Modern Vespa

Hi , long time vintage guy here. (GL150 and GS160, currently).

I am going to get a used 'modern' Vespa for, well, just to ride around with friends.

I have found two nice used bikes:

2006 GT200, well kept, 3200 miles.
2013 GTS300ie, 350 miles!

Price for each seems fair. Neither has been down. I have read a few posts on the comparison, and I think I know which way to go. I look at both this week.
Interested in any points of view. Any issue with the low miles, (apparent) long period of sitting around?

Jeff

You're likely looking at replacing all fluid (hub oil, engine oil, brake fluid, coolant on the GTS), and tires, on both, so that's kind of a moot point.

Unless you like taking carburetors apart and putting them back together yourself, or there is a very dramatic price difference, GTS seems the no brainer.

Thumbs up, except I am a lurker.

I can do carb work, no problem. Yes on the fluids for both. I would guess each has been sitting for 5 years. Price difference exists, but is not a factor in my decision. My concerns are more about reliability and performance, known model issues.

Thanks

I agree with you. I would get the gts 300

I think parts supply is easier on the 300, there are some things getting scarce on the GT. Plus - the power.

I'd go for the GT200. I own one, bought it back in 2016 with 1800 miles on it (2006 model) in pretty much brand new condition. I absolutely love it. It now has just over 14,000 miles on it, and the only problems I have had with it, right after buying it, and probably caused by it sitting for so long, were a failed vacuum petcock and a leaking water pump. Other than those, I have not had a single issue with it. But if I need to, I can work on a carbureted bike. Been doing it for decades. They are several times simpler than computerized EFI, and don't have any failure prone electronics. People have put over 70,000 miles on the original engine. When something goes wrong with an EFI bike, and it will, you pretty much have to take it to a dealer, and it will be very expensive. Most people don't realize just how complex EFI is. It's not just replacing a carburetor with an electronic throttle body. There is a high pressure electric fuel pump, at least one ECU (computer) at least 7 sensors that send information to the computer, and connections from the computer to the throttle body. In all newer EFI bikes, the ignition is also controlled by the EFI. EFI has become an electronic vehicle management system, controlling everything.

Unless it already has problems, I wouldn't worry about parts for a GT200. There is a LOT less to go wrong with a GT200 than a GTS300. And at 10 years old, it won't be long till parts start becoming hard to find for the GTS300, now that the old GTS300 has been replaced by the HPE. I did the 12,000 mile service on my GT200, and all the parts were available from Scooterwest. There are also a number of aftermarket parts available for it.

SDJohn knows.
Parts supply tightening up on 200s, there was a thread on this recently too.

Not sure how fast and capable your classic Vespas are but the
GTS 300 means not having to ask permission to merge,
easier to find clean air between traffic packs, can split to the front at red lights and take off quicker than normal traffic,
double up, hills and even short sections of fast moving CA freeways are no problem.

That said, still love the performance and handling of my 2015 Sprint 150 (when 1 up) but I have to rely on momentum, flow, WOT and a bit of tailgating to keep up and flow with fast traffic

The type of roads that one expects to scoot on would be the biggest factor for me. Highways with speed limits over 55 would have me getting the 300. A 200 cc would provide better fuel mileage and easier routine maintenance. Having to run with wot a majority of the time puts a significant stain on an engine. your intended type of use should direct you to the best decision for YOU. I like my 250cc very much, it provides me with smile after smile every ride, may you enjoy yours as much.

Thanks Frank. This and the prior post have me thinking, again. The vintage bikes are great for cruising around town, short runs on easy roads. But WFO to keep up on some of the faster rides (not freeway). I wanted something easier and faster. So, maybe the 200 won't be that big of an improvement.

Shoot, I should just get both.

you should get both!



As was said, consider your use case. I use my GTS for highway duty and it does it well. I've never ridden a 200 before but I hear they do all right. I like the carburetor as well on a scoot for simplicity, but I treat my GTS like a car and less like a hobby bike, I even paid for the 12k service. Normally I do all my own stuff. Now after I finish my ET4 project, that's probably going to change. The service on moderns isn't that bad. I can see easily where I might do everything but the valve service because it's a PIA. I might get frisky and try that even. Doing it in the bike is more hassle than like what I just did on the bench though.

get the GTS, it's a no brainer.

you already have two lovely bikes to tinker with, why add a third?

there's a guy who would know ^

all of this is flawed pronouncement and wild theorizing... but this is neither the time nor the place to argue the merits of carb v efi.

but I would 100% be worried about parts for a GT200. lots of specialized pieces have already gone away, and some of the engine components are vanishing as well.

don't get me wrong, the LEADER motor is a robust piece, but the water cooled version of it was short lived and the QUASAR motor is all around more beefy. it's also enjoyed a much longer run along with the GTS series so parts are plentiful and available.

Wait wait, hold up, back up.

The Vespa GT200 is a 198cc, the GTS300 is a 278cc, so yes, it's bigger, but you're getting fuel injection over carburetor, and the weight difference is only about 40-50 lbs because the GT is kind of a pig for it's displacement (relative to the smaller LEADER engine bikes).

I've never owned a GT200 so hopefully someone else can speak from experience, but I know when I left my LX150cc carbureted LEADER motor for the injected GTS250ie, my mileage increased, not decreased.

Well, I hope to see both these in the next three days. Wish me luck!

Good luck, keep us posted, those of us who already have too many in the garage (and inside the house) are counting on you to let us get our bike buying fix by living vicariously through your purchase lol

So I looked up the precise specs:

2006 GT200 wt 308 pounds, HP = 21; t=17.5@6500 RPM

.2013 GTS300ie wt 348.3 lbs; HP=22; t=22.3@5000 RPM

I might have assumed the 300, with fuel injection would have a bigger performance edge

The torque matters
My 1963 GL150 is ~240 lbs, and a massive 8 HP. If I'm lucky. But it is sexy

1/3 more torque at lower rpm is going to feel better. I'd still like to try a gt200 just to see how it feels

I think the numbers downplay it a little.

off the line and top end I think the 250 stomps it, in the middle they're about even. the 300 absolutely crushes it bottom end and mid range and eeks it out at the top.

the instantaneous throttle response of the EFI vs the carb is noticeably different.

the GT is a fine machine, it's just that the GTS is clearly a cut above.

To emphasize this, I recently read about a GT owner who had to look halfway around the world for parts needed. I think it was said to be one of the last of that part in existence (without resorting to donor bikes). I know that they said that not getting the part would've meant having to replace the GT200.

My GT200 tops out at around 72 mph GPS on a flat level road with no wind. I don't believe a GTS is much faster. Vespa kept increasing the displacement (first to 250cc, then to 280cc, which is what a 300 really is) not so much to make it faster or more powerful, but to keep from losing speed and power as they had to make more and more changes to keep up with Euro regulations.

As for parts, there are a lot of people still riding older ET2, ET4, and carbureted LX Vespas. I'm sure there are some parts for the older 300s that are also no longer available. Pretty much all newer vehicles are designed to be disposable. I wouldn't pay a whole lot for either one. I got my GT200 with 1800 miles on it for $2200 back in 2016. Just the taxes, fees and markups on a new GTS300 come to more than twice that. I'm going to keep riding it for as long as I can keep it going.

EFI does not give you any more performance. Proper tuning is where performance comes from. Both carburetors and EFI tuned for emissions are going to have very poor performance. Carburetors can be rejetted. Are there electronic tuners available for the EFI Vespas, like there are for most EFI bikes?

That '63 is a real beauty. It's so nice I'd almost be afraid to ride it

My GTS HPE is limited by the ECU (by monitoring the speed from the rear tone wheel) to 80mph Speedo / 75mph GPS (130kph/120kph)

but it'll get to that speed quicker than the old GTS/GT

top speed does not tell the whole story.

ability to climb hills at the posted speed limit or above is super important in my area. it's the prime reason I am putting the 190 kit on my ET4. I test rode an LX up a typical San Diego hill. Yeah. 40 MPH. Sure it will do 60 on a flat but who gives a crap when I'm getting passed like crazy as soon as I hit a hill? That's where HP numbers don't tell the story. The added torque at lower RPM matters in my neck of the woods.

Same reason why my 74 primavera went immediately from a 2 port 125 to a DR 135 with a short 4th gear - you have to be able to climb hills comfortably in order to have a good riding experience around here.

The ET/LX models were made for quite a while, so parts are going to be more plentiful. If I wanted more power, I would go the same route as sdjohn as I owned both a LX and the GT. The small frame just fits me better. When it comes to FI, no comparison. Given the choice, I would take FI over carbs any day. But older carbed scoots do have their place.

with grandad

Yeah, maybe so. But none of my 2T or 4T scoots are used as commuters - just for fun. And enjoy working on them.

fair point

I am a grandad. And all of my bikes, both scooters and motorcycles (and mopeds) are used strictly for recreational purposes. I have never used a bike for transportation. I use a car for transportation. And I enjoy working on them as much as riding them. Which means I need something that can be worked on. But other than the vacuum petcock and water pump, my GT200 has not required any work other than routine maintenance. Even my Genuine Stella has proven amazingly reliable. In 14,000+ miles, I've had one stator failure.

Where I live, using a bike of any kind for actual transportation is not really viable. For half the year it is over 100 degrees F, and in many places where you need to go, it is, at least for me, simply unsafe to ride a bike. You need the protection of a car. When riding for recreation, you can avoid the really dangerous places where you are likely to get crushed by a car.

I've owned both.

The 200 is just as fast as the 300, eventually. The carb can be rebuilt pretty easily from a kit and will give reliable starts and a smooth idle. For an errand running bike, or something nice to look at and fun to gad about on, it's comfortable and reliable.

That being said, I'd get the 300. Fuel injection killed carburetors for a reason. Mid-range power, the kind of power you use in cut and thrust traffic, is noticeably better. And, as has been said, the supply chain is years younger, and the accessory and aftermarket choices are better.

Good luck. Or buy both...

I have a 2007 GT200 and while I keep looking for excuses to buy a new(ish) shiny toy (newer GTS300) I have trouble justifying it. Especially with a net difference of 3,4, or $5,000.

I do fear parts scarcity as it gets older.

Also the fact it's older means I don't care that much about damage to the body.

Did you check out the bikes in person yet? Are they still up for sale?

Yes, I looked at and rode both. I bought the GT200 (yesterday!) for a combination of reasons. Primarily, it is lighter, was in much nicer condition, seemed to ride and handle better. The difference in power was there but probably won't matter for my use. And for the FI bit, I am not afraid of carburetors!

It was odd that the 350 mile GTS300 was cosmetically poorer. No scuffs or dings, but the metal was pitted in several places. It didn't really handle up to my expectations. Ran ok.

The GT200 was beautifully maintained. Ran great, handled great. A couple nice extras.

Stay tuned for a better report after I ride the GT200 a bit, get new tires.

Thanks to all the discussion in this group. Much appreciated.

It sounds like you are pretty happy with the choice of bikes. Little to no freeway use is where the 2006 should shine for creating smile after smile for you. I myself am surrounded by freeways and have long distances to travel for major stores that I am comfortable doing with my 2007 gts250, more then that. I feel that even the gts 300 models are a bit enemic. May you enjoy your bike as much as I.

Congrats!

Finding a GT200 in excellent condition is a real find.

I have three and truly enjoy riding them.

They are smooth with enough power to go almost anywhere.

Mine all have lots of miles on them and get ridden often.

Riding keeps fuel running through the carburetor, so I have had only a couple of issues with those in many years.

But some parts are getting hard to find.

The wear items luckily remain readily available.

Have fun on yours.

You are going to love it.

Bill

interesting. the GTS only weighs about 20lbs more and with the longer wheel base and better shocks the handling is generally considered to be a little sharper. maybe the tires were low.

no arguing condition, though.

I'm sure you're going to love the right. it'll be night and day difference between that and the vintage bikes.

EFI killed carburetors for one reason. The EPA. Honda still sells 2 brand new carbureted bikes in the U.S., the Navi 110, and the XR150L. Many Chinese and Taiwanese scooters are still carbureted.

My 2006 GT200 was in showroom condition when I bought it in 2016. Literally. I went to the local Vespa dealer for an oil filter, and they had a few brand new GTS300s on the floor. One of them was a flat black 300 Super, and it was just covered in scratches. That tends to happen to flat or matte paint, and the darker the color the more noticeable it is. It has been living room kept and taken excellent care of. At just over 14,000 miles, it still looks showroom, except for a few minor chips under the bottom from gravel being thrown up by the front wheel. Unless you crawl under it, it still looks new.

Other than the petcock and water pump, I have not had a single issue with it. I used to ride it on the freeway, right lane at full throttle, but I have quit doing that. I can get anywhere in my state without going on a freeway. It might take a little longer, and involve more miles, but since all my riding is recreational, that just means more fun.

Mine has set for a few weeks at the time during the summer when it is 110 degrees F outside, I just drained the carburetor. The float bowl drain screw can be reached from underneath the left cowl. If you want to drain all the gas out of the tank, that is also easy. Pull the fuel line off the carburetor, stick it in a container, then pull the vacuum line off that goes to the petcock, and connect a hand operated vacuum pump to it. You can get one at Harbor Freight for under $20. The petcock is at the lowest part of the tank, so you can get all the gas out that way.

Robot has an informative video comparing the GT 200 to newer versions. It's both interesting and at times surprising.

Not the only reason, but that's a conversation that's been many times over already.

This is the only GT200 video I could find. The only thing he said that concerned me was about the CDI. That's an electronic part, and I don't trust any electronic parts. And aftermarket replacements are available. Maybe I'll go ahead and replace it. My fuel system is perfect, and if anything does go wrong I know how to fix it. He said something about the water pump, but thought they had fixed that by '05-'06. Mines an '06. I've already replaced the water pump.