@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4188
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4188
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Here's an idea - hook up your old switch and turn on the key. You should be able to push the button and see the light go off...
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Good idea! I should have thought of that one myself... damn!
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
'
The neutral light stays on through all 4 gears even when the brown wire is disconnected.
Well, I fixed it.

No, I don't know how. I was tinkering with the wires and pulled the neutral bulb out of the speedometer. There were a lot of sparks and a little bit of blood and now it is working fine.

I put it back together and all is good... and I'm not asking any questions.

Next step is the headlight. It used to work and now it doesn't. I guess I'll start tinkering with the wires again and hope for sparks.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
The neutral light wasn't working again yesterday, it stayed on through all 4 gears, but this morning it is working as it should... and again, I'm not going to ask why.

I did some checking and it looks like the Neutral indicatorand the Speedo lamp take a 3 watt bulb and the turn signal and high beam indicators take a 2 watt bulb. I have a bunch of 4 watt bulbs and I'm wondering if I can use them in place of the 2 and 3 watt bulbs. Any thoughts?

My other P200 (Spermy) uses LEDs and I may change Red Rover over to them but I want to get everything working on the stock setup before I do that.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8203
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Posts: 8203
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
working then not working = intermittent short of the brown wire
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
working then not working = intermittent short of the brown wire
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess now its a matter of chasing wires... damn!
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Yeah, that makes sense. I guess now its a matter of chasing wires... damn!
Before I go out to the (damned cold) garage to chase wires, I'm going to work on the oil pump, which I can do in my (much warmer) office.

I'm going to replace the spring and ball bearing but is there anything else I should do while I have it all apart.

Everytime I start the engine, I get a LOT of smoke. The attached pic doesn't really show it well, but I can't get my video to post.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1812
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1812
Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Everytime I start the engine, I get a LOT of smoke. The attached pic doesn't really show it well, but I can't get my video to post.
Sounds more like it's flooding.
How many kicks to start it cold?
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
This morning it was one kick. Usually it's two or three. Choke is full on.

Often, it is harder to start when it is warm and sometimes I can't start it at all. I have no idea why.
@hec_in_omaha avatar
UTC

Hooked
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: UTC
Posts: 394
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
 
Hooked
@hec_in_omaha avatar
1980 P125X US Spec
Joined: UTC
Posts: 394
Location: Beaver Lake, Nebraska USA
UTC quote
If it's harder to start warm you may have a fuel leak at the carb causing the atmosphere in the carb box to be rich. Take the lid off and have a look inside for evidence of fuel laying around. Usual suspect is the carburetor filter cover. Freak Moped has excellent videos explaining this issue and the easy fix.

Hec


?si=fmKa6llbaZ3S3L_k
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
No, no fuel leak. Everything is tight and the engine started on First Kick this morning. I'll check it later in the day to see what happens. I thought about a bad petcock but the one that I have now is new to me and it checked out before I installed it.

I'm still planning to replace the oil pump check valve when things warm up (Yes, I know we're warmer in Fresno than in Beaver Lake)
UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4472
Location: London UK
UTC quote
Poor hot starting and white smoke. How's the gear oil level? These are the first signs of a work main seal. Worth a check.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Gear oil is topped up and I replaced all the seals as part of the rebuild and I think I did them properly. Virtually no mileage on them. I'm hoping that a replacement oil pump check valve will solve the problem.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
If anyone is upgrading to a SIP Road 3.1 and has a Road 2,0 or a Road 2.5 that they want to get rid of, I'd be interested in buying it for Red Rover.
I know I asked this a couple of months ago but I'm still looking for a used Road 2.0 or 2.5 for Red Rover. I'm going to be in the LA area this week so if you've upgraded your Exhaust and want to get rid of your old one, please let me know.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7093
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7093
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
BajaRob was selling a Sito+

[Ventura, California] Sito Plus (Post 2656741)
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@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
I have been starting Red Rover every morning (one or two kicks) and running it for a minute or two just to keep it fresh. Yesterday it wouldn't start until close to a dozen kicks and then it ran very slugishly. When it stopped running, I found a large puddle of oil on the clutch side. I don't know if it was 2 stroke or transmission... I can't tell the difference. I cleaned up the oil and today I started the engine up again using starting fluid and during the brief time it ran, it spit out oil on the clutch side.

I'm thinking that the clutch side seal might have failed except that I just replaced it and the new one has less than 15 minutes usage. True, it could have failed due to faulty workmanship (not the first time) but I'm wondering if it could be something else. Does the location of the spill give a clue?
Oil splattered on tire and onto lift
Oil splattered on tire and onto lift
Most oil is directly below the exhaust but I don't think oil is coming from the pipe,
Most oil is directly below the exhaust but I don't think oil is coming from the pipe,
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4156
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4156
Location: Veria, Greece
UTC quote
That's a float needle issue. Engine flooded overnight…
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
That's a float needle issue. Engine flooded overnight…
Thanks SaFIS. I will get back to the smoke problem once I've solved the oil leakage problem. I'm hoping someone on the forum will be able to tell me if the oil on my rear wheel is a sign of a failed oil seal. Pics are above
@bajarob avatar
UTC

Addicted
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 561
Location: Ventura, CA
 
Addicted
@bajarob avatar
1961 VS5T, 1981 P200E, Rigid Frame Chopper, 2001 Harley FXDXT
Joined: UTC
Posts: 561
Location: Ventura, CA
UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
That's a float needle issue. Engine flooded overnight…
As SafiS said, looks like it's all coming out your exhaust pipe. The tip is juicy in the picture.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Oh. I didn't know the float needle affected the oil flow. I will replace the needle and the float before I start looking at the oil seal … much easier
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1812
Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
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Location: Los Angeles
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Oh. I didn't know the float needle affected the oil flow. I will replace the needle and the float before I start looking at the oil seal … much easier
It doesn't. That's muck the fuel leak took along before evaporating.

Are you turning off the fuel tap overnight?
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
[quote="

Are you turning off the fuel tap overnight?
[/quote]

Yes, I always turn off the fuel tap whenever I park however I'm not 100% certain that it completely shuts off. After I replace the float and needle I'm going to pull the gas tank and check the tap.
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
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Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
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UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
{

Yes, I always turn off the fuel tap whenever I park however I'm not 100% certain that it completely shuts off. After I replace the float and needle I'm going to pull the gas tank and check the tap.
You can test the tap by just loosening the banjo bolt at the carb.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
{

Yes, I always turn off the fuel tap whenever I park however I'm not 100% certain that it completely shuts off. After I replace the float and needle I'm going to pull the gas tank and check the tap.
Give it a sniff. Should tell you whether it's oil or fuel. Fuel will dissolve and pick up carbon on its way out of the engine.

I know you've been starting it but if not riding and making the float go bumpity bump, it might get sticky. I would just clean it and see if that helps. Carbs get grungy from sitting.

Before going through the trouble of pulling the tank, you could pull the hose off the carb and test whether the tap into a leaking.

Either way, a properly functioning float needle should stop fuel flow all by itself.
@roland87 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1138
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
 
Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1138
Location: Ukraine. Kyiv.
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
I have been starting Red Rover every morning (one or two kicks) and running it for a minute or two just to keep it fresh.
What goal are you pursuing with this daily starts? For 1-2 minutes engine even not heat up. Personally I when park my Vespas for winter(3-4 months) never starts them periodically. And winters here is much colder than in Fresno
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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Location: northern New York
UTC quote
My neighbor used to start his Harley up at 2am in the middle of the winter when he and his buddies were wasted. Then the CO alarms would go off. He is such a good guy, that I never complained.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4188
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4188
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
Was it this guy? Razz emoticon
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
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Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
Was it this guy? Razz emoticon
Lol, Retired army with US, First Cav, POW/MIA flags all over his garage. Definitely not one of those long haired, anti-American, dope smokin', Easy Rider types.

Actually the photo you posted is probably a dentist or proctologist on his weekend off.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4188
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4188
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
Actually the photo you posted is probably a dentist or proctologist on his weekend off.
That's Chong, from Cheech and Chong... Razz emoticon
@kowalski avatar
UTC

Hooked
2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 467
Location: MA
 
Hooked
@kowalski avatar
2005 Stellalossi 177 Fe
Joined: UTC
Posts: 467
Location: MA
UTC quote
qascooter wrote:
That's Chong, from Cheech and Chong... Razz emoticon
May be, but should have joint the size of an El Presidente in his mouth for positive id.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
roland87 wrote:
What goal are you pursuing with this daily starts?
It's much like why a dog licks his balls… I start it to see if I can. I like to start it up to see if there are any new problems… like puddles or oil on the floor… or electrical issues

I've replaced the float and needle and I blew out the oil channels around the oil pump, although I didn't replace the check valve itself. I'm going to try to get out to give it a test ride later on today to see if that resolved my oil leakage and smoke issues
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
I'm going to try to get out to give it a test ride later on today to see if that resolved my oil leakage and smoke issues
Maybe it did.

I took a two mile run this morning and while there was the usual (but smaller) cloud of smoke at startup, it dissipated pretty quickly and looked like any other two-stroke engine going down the road. So far, no new puddles of oil so fingers are crossed.

Next project is to stop the oil leak where the ring nut screws onto the oil tank. I'm thinking plumbers pipe tape, or maybe pipe dope but I don't know how they hold up against oil.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Has anyone installed the Fiamm Freeway Blaster horn in a P200? Does it fit under the horncast?
@oopsclunkthud avatar
UTC

Banned
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8923
Location: San Francisco
 
Banned
@oopsclunkthud avatar
3:5
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8923
Location: San Francisco
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Has anyone installed the Fiamm Freeway Blaster horn in a P200? Does it fit under the horncast?
oh, the wayback machine just kicked in.

In the early '80s the Vespa of America accessory catalog had two of these with chrome grills bolted to the side of the horncast.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
I'm going to replace the spring and ball bearing but is there anything else I should do while I have it all apart. Everytime I start the engine, I get a LOT of smoke.
Ok, I got a SIP Road 2.0 (thanks BajaRob) and installed it this week and it's giving me a nice little boost, I solved my Shifter Problem, my Neutral Light Problem and my Signal Light Problem so now it's time to get back to my Blowing Smoke Problem.

When I start the engine first thing in the morning, I blow a hell of a lot of blue smoke which tells me that oil is seeping into the cylinder for some reason. (My neighbors think I work for the Mosquito Abatement Department.) Suspecting the oil pump, I swapped the carb and carb box with pump, for a known-good setup from Spermy and now Red Rover is not smoking. I've started it several times a day for three days and I took it on a brief two mile run (it's still too damned cold for a longer ride) and so far so good. I need to give it some more time before I declare the problem identified but I'm hopeful. Assuming that I need to repair the oil pump, I have yet another problem.

Last week I removed the oil pump and blew out the oil channels but I did not replace the check valve or the O-ring on the oil pump shaft (Number 13 on the attached diagram). I can order a new check valve and install it but I am not able to find the O-ring without buying the entire pump and I don't want to spend $150 to get a 29¢ O-ring. I haven't actually pulled the pump from the body so I don't know if I really need to replace the O-ring but chances are it is worn. Besides, other than the check valve, there isn't anything else on the oil pump assembly to replace… is there? I'm wondering if I can find the appropriate O-ring at my local hardware store.

Is there anything else that I should look for on the carb/carb box/oil pump assembly?

Alternatively, does any one have an old P200 oil pump that they want to sell?

I'd welcome any suggestions.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
I was wondering about this myself.

Maybe they are included in a carb rebuild kit?

I don't know if a viton o-ring is required or if a hardware store ring is fine.

You could also measure the id/od with calipers and order from McMaster-Carr.
OP
@fatbear5 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
 
Molto Verboso
@fatbear5 avatar
1977 P200, 1980 P200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1223
Location: Fresno, CA
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
Is there anything else that I should look for on the carb/carb box/oil pump assembly?

Alternatively, does any one have an old P200 oil pump that they want to sell?

I haven't been able to find a used carb box/oil pump to buy so I'm going to see if I can find an appropriate O-ring locally. Then I'll replace it and the check valve

Is there ANYTHING else in the carb box that could be causing Red Rover to be blowing out clouds of smoke?
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
orwell84 wrote:
I was wondering about this myself.

Maybe they are included in a carb rebuild kit?

I don't know if a viton o-ring is required or if a hardware store ring is fine.

You could also measure the id/od with calipers and order from McMaster-Carr.
The O ring store usually has waaaaay more options than mcmaster...and usually for less $$ too.
UTC

parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
 
parallelogramerist
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5074
UTC quote
Fatbear5 wrote:
I haven't been able to find a used carb box/oil pump to buy so I'm going to see if I can find an appropriate O-ring locally. Then I'll replace it and the check valve

Is there ANYTHING else in the carb box that could be causing Red Rover to be blowing out clouds of smoke?
Something interesting about the check valve...my low mile 2005 PX150 didn't come with a check ball or spring...neither did my other 2005 PX150 that had even lower miles.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
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Posts: 2914
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
The O ring store usually has waaaaay more options than mcmaster...and usually for less $$ too.
Thanks for the tip!
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