OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
I bought the bellows, and all my parts, from Scooter Mercado. I've always been happy with all their products.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
There is a knack to doing this. Here's a picture tutorial lucky bear...
Heat up the bellow to make it plyable
Heat up the bellow to make it plyable
Notice the notch in the body connection and the block in the rubber
Notice the notch in the body connection and the block in the rubber
Put your fingers through the rubber and start at the back notch and stretch the back on from the notch up
Put your fingers through the rubber and start at the back notch and stretch the back on from the notch up
Then finish finessing the rubber around the rest of the front from the inside until it's on
Then finish finessing the rubber around the rest of the front from the inside until it's on
Now for the carb side. Start at the bottom and back and work from the inside, stretching on the top and front
Now for the carb side. Start at the bottom and back and work from the inside, stretching on the top and front
This takes a couple of tries until
This takes a couple of tries until
It's on and you're done!
It's on and you're done!
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
You make it look easy qascooter. I'll give it a try following your step-by-step. Thanks
@kowalski avatar
UTC

Addicted
2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 513
Location: MA
 
Addicted
@kowalski avatar
2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 513
Location: MA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
I bought the bellows, and all my parts, from Scooter Mercado. I've always been happy with all their products.
Mercato sells both. If you bought it a la carte, it's the Piaggio one. If it came in a box with an assortment of other "rubber" bits, it's the Indian one.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3140
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3140
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
Kowalski wrote:
Mercato sells both. If you bought it a la carte, it's the Piaggio one. If it came in a box with an assortment of other "rubber" bits, it's the Indian one.
That's good to know. Since I have accumulated so many extras and can tell them apart now, I order a la carte.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
It was an individual purchase so I guess I'm good.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
GOTCHA, YA BASTARD!

Thanks Qascooter, I followed your instructions and finally got the new bellows on Red Rover... it was a son of a bitch though.

I've also replaced the old fuel and oil lines and once I've run an extra pair of wires from the horncast to the battery box, I'll drop the gas tank back into place.

I'm not ready to go back to the electrical problems yet so I'll probably hook up the speedometer next.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Yay - good job!
UTC

Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1937
Location: Philadelphia
 
Molto Verboso
1958 Allstate 177VMC, 1962 Allstate, Yamaha Vino 70cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1937
Location: Philadelphia
UTC quote
I found heating it up to be the ONLY way to go about getting that mf'er on.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Yes, using a hair dryer really helped
@langolson avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa 125 VMA, Vespa SS 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 213
Location: Minneapolis, MN
 
Hooked
@langolson avatar
Vespa 125 VMA, Vespa SS 180
Joined: UTC
Posts: 213
Location: Minneapolis, MN
UTC quote
I boil water and drop the rubber parts in for a soak before installing them. Makes them a lot easier to install.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
I read somewhere that the P200 fuel line must be exactly 24 inches long… is that true? I just bought a P200 line but It just barely stretches to fit. Is there any reason I can't use a line a few inches longer ? The original measures about 25-26 inches.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3140
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3140
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
I read somewhere that the P200 fuel line must be exactly 24 inches long… is that true? I just bought a P200 line but It just barely stretches to fit. Is there any reason I can't use a line a few inches longer ? The original measures about 25-26 inches.
I'm not sure about the exact length, but it has to be right so it doesn't kink, but also not have too much slack so that gravity can bring fuel from the tank to the carb.

I found that the clear oil hose commonly available is a bit loose on the carb box nipple and requires tight clamping. At least it is on my 200, though not on the Stella. It slipped off on mine resulting in a seized piston.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
I've drilled out the steering column lock on a P200 before and it was pretty straight forward. Can I do the same with the lock on the glove box or is it different because of the way it is built?
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Is there any reason I can't drill out the old glove box lock which is identical to the attached and replace it with a new one?
Replacement lock
Replacement lock
@geeklion avatar
UTC

The Dude
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1673
Location: PNW from LBC
 
The Dude
@geeklion avatar
Too Many piles of Junk that need too much work and too much money
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1673
Location: PNW from LBC
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Is there any reason I can't drill out the old glove box lock which is identical to the attached and replace it with a new one?
Totally doable and acceptable.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Drill baby drill. Drill, drill, drill, drill, drill!! Razz emoticon
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
I've replaced the hard-as-a-rock gas line and oil line and I am now replacing the gas tank. I need to install the grommet that goes around the oil sightglass. Is it easier to install the grommet before I replace the gas tank or after I replace it?
Any hints or suggestions?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Warm the grommet up, lube it up (I use 303 Protectant), then start at the narrowest area and work it in with a tiny screwdriver, or a little bigger screwdriver.

And patience - lots and lots of patience. Remember the air baffle....
When you can install the oil sight glass rubber grasshopper....
When you can install the oil sight glass rubber grasshopper....
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3140
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3140
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
That sight glass….it always gives me trouble. I always schmooze the grommet in with dish soap after the sight glass is in.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Ok, I'm at the point now that I want to try to start Red Rover but because I've had so many problems with electrical matters I want to begin with the basics. I have disconnected all the lights and I have the White, Red and (good) green wire running from the stator to the CDI. If I disconnect the Dreaded Green Wire at the ignition switch and bypass the ignition switch completely, I should have power to the spark plug... isn't that right? Or is there something else I need to do?
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Nope, that's it. Give it a kick. Just have a way to shut it off. By killing the fuel, choke, or reconnecting the kill switch wire.

And set up your phone and film it so we can all watch!
@grandpanate avatar
UTC

Hooked
'71 Rally 180,'81 P200, 1979 Vespa 90(125), 2023 Ducati Scrambler Pro Stealth
Joined: UTC
Posts: 283
Location: Tempe, Arizona
 
Hooked
@grandpanate avatar
'71 Rally 180,'81 P200, 1979 Vespa 90(125), 2023 Ducati Scrambler Pro Stealth
Joined: UTC
Posts: 283
Location: Tempe, Arizona
UTC quote
Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooo it!!!!!! Kick Kick Kick!!!!!!
@oopsclunkthud avatar
UTC

Banned
3:5
Joined: UTC
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Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
@oopsclunkthud avatar
3:5
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Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
I normally install the grommet before the tank. it should have slack between the frame and the grommet, so I slide it as high as it will go to start and let the site glass determine where it needs to be at the end.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
No success in getting Red Rover started even though I have fuel, spark and air. I get a couples of pops when I use ether but not enough to get it running. Of course, it may be all my fault. I'm still recovering from a broken leg so my Kicking Power is limited. I can only work at it for a few minutes at a time but hopefully it will get better with time.

In the meantime, I'm going to drill out the lock on the glove box. I'm hoping that the ignition, steering column and seat keys are in there along with some of the parts I'm missing. The PO told me that there might be gold coins in there too but I'm not giving much credence to that.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
No gold. In fact, the glove compartment was empty, much to my surprise. Now I'll replace the lock and then drill out the steering column lock and replace it. Finally I'll install a new seat lock. All three locks are keyed alike so that will be convenient.

In the meantime I'm still trying to get the engine to start. Lots of kicking in my future.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
That tape probably had the serial number on it. Mine was on the inside legshield, on masking tape.
⚠️ Last edited by qascooter on UTC; edited 1 time
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5111
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5111
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
Since youre so trusting, i'll trade you a handful of magic beans for your scooter?
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
That tape probably had the serial number on it. Mine was on the inside legshield, on masking tape.
No, it was just a piece of tape with nothing on it. I have the customary ID plate with the serial number on the steering column. As a side note, the serial number is 789 making it one of the first P200s ever built. That means that it is either a classic highly-collectable unit or a piece of shit unit that was still going through the experimental stage.

Time will tell
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
MJRally wrote:
Since youre so trusting, i'll trade you a handful of magic beans for your scooter?
How many beans?

Looking at how much trouble I"m having getting it going, I'd consider it.
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
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UTC quote
You have an oldie, maybe one of the first 600 sold to the public. Mine was made in '77, but sold in '78 and listed as a '78 on Scooterhelp w/ *13268* serial number. The weird thing is they start at 222, not at 001 as you might expect. I guess Piaggio tested or just kept the first 221.

Economy market, base model - mine has no turn signals, no oil injection nor any battery and I like that.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
It was imported as a Rally200 maybe because no blinkers, more likely because Motor Star was sketchy, maybe had import licenses for only some Rallys - they went belly up shortly after(tnx SaFiS for inside info)
It was imported as a Rally200 maybe because no blinkers, more likely because Motor Star was sketchy, maybe had import licenses for only some Rallys - they went belly up shortly after(tnx SaFiS for inside info)
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
You have an oldie, maybe one of the first 600 sold to the public. Mine was made in '77, but sold in '78 and listed as a '78 on Scooterhelp w/ *13268* serial number. The weird thing is they start at 222, not at 001 as you might expect. I guess Piaggio tested or just kept the first 221.
I hadn't heard that about numbering beginning at 222. I read somewhere that it started at 101 but either way, Yes I have an Oldie... I just hope it turns into a Goodie.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@oopsclunkthud avatar
UTC

Banned
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8968
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
@oopsclunkthud avatar
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8968
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
renewing your registration online is going to be fun, "Enter the last 5 digits of your VIN..."
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Hah!... I hadn't thought of that!
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Try VSX1T *789* , that'll give you eight.

So does anybody here have an OLDER P200?
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Well this morning was an adventure. I got Red Rover running for the first time... and I do mean RUNNING!

When the engine started, it immediately went to top speed. I don't know if it was WOT because it would not respond to the throttle at all but it sure sounded like it. I immediately shut it down... or at least I tried to. I turned off the ignition switch but the engine kept running (I'll have to look into that) so then I shut off the fuel tap, but the engine kept running (I'll have to look into that too). I thought about pulling the spark plug lead but I've touched spark plugs before and I don't want to do it again so I skipped that option. Finally I unscrewed the banjo at the carburetor and let it run out of gas. Overall, it was not a fun experience.

Now, I have no idea what to do next (except take care of the ignition switch and the fuel tap) so does anyone have any suggestions?

On the bright side, the engine started on the first kick!
UTC

Hooked
various, but less than I used to have
Joined: UTC
Posts: 175
Location: San Anselmo
 
Hooked
various, but less than I used to have
Joined: UTC
Posts: 175
Location: San Anselmo
UTC quote
that usually means air leak...
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5111
Location: Oceanside, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5111
Location: Oceanside, CA
UTC quote
Air leak, stuck slide, idle screw too far in, throttle cable too short.

Ever happens again, pull the choke and cut the fuel.
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
When first starting it up, I like to have the air box cover and filter removed so I can see all the carb action directly.

Also, you can tie a short nylon cord to the sparkplug cap for fast emergency shutoff while testing.

And I vote for MJRally cause #4 - cable too short on account of the outer cable end at the carb being stuck OUTSIDE of the adjuster at the airbox maybe?
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1243
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Aw Crap!

An air leak was the last thing I wanted to deal with. I've read enough on the Forum to know that an air leak is a real pain in the ass and I don't need that right now. If it's leaking on the clutch side or the fly side I know I can fix it by replacing the seals and since I thought I might rebuild the engine anyway, replacing the bearings and the seals will fix the problem. That was going to be a future project though... now something for right now.

On the other hand, it it's leaking someplace else I want to fix it now and deal with the bearings/seals later on. I've seen enough videos to know that pressure testing is an involved process even if you already have a pressure tester, which I don't, so I don't want to go that route. I'm wondering where other likely leaks might be and if there is some other way to find them.

By the way, I've rebuild the carb and the throttle cable is set properly so it is probably the dreaded Air Leak... damn!
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