Modern Vespa

It's time for my first full engine rebuild.

I've done many simple engine fixes-- new pistons + rings, stator soldering, clutch replacements.

However, this is the first time I am really going to pull everything apart and start from the ground.

I have a rally 180 engine that is siezed. I took the head off today and it looks like it'll be easy to get it unstuck (famous last words).

I also have a p200 engine sitting on the shelf.

So here's my question: What should I buy? Obviously, new pistons and rings. But what should I buy in terms of seals and bearings? Everything? What is your advice for an engine-familiar-first-time-full-rebuilder?

Adversely, should I just rebuild and use the P engine? (That's the plan down the road.) Should I just leave the Rally 180 engine on the shelf and focus my time & money on the P engine?

Help!

I'm looking at buying all of this from scooter mercato.

About $240 worth of stuff.

Anything you think I should definitely grab while putting this order together?

How about specialty tools to install bearings, crankshaft etc?

the P2 rebuild will be cheaper and has many more options parts and tuning wise over the rally motor.

also, determining the condition of the crank would be one of my first priorities in that it's a big ticket item. if the bore is screwed you don't have a ton of options on pistons and near zero options on a cylinder.

but a rally180 with a P motor is just another cool old bike. the motor is what makes it.

Depends how bad the seize is. You may be able to hone it and throw in some new rings.

If it's toast, I'd think about getting a "conversion" top end. I believe this one comes with a GS piston, which is a bonus. But you'll have to get a new exhaust and exhaust flange because the exhaust from your Rally 180 wont fit.


https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Cylinder-Assembly/41470600_2

if that set up is with a GS piston then that's a very decent deal.

I was toying with the idea of boring the spigot on the cases vs turning down a cylinder so that way it was set up to take any cylinder, but that's a move there's no coming back from...

I've machined it both ways for people: open up the bore on the cases and i have turned down a p200 cylinder as well. I kinda like cases that are not modified like that, something that has not been fucked with. . . and unless you are competent, it can be done poorly.

my opinion-stock Rally 180 or at least one with a turned down P200 cylinder is much more valuable.

Pic updates from the engine disassembly.

Crank looks... well not great.

Piston is slowly coming out with heat and PB blaster.

waterlogged top end = crank has turned its last revolution in an engine

bummer

Wait a second...

Aren't VSE1M engine P200 engines? Or at least rally 200 engines at the earliest?

Yes VSE = Rally 200 and P200
VSD = Rally 180

Whelp! I guess I got a rally 180 frame with a p200 engine.
Not the end of the world.

More parts available for less $$

I guess I lose some of the rare factor but oh well.

Well now you don't have to feel guilty putting a P lump in

So after finding out that the engine in the Rally 180 I have is a P engine, I decided to pull the engine in the P200 I bought in the package deal with the Rally to see if somehow it was a Rally engine.
This other P engine tells an interesting story.

It has a racing expansion exhaust. After taking the head off, it looks like it has a pinasco kit and a Gilardoni aluminum racing cylinder.

The engine cases have Piaggio symbols everywhere. However, on the main case, the stamped VIN is a M019M. Looks like it was pin stamped too.

What the heck is this!? Google searching (and youtube searching) provides no answers. Even the 2 previous posts here on MV lead to no answers.

Is this a malossi or pinasco racing case that somebody stamped their own numbers onto (as is recomended by both companies)?

Anybody ever seen something like this? TIA

agree with Johnny mule's assessment, more than likely that crank and cranked its last.

that's a 125/150 block

Gilrdoni made the Pinasco 177 which was alum barrel, and you can see the exhaust stub is small block. also the port on the cases is not consistent with 200.

my guess is that block is from SEA somewhere. early LML, Taiwan, dan motor something along those lines. I've seen that type "stamping" on those.

so you have a set of P2 cases with maybe some internals and a set of 125/150 cases with the older lazy Pinasco kit and question mark on everything else. what was the pipe that came with?

New (to me) p200 crank, cylinder and piston scored.

Installation this weekend!

This is such a weird engine combo. Just talked to a shop owner down here and he said those cylinders are really common in Italy but this is the first one he's ever seen state side.

not all that odd. just a super early kit, is all. back then you rarely saw Pinasco small block stuff because it was so much more expensive than malossi or polini. even now I only know one guy running a Pinasco on a small block.

the cases probably came over from ASC or Scooterworks would be my guess. I suppose it's also possible that they were originally in a bodge and somebody taco'd the frame up and just grabbed the motor out.

anyway, a lot of potential to be something decent

M091M would be a catalyzed Euro 2 emissions PX150 engine (1998 to 2008)…

All later stamping was done this way, like all modern vehicles, so it was harder to restamp a VIN…