Modern Vespa

I've run across several no-start scooters sitting for years and that I likely could purchase for a couple hundred or less. The problem is the California registration tags are all years old and when I called the DMV the back fees and fines are typically around $1000, which is how much these nearly 15-20 y/o no-start scooters are worth. This effectively totals them. I understand the DMV rule is buyer beware. My question is has anyone been successful in talking the DMV person to reduce the back fees/fines or are they physically unable to even if they wanted. My 18 y/o daughter just got her M1 license and might have a chance at mercy.

On a side note it seems common here in the SF Bay Area to own scooters with severely expired tags. Don't the owners get ticketed while driving or parked at shops? I'd imagine once towed the owner is absolutely toasted.

DMV unfortunately can not reduce the fees associated with the bike unless the previous owner puts it in non OP.Same thing happened to me owner says the bike has no fees but turned out it was about $1000 so luckily with some threats and heated exchanges he took the bike back lessoned learned.
picture of the scoot

nope

I don't think we have defined a definite way yet.

I just paid $650 or so in back fees for my latest bike, but I knew and the price was adjusted accordingly.

You can certainly try Vermont. Tennessee will likely title it, so you could go the Saints Cycle Works route, get a clean TN title, and try to "reimport" it to CA, but I'm not sure the fees would disappear. I've considered trying this but you really need to be willing to gamble the $350 for the title service from Saints - it may not work. But if it does, you now know the secret.... And might share it with us???

The Saints route works well for bikes with no paperwork that have fallen out of DMV system. Instead of dealing with CHP inspection and trying to make a paper trail back to the last owner, you get a hassle free registration process except you will need a vin inspection for your "out of state" bike. And you'll need a speedo with enough miles on it if it's too low...

the short answer is no. the longer more vague answer is maybe

I suppose if you had a sympathetic employee that you had a good relationship with and a paper trail that the bike had not been moved or operated on highway then mayyyybeee? but doubtful.

roll the dice with an out of state reg or let it fall off system in ca is kind of the best bet, I guess?

Do they ever drop out of the system? Is there a limit to how much back fees accumulate?

According to the California DMV rep I spoke with on the phone, the limit is capped to 3 years of back fees/fines. This is likely why it always seems to hover around the $1000 mark for all these long forgotten souls. The license plate tags I posted above is from 2006, so I assume 17 years isn't long enough.

Wow, the seller must have been really bummed. I wonder if he tried to hide the nasty surprise for the next buyer too. I sometimes wonder if dishonest sellers like this sell just the occasional bike for play money or a lot to create a real business.

In AZ, the fees are capped at around $100, but that only applies to the person who owned the vehicle to begin with if they decided to reregister it. If they sell it with an expired registration, those fees disappear, and the new owner does not have to pay them. Many years ago I bought a car that was titled to the original owner in CA, and had not been registered for more than 20 years. His son had towed it to AZ behind a motor home, then their plans changed, and they decided to sell it. I bought it, got it running, took it to AZ MVD, had a level 1 inspection (VIN check) done, and was able to title and register it in my name in AZ with no fees from CA.

I don't know about other states (other than CA and AZ) as laws vary widely. But if an AZ resident bought those scooters, they could bring them to AZ, have the VIN verified, and have them titled and registered in AZ with no CA fees. However, you would have to be an AZ resident to do that.

CA is notorious for ripping people off like that. Back fees should not apply to the buyer. CA is probably the only state in the country that does it that way.

My recollection as a dealer was they fell off after 7 years however someone in this thread has disputed that and now I'm unsure.

No kind hearted dmv employee is going to reduce the back fees, I assure you of that. That would be a dmv employee committing fraud.

The prospect of registering in AZ, NV or Or is interesting however I'm unsure that would wipe out the Ca history if ever attempted to title in Ca again.

I recall distinctly in my prior 25 years doing very high volume in the auto auction business certain automobiles being sold wholesale at auction with the announcement "out of state buyers only" so the seller wouldn't be required to have the back fees deducted from their sale proceeds.

If there is a state friends and family live in that do not require the scooter present for registration purposes that would be an option also.

Best of luck.

SDG

It used to be 7 years, and now it's 10 but with the caveat that if anything is pinged on that vin number the clock starts again.

so basically, graveyard bikes are gonna be graveyard bikes. buyer beware and offer accordingly.

the rules vary state to state and I'm not particularly experienced with them, some may wash the fees and some may not, so best to ask if buying from cali if you're gonna get dinged.

knowing California, they'll keep it on the books forever so even if you tried to wash it by going out of state and back they'd get you on the b-side.

that being said, anybody interested in a low miles GTS? been sitting a bit...

probably been pinged on the DMV web site

how do you think I found out about the back fees and how long it takes?

ha!

now wait 10 years and hope I don't snag the VIN number next time I'm up there and ping it on year nine

OP, if the scooter with back fees owed to DMV in CA has a clear title in the owners name "in hand", I see no reason many states it could be sold and re-titled in the new state? Some states if a liens involved the owner doesn't "hold the title" as in hand. That could be a kink on a back fees vehicle as the or lein holders involved.
I had no idea that a state could place fees on the vehicle-it's a personal fee attached to a human anywhere I've been.
I wonder how that affects situations beyond the title holders control, of which there are myriad such situations. One e.g., my closest neighbor, a KY state cop, has a son who bought a late model Ford Focus as his school car. It's had a mfg. parts issue that made it undrivable for over a year. I see it sitting a lot! Meanwhile in your state of CA if would accumulate fees while un-useable.
Does CA salvage title these high back fees vehicles ? If so, that makes no sense to part out a perfectly good vehicle over fees owed. This doesn't come together for me at all.
Seems this would greatly affect the use of a mechanics lien in CA. Every vehicle I rebuilt from salvage titles it was about the brands on the title I presented, mattered not if Al Capone had owned it in bank robberies or drug deals cars held in pound by cops wherever.

I have registered several old scooters and bikes in California without paying those fees. As others have said, if it's in the system you will get hit for fees. So, go to the DMV website, click Online Services, then Vehicle Registration, then Calculate My Fees. Put in the VIN and the plate numbers, and your county and city. If it says it's not found, you win, no fees but you do have to get it to the DMV for a VIN inspection but meanwhile you go to the DMV with your documents and pay the transfer fees, get things started and ask for a 1 day permit so you can ride to the DMV at a day you choose, and you can fill in the date later. In my experience it takes at least 7 years to disappear, maybe even 10. (The bike with the 2006 tags should be long gone.)

If it's on non-op there's no problem at all.

If it does show penalties you can ask that the back fees and penalties get waived. You fill out Form 256, Statement of Facts. Under C you check Title only if there is no title, or Transfer Only if you do have a title. Under Section G You write that the prior owner said it's been off the road for at least 10 years, there are no liens or claims, no license plate and maybe no title.

You also ask for a waiver under Sections VC4604 and VC5051 because you intend to restore and preserve this historic, special interest vehicle because you are a collector and amateur restorer.

When you buy the vehicle get a bill of sale and have the seller say there is no title, that it was lost if that's true. It would help if they also wrote that it had been off the road as long as you wrote in the Statement of Facts.

The only way things can fall apart is if someone put it on non-op and the seller isn't that person. If it's on non-op the DMV wants a bill of sale from the non-op owner.

If the clerk at the DMV says, "No Deal" about the waiver ask that the decision gets reviewed by the supervisor. If the supervisor says "Nope!" then ask them to send it to Sacramento for review, but pay all the regular transfer fees. I've had the DMV take 6 months to review the case, and then write asking me what I want. I wrote back and repeated what I wrote, and got a letter saying take this to a DMV, pay $18 and get it done. So I did.