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Lucky
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SIP have the catalog entry for the VMC 244, along with a new video where they do a pretty thorough review and put a prototype on the dyno.

Bolted on to an existing tuned out Rally 200 motor, it did 30HP with a SIP Road 3.0. Once the motor got a SIP Viper, it jumped to 33 HP and the redline extended out to 8,500 RPM's

He compares it to a couple other top ends, but doesn't name names for obvious reasons, and it beats whatever it was, albeit by a hair.

And at $450, it's a bargain compared to whatever the competition was (Quattrini M244?)

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Jet Eye Master
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33bhp with a wide flat curve. Pull away, change to 4th, ride it like an automatic.

Does need the 127mm conrod, casings modified and much bigger carb. Market will be the same people as the M244. For those who want fast the MHR is still the winner by a long way.
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Lucky
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But for a high powered touring bike, it'll be a beast. That's with a 62mm crank and VForce4 reeds, too.

I think it sells SIP's exhausts even better than it sells VMC's top ends.
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I have a second P200 case waiting to be built. Looks like a good, next winter project. Let them get it on the market and tested a bit. I'm satisfied with my Pinasco 225 for basic cruising/touring and it 1/2 the hp of this.
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⬆️    About 3 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Lucky
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VMC 244 is now listed at SIP, but with an availability of, "Currently not available, delivery time up to 4 weeks."

Price $487.59.

It has me thinking that it might be about time to revisit my long-ignored P200 plans...
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Hooked
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Mannnnnnnnn...it looks like my plan to keep that spare P motor stock may go out the window now. That price point with those numbers? Don't know if I'll be able to say no.


Damn it.......
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Molto Verboso
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I was holding out for the VMC, but just got the M244. Collecting parts for the build. Almost there. I have another motor that may get the VMC at some point.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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Hurry. Will be sold out this time next week!
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Trying to think if 600euros is a good deal. Power performance price…

Hope it performs differently to the quatrinni.
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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108 wrote:
Trying to think if 600euros is a good deal. Power performance price…

Hope it performs differently to the quatrinni.
The Quattrini is 630 euros at SIP... the VMC is 550 at Avotecnica. Good price, not sure whether they take off the VAT like SIP do for buyers outside of the EU? But you're in the EU if memory serves?

https://avotecnica.com/cilindri-gruppi-termici/3210-gruppo-termico-vmc-explorer-244cc-o-72mm-candela-centrale.html
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Ginch wrote:
The Quattrini is 630 euros at SIP... the VMC is 550 at Avotecnica. Good price, not sure whether they take off the VAT like SIP do for buyers outside of the EU? But you're in the EU if memory serves?

https://avotecnica.com/cilindri-gruppi-termici/3210-gruppo-termico-vmc-explorer-244cc-o-72mm-candela-centrale.html
Yeah UK/HK.

That's not badly priced. Still a bit of budget when you look at crank and engine reinforcements.

Not sure if larger displacement is for me. Touring setups have never really been of much interest.

More excited about the 135cc that's the size of a 50cc from VMC.
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108 wrote:
More excited about the 135cc that's the size of a 50cc from VMC.
Yes they do look good! And fit a standard 50 case if I recall?
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Ginch wrote:
Yes they do look good! And fit a standard 50 case if I recall?
Yeah cases and cowl. So you visually can't tell it's more than 50cc.

Of course it's a different story when you start the engine.
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108 wrote:
Trying to think if 600euros is a good deal. Power performance price…

Hope it performs differently to the quatrinni.
What don't you like about the Quatrinni?

Editors Note: Branding is just begging to be labeled by the public as the "exploder". Not sure I woulda gone ther.

🙂
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Lucky
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It'll only get mis-branded if it's not a good jug. Given that they're going for a high-power touring build, I don't have an issue with the name, other than I think naming stuff like cylinders is kind've silly in general.

For what it's designed to do, I think it's a fair price. Once we get some reports back on the first production batch, I might be about ready to revisit my own P200 build, for which this might be just the thing (super-overpowered tourer/shopping trolley).
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AZ Lynch provided me some JB weld modified bonanza P2 cases (which moved from years on his shelf to years on mine). Perhaps I should look at this cylinder for that - tho I am an avowed "small block" guy…

Apparently, they aren't going to build themselves
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Lucky
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charlieman22 wrote:
Apparently, they aren't going to build themselves
No, but if you plant them in an appropriately-sized frame, then place them a south-facing window and keep them damp with 2T, you might be surprised what you get.
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charlieman22 wrote:
What don't you like about the Quatrinni?

Editors Note: Branding is just begging to be labeled by the public as the "exploder". Not sure I woulda gone ther.

🙂
Hoping it's different as a point of differentiation. Not that it's a kit to stay away from.

So there's more choices of kits with slightly different characteristics.

I've dabbled with a 244 on a rotary and a pinasco's 251, both only seem to really come to life later in the rev range. Maybe it didn't help that both had box exhausts.

Exploder… good one…
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for a touring setup, a strong box will give you the low end grunt and be a little less loud as an added bonus.
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The pinasco had to use the proprietary exhaust. So not much choice there…

The quatrinni was a SIP road 3.

Both had power, just felt a bit pedestrian. Granted, timing wasn't set perfect on both, especially on the quatrinni.
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The Pinasco 251 was proprietary EVERYTHING. I'll admit that I liked the splined rather than keyed crank-to-clutch mating, but they even tried to lock everyone in with that.
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UTC quote
The Pinasco needs someone like VMC to build a cylinder to reach its potential. It's a nice simple idea - a big T5 - that unfortunately is let down of course by Pinasco's very ordinary port timing. And proprietary everything.
charlieman22 wrote:
... tho I am an avowed "small block" guy…
Out of all the "large block" motors you've built, which would you say is your least favourite and why? Razz emoticon
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Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX181 Quattrini and some motorbikes
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UTC quote
This VMC 244 looks like a really good port layout. With the two aux exhaust ports over the transfers, even if its not so quick out the box, it's really tunable. When modified it could actually be quicker than the malossi kit.

However, I really wish they didn't need the engine case modified for that spigot. Certainly a deal breaker for me.
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Ginch wrote:
The Pinasco needs someone like VMC to build a cylinder to reach its potential. It's a nice simple idea - a big T5 - that unfortunately is let down of course by Pinasco's very ordinary port timing. And proprietary everything.



Out of all the "large block" motors you've built, which would you say is your least favourite and why? Razz emoticon
Although I didn't build the pinasco 251, I did give it a look over as it wasn't running properly, that's the engine that probably sucked the most (closely followed by any engine that needs the exhaust to come off to remove the rear wheel (I know, probably 90% of builds)).

The intake with the plastic and the basic exhaust suck ass.
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chandlerman wrote:
The Pinasco 251 was proprietary EVERYTHING. I'll admit that I liked the splined rather than keyed crank-to-clutch mating, but they even tried to lock everyone in with that.
Didn't SIP release a splined crank now? But I think only fits their new clutch though.
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108 wrote:
Didn't SIP release a splined crank now? But I think only fits their new clutch though.
I think that was 306 only from what I can see.

Maybe not splined, but the Uncle Tom crank I bought has an oval-shaped key... at least it doesn't do that thing where the semi-circular woodruff key moves in the slot making it very difficult to get your clutch in. Especially when the clutch is a tight fit.
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Ginch wrote:
I think that was 306 only from what I can see.

Maybe not splined, but the Uncle Tom crank I bought has an oval-shaped key... at least it doesn't do that thing where the semi-circular woodruff key moves in the slot making it very difficult to get your clutch in. Especially when the clutch is a tight fit.
Ah this one, found it:

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/long-stroke-crankshaft-sip-performance_45021620?q=crank

Fits this clutch (which is BFA, kinda. you can use it on other engines):

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-sip-cosa-2-race-ultrastrong-23-teeth-primary-65-teeth-sip-bfa_93405500

I'm pretty sure someone mentioned it here before...
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108 wrote:
Ah this one, found it:
Well done, I didn't see it and I went through a few pages of cranks. Nice that they're not that much different in price I think?
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Ginch, didn't you have a 244 project yourself?
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charlieman22 wrote:
Ginch, didn't you have a 244 project yourself?
Yes! Nearing completion (although that description can sometime last years) and hoping to have it on the road in the next few weeks. My mate Stefano did some work on the case for me, which was the removal of the "Malossi" logo casting and giving me somewhere to stamp a number. I may not have bothered except it'll be going into an unregistered frame that needs to be inspected and roadworthied before it can go on the road and I wanted it to be in the usual place and unremarkable.

Anyway he did an absolutely amazing job. He said afterwards if he had to do it again he'd weld up the logo then mill, rather than mill it down. Still plenty of meat in it so I'm not concerned.
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Wow.
Super clean!
*if you are gonna weld and machine, don't forget to peen between!
CM22's rules for life.
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charlieman22 wrote:
Wow.
Super clean!
*if you are gonna weld and machine, don't forget to peen between!
CM22's rules for life.
No welding required on the VR One cases. And they're brand new. So almost VaderKleen!
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Definitely woulda scored 3 stones tongue logos on the vader-meter.

Everything I've read says the 244 is lumpy touring goodness.

Consider a mini thread when assembly time comes!
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UTC quote
I was feeling a bit rusty to be honest. So Stefano and I did it over a weekend at his place. It was nice to have the mill on hand to do all those jobs that are tricky by hand. And someone who was willing to smack the brand new crank until it was balanced... beyond my willingness to destroy my toys! Not many photos but there is this.

https://youtube.com/shorts/UELtl0CPjv4?feature=share
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Oh man, taking a mallet, perfectly shiny new crank out of the box.
Puckering.
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UTC quote
charlieman22 wrote:
Oh man, taking a mallet, perfectly shiny new crank out of the box.
Puckering.
Absolutely! But he gave it not much more than what looked like a tap. Certainly not a thwack. He said it's probably more about feeling good when you see it going into the motor straight, than any noticeable or long-term effects. And that chances are it would just settle back in to where it was anyway.
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Lucky
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FMP got himself one...

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O ring past the cylinder studs is a strange one.

I think maybe there's not enough space?

But maybe they're assuming you'll end up using sealant additionally, like with other kits.

The O ring is an extra barrier. I wouldn't mind having one on the egig cylinder head just for peace of mind.

Noticed the instructions ask for 0.3mm piston ring gap… thought it might be the usual 0.2-0.25mm
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I suspect the oring outside is to allow you to port the exhaust through the walls and into the stud bays.

Perhaps anyhow.
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