Modern Vespa

A Yamaha rider told me this today.
Is it true - new Vespa 300's require premium gas?
O.S.

Yes. And so did the old ones.

All current Vespa, Piaggio Models: 95 ROZ with up to 10% Bioethanol / Organic ethanol

In Europe is "Premium" 98, 100 or 102 ROZ (depends on brand)

Edit: realized that octane (ROZ/RON) in Europe is different to us octane (MON) in North America (see below). Sorry!

YES, it doesn't like 87/91 only 93... It will misbehave and may go on strike if you use lesser than premium...

Many of the California stations only offer 91 as 'premium.' Been running my GTS on it forever without an issue.

Fun fact: there is one local station that does sell 100 octane for about $9.29gal

Hmm so I should try 91 again and see, I know when I tried on my 2010 GTS 300 it was sluggish and not running smooth.

Considering you'll only save, what $0.20 per fill-up? I'd stick with what's working for you. Unless it's more convenient to get 91 in NY as well.

If this were a 22gal tank, might be worth the experiment.

From 2019 GTS 300 owners manual

Edit: realized that octane (ROZ/RON) in Europe is different to us octane (MON) in North America (see below). Sorry!

Looks like I'm driving to that one station for 100 octane @ $9.26 per gallon now.

I've also been calling the saddle a seat.. forever.

Before long, the word color will have a 'u' in it.

That's really crazy…

Have a look on:
https://motocrossactionmag.com/ask-the-mxperts-why-does-euro-fuel-have-so-much-more-octane-than-american-fuel-2/

"Simple math will show you that because of the 8 to 10 point difference of RON over MON, the octane rating shown on American fuel is approximately 5 points lower than the rating shown in Europe for the same fuel. In essence American 90-octane fuel would be the same as European 95 octane fuel."

*ROZ & RON = Europe
MON = North America

See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating

So octane is not octane…

and I'm pretty sure your Liberty requires 95 (90 US)

Correct octane

According to Vespa, all "modern" Vespas need premium. 91 is the best gas (actually E10) available in my area. I have used both 91 and 87, and can't tell the difference. Runs the same and does not overheat. Spark plug looked fine when I did the 12,000 mile service a few months ago. I don't hear any pinging sound even under full throttle going uphill.

When putting gas in a Vespa, or any other vehicle with a very small tank, you are likely to get at least half a tank of whatever the last person who used the pump before you got.

If you are mostly riding around town, you could carry a one gallon gas can, if you have a place to put it, and when you go to put gas in your Vespa, put about half a gallon in the gas can before putting gas in your tank, then pour what you put in the can into your car.

Around where I live, the difference in price between 87 and 91 can be as much as $.70 a gallon. Right now 87 is $4.50 a gallon, 91 is over $5.00 a gallon.

Same on my 2009 GTV. Always used 91 octane, no problems. Miguel

The choices around my area of the US are 87, 89 and 93. So, I use 93 since the first bit will likely be 87.

Somewhere (I don't have the link) the subject of residual fuel has been beaten half to death on MV (as per usual ) and as I recall it's a pretty insignificant amount...well less than half a tank.

Edit: Here you go- Question about fuel pump hoses at gas stations
Somewhere between jimc's half a cup to 1 cup at most...about 3% of a 2 gallon fill.

So I'll throw another variant in this discussion. A few of my club members only use Zero ethanol only with there fuel injected modern Vespa. I thought zero was only really beneficial for bikes with carbs. They swear better overall performance and mileage. Anyone else here use Zero ethanol with fuel injected models and see a real difference?

The highest normally available premium in my state (SD) is 91, and premium gasoline is almost all non-ethanol here as well. I use it in all of our current Motorcycles and my '20 GTS300 HPE, and they all run well on it.

Because it's so widely available and convenient in my state, I almost exclusively use non-ethanol 91 octane gasoline in my '20 GTS300 HPE.

I have, on occasion, used 10% ethanol 91 octane in my GTS when the straight stuff wasn't immediately available, and can't recall any noticable difference in how it runs with. it.

If only 10% ethanol blend 91 was available, I think my Vespa would be just fine on it.

Just to be a bitter pill, I will point out that in the first robot vid above he filled both scooters with 87 reg 10% EtOh.

hmmmm

with the kind of mileage these little bikes get no big deal springing for premium

I'm using non-ethanol in my (2022 Sprint) scoot. Usually around the 90 rating. Last fill-up was November and it's been ridden here and there. No issues.

That's not true. The Vespa 300 does not require premium gasoline. According to the manufacturer's recommendations, regular gasoline with an octane rating of at least 91 is sufficient for this scooter. However, if the octane rating of regular gasoline in your area is lower than 91, premium gasoline with an appropriate octane rating should be used.

Over the years I've traveled a fair bit around the US on my Vespas and on the Spirts City which uses the same engine as the equivalent year Vespa GTS. In some places there is no choice of grade of gas. For example I stopped at a gas station in rural Georgia and they had farm diesel for not street legal vehicles, their regular diesel pump was bagged and regular 87 gas. Fortunately a quick check on Apple Maps showed a couple of other stations within the gas I still had but out west I've seen stations like this and the next closest was 50 miles or more away. So I've used everything from 10 ethanol to 93 ethanol free. Normally I use 91-93 (varies by part of the country I'm in) with up to 10% ethanol. So that is my base. If I use 87 my gas mileage goes down 3-5 mpg. If I use ethanol free it goes up 4-5. Performance differences are negligible though perception is that it is a little tougher sounding if I've had to run consecutive tanks of regular E10. Interestingly if I run ethanol free regular there isn't a noticeable mpg hit. Given a choice I will use ethanol free premium.

I mostly roll with 91 here in KY and touring elsewhere, no issues at all as 93 not sold all places.

Talking the US rating system here, regular gasoline or E10 blended regular gasoline typically has an octane rating of 87. Yes, Piaggio recommends 91 rated fuel (US system), but that is not called regular in the US.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_standard_octane_ratings

In a pinch I've used 87 added to what small amount of 91 was in the tank to make it home, again not a problem.

I prefer non-ethanol. Here it's 89 octane. Butt dyno say's stronger pull without pinging. Speedo say's 2 extra MPH at WOT.
I only use non-ethanol in my van because I only use it every 2 week or so. Driving van= no fun. Riding scoots= fun.
Only 2 complaints about my BV's. 1) Weight of bike while moving in and out of van. 2) Premium gas and shitty MPG.

the manual for a SH150i says it only needs 86, so less than the GTS

https://www.manua.ls/honda/sh150i-2010/manual?p=97

Interesting video. The main thing is as long as your engine isn't "pinging" under load you should be ok. Electronic ignition aids in compensating for pre-ignition/detonation when the recommended octane level of fuel is not available. If the engine is singing and not pinging that's the goal. The audible pinging noise is when it's time to back out of the throttle, that's when the damage happens regardless of fuel economy and so-called cost savings. Use the manufactures recommended octane level but don't fret when you must use lower octane fuel on occasion.

I don't know any gas stations here that don't separate non-ethanol from other fuels. Dedicated pumps.

Yes. But with 48,000 miles, it pings on 86. So carbon build up. Must be why it goes 75 MPH when the temp gets above 80.

Ethanol is just plain bad stuff. It will damage ANY fuel system, whether it is carbureted or EFI. I have replaced a lot of in tank fuel pumps on EFI cars that had ethanol gas left in them for a long time. They were badly corroded. You also get about 10% better mileage from real gas. Gasoline is petroleum based. Ethanol (alcohol) is water based.

^^^ Oh shit, here we go again 🤦‍♂️

Resolved: the scootering world would be a better place if topics involving ethanol, octane, fuel additives, oil types, and oil brands were restricted to two responses, each required to reference a manual or label screenshot, and then locked forever.

Discuss.

Say you don't understand chemistry without saying you don't understand chemistry.

Wait, what??
Are you suggesting only factual information be allowed in such threads?
...what's the world coming to?...

Factual information and scientific facts can be rather boring. Why not just stick with made up info, such as "alcohol is water based" and take it from there? Oh wait, that seems to have happened already.

Well there goes a quarter of MV's traffic...😉

91 recommended and try to find ZERO ethanol if all possible.

Thanks - clears that right up.
91 is fine - just like my Piaggio Liberty manual states ~ per the AFPM.

O.S.