $5-$6k lump sum for a used bike. But, hope springs eternal. I'll keep looking.

These are the Piaggio top cases sold as an accessory for the Liberty 150 2018>2023.
Offered in Black, shades of Brown, Shades of Grey, White, Silver, shades of Blue, ....and maybe some matte colors.

I have never seen one in the Rosso Ibis 884/A color, which matches my 2018S Liberty150i.
Piaggio recommended that the all black case be paired with these 2018 red S models.
Vespamotorsport took some (one?) of the brown cases and had it re-painted Rosso Ibis 884/A. It is now a perfect match for my scooter.

You may well be correct - in that Piaggio made more of the Rosso Ibis 884/A top cases as accessories for the Liberty.

But, I've never seen one in a Piaggio/Liberty accessory listing, or for sale, or a photo of one.

O.S.

Are you absolutely certain the PCX you test drove was a 2022 model? On level ground into a light wind, at WOT, my PCX will hit 60 - 65 mph, especially with the stock windshield installed. And I'm a big guy at 6'2" and 225 pounds. Consider this: a 2022 Liberty makes 12.9 horsepower and weighs 255 pounds (0.0506 horsepower per pound), while a 2022 PCX 150 makes 15.8 horsepower and weighs 286 pounds (0.0552 horsepower per pound). So my assumption is that the PCX is going to be faster at WOT... Is that correct?

Also, the suspension on my 2022 is almost as good as the suspension on the 2018 GTS 300 that it replaced (in terms of absorbing impact).

I would definitely check to make sure you didn't test drive a leftover 2020 with the old engine. If the 2022 PCX is too slow for you, then it is unlikely the 150cc class is going to meet your needs. Maybe try a Burgman 200?