Modern Vespa

Living in AZ now I find there are different rules of the road than I am used to. So stop signs are meaningless, people may slow down a bit. Stop lights if they have just changed, ok to blow the red light. Cross walks few stop. And right turn on red, no one stops, most just blow through it. Speed limit just a suggestion, everyone speeds. Now these things happen in other places but at least to me seems more common in AZ

So with these new rules of the road, when I am on my Vespa I am rethinking how I ride. Many of the roads even in residential areas, are 2-3 lanes each way with a speed limit of 45. When I have been riding them I usually have stayed in the right lane to allow those who wish to speed the left lane. The issue is those on the right, wanting to make a right turn either from side streets or main streets often just blow through the stop sign or red light to make their right turn, ignoring me completely and making it a bit dangerous for my ride as I need to slow down very quickly. So I have been thinking I should ride in the inside lane so I avoid those right tuners. I still have the left turners who also ignore me but there are fewer of those. I also run the risk of pissing of those that want to speed in the inner lane but I do ride fairly quickly. So what do people think? Do you have a preference for which lane you ride in?

If I see someone behind me signaling to turn right and there's no one in front stopped at the red light, I may move over to the left lane if there's little traffic there. Object is to avoid pissing someone off if it's not necessary.

it depends a lot for me.

Knowing the road or seeing far enough ahead can allow good choices for lanes. But also I find it's very useful is to move left and right within my lane for two reasons: can allow seeing around the car in front to read the traffic and also to better allow evasive actions when those in front do stupid things - be paranoid.

So I don't find there is a simple answer - adapting constantly to the scenario is the right way of thinking.

I guess that is what I do but the right turners who just blow thru the red light or stop sign and pull out in front of me seems to be one of the biggest risks. I used to ride with friend who had a big Harley and the two of us riding seemed to make a big enough statement that people noticed us more, but he sold his harley so now by myself on my Vespa people seem to ignore me more

Always assume all cars around you are stupid. Ain't perfect but it's really all you've got.

Another thing I do is when at the front at a red light I watch that the left & right actually are stopping/stopped. Don't trust that just 'cause the light turns green for you that they others have stopped - don't jsut stare straight ahead or at the lights themselves.

totally agree lights mean nothing as people are happy to blow them all the time

I'm 63 and have lived in AZ all my life. Southeast Phoenix valley. AZ does have traffic rules, at least in the book, but they are not enforced. You could fly right by a cop at 20 mph over the speed limit, and there is a good chance he/she wouldn't stop you. My area has a lot of red light cameras. On a scooter I stay in the right lane unless I need to be in the left lane to make a turn. But there will always be idiots in cars/trucks turning or pulling out or changing lanes right in front of you. You have to be VERY aware of everything that's going on around you. I wear a fluorescent orange vest and a white helmet. Ride like everybody in a four wheeled vehicle is out to get you. It doesn't matter whether they really are or not, the result is the same. If you see a vehicle ahead of you that looks like they are going to turn in front of you from a side street or parking lot, always assume that they will, slow down and be ready. When slowing down, flash your brake light several times. Look for a way out if you see somebody coming up behind you too fast. They are probably looking at their dumbphone. NEVER expect ANYBODY to follow the rules. That even includes bikes. Especially crotch rockets. Pretty much every rider I see on a crotch rocket is breaking every rule in the book.

I have ridden in 39 states so far, and I have seen reckless driving in all of them, but AZ does seem to be one of the worst. To me anyway.

How ironic to hear you say that. I came to the U.S. a graduate student and for most of my life growing up I always thought that the big difference between the U.S. and many other parts of the world was, the desire to live by a set of rules and laws.
Over the last 30 years I have noticed a steady decline in that mindset and your riding in AZ is one of many reflections that I am saddened by.
As someone who rides in NYC, what I have noticed is there doesn't seem to be a desire to use ones turn signals when making turns, and as you point out signs are just there not to be necessarily followed.
Now coming to which lane to ride on that would be safer, I doubt you could stick to a formula. I would say riding in the middle lane gives you more options and a wider berth to escape from danger. When I ride on the BQE I tend to be on the right lane but will move to the extreme left or middle lane when I see exit/merge lanes appearing as so many folks don't bother to stick to the rules and wiill cut in or out when they aren't supposed to. On city streets, I avoid being on either extreme lanes unless I am going to be making a turn, I find that riding in the middle lane on sixth ave or Amsterdam Ave in Manhattan for example, gives me the best options, but then if I am in a hurry then I will be zig-zagging trying to get past the traffic and hopefully saving 2-3 minutes every 3-5 traffic lights, that adds up when you are going from Brooklyn all the way up to the Upper West Side in Manhattan etc, not that is it is far, it just makes for sometimes nasty aggressive driving to stay sane.
Stay alert & nimble, thats your best chance at being safe in my view.

Interesting subject. It all depends on circumstances in my opinion but there are several scenarios that can be discussed.

Intersections are where most of the accidents happen, if you are in a multi lane residential with relatively high speeds there are lots of opportunities for the cage drivers going the opposite direction to turn in front of you.

Bikes of any type are invisible! Bicycle, scooter, motorcycle all the same. I will try to be in the left most lane on the very left side of the lane so I can see what is in front of the traffic in front of me and so that the person waiting for the gap to make a left turn in front of me has a chance to see me as well despite me being invisible...

I always try to stop at a light in a lane position where I can get between two cages even though filtering is illegal where I am now. Basically I get in the spot where I could move forward and filter if it gets stupid in a hurry behind me.

I prefer to be aggressive. Find the hole and get through it. I am constantly changing lanes and lane position to allow myself the most opportunities to escape. I absolutely love the comment about not being in the way for someone behind to make a right turn and I do this all the time. I guess I am trying to blend being aggressive with also being polite. Or at least blending aggressive with being competent...aggressive not idiotic.

I want to try to be noticed, attract attention without getting people raging in anger. I totally agree with SteelBytes that it is constantly changing and adapting to that change is key. Being somewhat aggressive is helpful IMHO.

How do you know you are in the correct position in the correct lane? Move around a bit and see how it feels is what I do.

If there are two lanes in either direction, I ride in the outside lane. I do this to avoid idiots blowing the stop sign and turning into traffic without properly looking. The problem with this is speeding traffic that will pass you on the inside and cut you off to teach you a lesson! But. It's better than slamming into the side of a car in the inside lane.

Another issue with riding in the outside lane is oncoming traffic that may turn across your path. You have little time to react. So move in the lane, slow down, flash you headlights or sound your horn if you ever suspect an oncoming vehicle is going to turn across your path.

I flash my high beams and sound my horn often. Being involved in an accident is no fun.

I ride in the left lane visable in the mirror to the car in front of me. Leave plenty of room between you and the cars around you, got to have an escape route. If you ride in the right lane it is more likely someone turning left will not see you most accidents are from someone turning left. And I always slow a little when approching an intersection. Remember you're on a Vespa you're not in a hurry.

This is exactly why I am changing lanes and lane position frequently. I am going to aggressively get out of the way of give myself the widest opportunity to make it through the hole.

If I am riding in the left lane to be in the safe spot for approaching intersections I will get into the right lane for faster moving traffic from behind. This is all part of my aggressive but polite approach.

I don't use my light or horn much but that is certainly another good way to attract attention to yourself so you are seen/noticed in the right situation.

And then there is using cars as shields, positioning your self just behind the rear bumper of the car in the left lane as you approach the intersection. You ride in the left position of the right lane. That lead car should block from left front and you still have room to move to the left if you are slightly behind when there is danger from the right.

"Filtering" between lanes is now legal in AZ, ONLY when traffic is stopped for a red light. I won't do it. There have already been a few road rage incidents caused by riders doing this. Four wheeled vehicle operators simply cannot stand to be passed by anyone while they are not moving. 20+ years ago, back when I used to ride a bicycle in the bike lanes, and would ride past long lines of stopped four wheeled traffic, idiots would pull their vehicle into the bike lane ahead of me to block me. I've had all kinds of things thrown at me, I've had idiots stick things out the window of their vehicle and try to hit me. And they are going to do the same thing to riders trying to ride past them between two lanes of stopped traffic. When I come up behind the last vehicle ahead of me stopped at a red light, I will be in the right lane, but I will move to the far left of the lane, so if I see somebody coming up fast behind me, I can quickly pull between the two vehicles ahead of me.

Being hit from behind is the biggest danger where I live. I have been rear ended three times in cars while driving the speed limit in the right lane. Had I been on a bike I probably wouldn't be here. Two of those times were at night. You see a lot of vehicles around here with either front end damage or rear end damage. They either hit somebody from behind or got hit from behind. It happens so often it is not considered a big deal. On I-10 and the Loop 101 around Phoenix, traffic is usually 20-25 mph over the speed limit, bumper to bumper, with maybe 10 feet between them. Multiple car pileups are common. It's just like NASCAR used to be. I no longer ride any bike on urban freeways, and I gave up riding my scooter on any freeway period. If the vehicle ahead of you slows down for some reason, you are going to get crushed between it and the vehicle behind you.

I had a really nasty case of this a couple of years ago in the outer suburbs or Melbourne ...

While the light was red I filtered between two lanes of cars while flipping the throttle a little to create noise (iirc it was 3 or 4 lanes in each dir and a 70kph zone). As my front wheel reached level with the bumpers of the front row of cars the lights turned green. I naturally took of hard as always and drifted in to the lane on my left as I got clear enough. The 4wd which had been on my left (I was next to the driver) took off a moment after me. He was frustrated that I entered his lane. Since he had taken off quicker than the other cars he was able to change lanes and then he came up level beside me - no other cars near us. He moved straight side ways into my lane deliberately pushing me across to the edge of mine. He then moved back out and turned off the road about 100m further on. I wish I had an insta360 to capture that - would have taken it straight to the police.

Last edited by SteelBytes on Mon, 20 Mar 2023 22:53:14 +0000; edited 2 times

When I saw that lane filtering was made legal in AZ it did worry me. Both my kids live on CA so I am very used to lane filtering there, but in AZ I am concerned. Already I have seen many of the crotch rockets filtering the way they want to, not following the law and I am concerned that this will lead to accidents. I am not ready to do it. I think from all that I have heard there is no great solution to the best lane to ride in. I have been just moving around depending on the road I am on, and always being super vigilant. Be safe out there.

I will flash my high beam when coming to an intersection with nobody around or behind me. My little 'beep beep' isn't loud enough to interrupt someone's phone call.

I tend to avoid the right lane unless I'm ready to turn or there's an open spot at a light. Since I'm likely the only person at the light not looking at a phone, it's usually easy to get a jump on the person to my left in case I need to change lanes quickly because of someone turning out in front of me.

I've started to get used to the lane filtering. I think I'll get a lot more practice when it's 110° out and I just want to get home. Even the bike lanes look inviting when it's 110°. Damn those cool and inviting 90° mornings for tricking me into riding!

Many Arizona drivers have forgotten or never knew the purpose of blinkers. They seem to randomly change lanes and turn without any indication. Blindly relying on others to be psychic seems to be the norm.

I prefer to ride in the center lane when available. Otherwise, I can be found in the left lane, attempting to avoid those who don't look before they pull out into traffic. I will filter when riding alone, and drivers haven't given me any trouble because of it.

Just spitballing here, but perhaps the extreme climate of AZ causes more rapid evaporation of blinker fluid with resultant failure?

I think we are becoming Italian. They would never give away their
next move with a silly turn signal. The situation over there is you
anticipate and know they will be like this. They also seem to be able
to dodge situations a USA driver would just plow in to you.

So using turn signals seems to be a lost art. The fact that you legally
are suppose to use them, I chock it up to just a bunch of shitty
drivers - even if they think the are good.

Further, the lane changing high speed Mario Kart drivers are just lost
causes. I understand that you can not by an Audi without having
excelled at the Mario Kart video game.

Hypocrite, I loved driving in Italia, zoom-zoom.

Bob Copeland
Previously "Roberto De Napoli Della Campaignia"


Ciao - My fellow Neapolitans - Salute

Excellent observation! Proper blinker fluid maintenance is crucial when you live in an oven.

On one hand it is comforting to hear that bad driving is everywhere, not just where I live.

On the other hand, it is scary and sad that road manners and driving habit--seemingly everywhere--have deteriorated so much.

Wonder how much of that has to do w all the relocating people have done the past 20 yrs, creating more anonymity in places. You're much less likely to drive like an idiot when you've lived somewhere for years and are recognized (or at least your vehicle is) by many locals.

As for the original question, I prefer the right hand lane when there aren't a lot of driveways. On commercial streets I tend to avoid that lane. In general, I try to find gaps in the traffic, regardless of which lane they may be.

I could be wrong but having driven in many places in the US and Europe I do find the drivers in AZ to be some of the most aggressive. They routinely run red lights and stop signs. Never use turn signals, tail gate, text while driving, etc. Also are so willing to flip someone off for anything. That concerns me about lane splitting here as I am not sure how the drivers will take someone getting in front of them.

I am sure driving has deteriorated in many places though in the last few years

Can confirm. My cage is an S badged Audi, and I dominate Mario Kart.

We must not forget that BMW is the brand with most faulty turn signals.

Maybe more scooter riders need to adopt open carry. This is Arizona, it shouldn't be too much of a shock to see a GTS rider decked out like the Terminator.

Either that, or the maybe the Sunriders can design some tough looking club gear to make us aggressive looking enough to not have to use our embarrassing little horn

Like this classic?

I replaced my horn with an aftermarket loud horn, it often surprises people the noise coming out of my Vespa

On my ride down to Jacksonville Florida from Knoxville Tennessee I've decided that Tesla drivers now have the dubious honor of being the biggest assholes in the road (other than white van drivers and even that is getting to be a close call). They were especially obnoxious in the Atlanta metro area. No turn signal, cutting in and out of traffic even when less than 3 car lengths between cars giving 50+ mph.

On multi lane roads I will avoid the right lane unless turning. In general the middle lane seems safest and I watch my rear mirror at stops until there is at least one car between me and oncoming traffic. Position drivers side with room to go up next to the car in front in case a car doesn't look like it will stop behind me in time not to hit me.

Justjake,

I drive 23 miles each way to and from work on the freeway. It
gives a measure of time to observe driving behavior.

Obviously, my observations are not statistically sound - just
a reaction to what is going on around me. Admission, the
police stay off the road during rush hour - so I do drive fast
over the posted limit.

I find Audi, BMW, and some new Pickup drivers the most aggressive.

I find Mercedes, Porsche, Cadillac, Corvette drivers the most reserved.

Maybe this is all just demographics and powerful engines.
Younger successful folks with A Type personalities. I do
think the other group in the Benzes.... are older farts.

Best to you - Audi's are nice looking.

Bob Copeland


Mustang Sally, you've gotta slow that Mustang down.

Does it still sound like a regular vehicle horn, or did you add on of those train horns like the pickup drivers out here? Loud horn is on my to-do list, for sure, but I'll miss the little "beep, beep" I send to let the kids know I'm home. I'd TAP that! There are moments in life when I realize that there are people out there who understand me. Why do I pay my therapist so much?!?

I can say that I reserve my most idiotic behaviour to open, empty highways & mountain roads, just for my own delight. I get all my aggressive driving kicks on the scooter now.

its more like a loud horn look on Scooterwest and they sell them and show how to install them

I did have a first yesterday. I am used to cars pulling out of driveways and totally ignoring me and trying to push me off the road, but yesterday a motorcycle did it, he actually pulled out of the place I service my Vespa and tried to cut me off. I was surprised as usually two wheeled vehicles are nicer to each other. Oh well

The question is also
Which part of the lane do you ride in?
I ride in the part of the lane where the cars in the adjacent lane can see me in their mirrors
The left part of the right lane
The right part of the left lane
I avoid the middle lane, or ride where the closest car can see me, or right in the center in traffic
The right part of the right lane will make cars feel like they can lane split with you
Same thing for the left part of the left lane

Whatever you do own whatever part of the road you are riding on if you leave room, people will squeeze in

Oh yes, definitely true in Vancouver too!

Garthhh,

Some what the same. I ride in either the far right or far left
(freeway three lanes) so I can have a controlled weave off the
road if silly driving accident stuff starts.

I think the constant defensive driving skills employed on scooters
makes you a safer driver in your car.

Bob Copeland

This has long been my fear as well, hence my habit of checking those mirrors almost hyper-vigilantly. The danger with this maneuver - assuming I understand your description properly - is the possibility that someone in the opposing lane may not see you, but only an opening for them to quickly turn into. This is why I not only tack left in that lane, but hang back by at least a car-length behind whatever's in front of me. I'd say it has more than a little to do with it. Add to that the nervous tension/unease of having to relocate under duress, coupled with uncertainty about near-future prospects, and here we are. My personal timeline of Chief Jackass Rides has gone from BMW > Prius > Audi > Tesla, so I'd say your observation scans with mine, with (dis)honorable mention for RAM drivers. Everything you said, baba: I'm now of the opinion that the two safest places for me on the Vespa are (1) major highways like the Garden State Parkway and (somewhat less-so) New Jersey Turnpike, and (2) the otherwise-mean streets of Gotham. Of all the miles I've ridden on the big roads, I've had four dicey situations, two of which involved the bike breaking down (which I negotiated rather well), the other two I saw coming early enough to take appropriate action. Otherwise, most of the time, drivers on the slabs either keep their distance well behind me, or just pass on the left. Meanwhile, in the Big City, my decades of cycling those same streets have sufficiently sharpened my senses to anticipate stupid moves by others quickly, regardless of conveyance; on one of my last rides into Gotham this year, I encountered a passel of e-unicycle riders weaving in and out of traffic. I shook my helmeted head at them but also gave them the thumbs-up.

The dangerous stuff for me now - and it's been this way a while - is on local streets not far from home. This is where all three crashes I've suffered have happened. Le Wife has urged me to cut back severely on Winter riding (her thinking being that few drivers expect seeing anyone on two wheels in Winter), and I'll likely comply with that once I'm actually in proper shape to ride again. My only concern is, given that Asbury Park is a destination town in Summer (we just made Thrillist.com's #1 spot on their "20 beach destinations" list…groan), we get hordes of out-of-towners who completely flout traffic laws here, speed limits in particular; over the past few summers we've had at least two spectacularly horrific crashes right in front of the house, the last of which took out two parked cars belonging to our next-door neighbors, as well as a NJ Transit bus. In my mind, there is no "safest" season.

The most dangerous place to ride is past a school when the kids are being picked up at the end of the day. Completely unpredictable stops, u-turns, and completely self-absorbed drivers. Lane position means nothing.

On a regular street, no matter what you do, you are invisible. Assume the worst. And, while BMW drivers are definitely the most aggressive, the most likely to simply drive right into me are Prius drivers. Granted, it'll be at a nice sedate 33 mph, but it'll be that everywhere, when turning, at stop signs, on the freeway - just motoring along trying for 100 mpg.