Mon, 03 Apr 2023 14:23:18 +0000

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Mon, 03 Apr 2023 14:23:18 +0000 quote
In my experience, there is a zero chance of breaking off the stock stick if I gently raise it up and down in the fill hole until it drops into the internal passage. When correctly aligned, it goes right in. Just don't force anything. Applying force will not get it aligned correctly.
Mon, 03 Apr 2023 15:58:10 +0000

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Mon, 03 Apr 2023 15:58:10 +0000 quote
For some reason in all the pictures, the red dipstick looks shorter the the original. Is it?
Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:28:37 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:28:37 +0000 quote
My 2023 has a but over 2,000 ,lies on it and no sign that it is burning out. I checked it every 500ish miles, love the sight glass. So at least my 2023 doesn't have the using oil issues of the 2920 HPE.

Last edited by cdwise on Tue, 19 Sep 2023 23:18:45 +0000; edited 1 time
OP
Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:56:55 +0000

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Mon, 03 Apr 2023 16:56:55 +0000 quote
bluside wrote:
For some reason in all the pictures, the red dipstick looks shorter the the original. Is it?
Exactly the same length
Mon, 03 Apr 2023 22:34:09 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Mon, 03 Apr 2023 22:34:09 +0000 quote
Billrush wrote:
Exactly the same length
But not in the pictures.
Tue, 04 Apr 2023 01:29:11 +0000

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Tue, 04 Apr 2023 01:29:11 +0000 quote
znomit wrote:
But not in the pictures.
It's an optical delusion
Tue, 04 Apr 2023 15:18:33 +0000

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Tue, 04 Apr 2023 15:18:33 +0000 quote
The finished product.
The dremel grinder cut-off wheel I used.

The chrome stick showing oil level on notches. Oil level is more visible on this one than the black dipstick, but both are usable now. Did this after experimenting on the black stick.

First iteration on the black dipstick. The original grooves are more visible on this stick than the chrome. You can see how I scuffed up the indication area and the oil is still not visible. I cut 4 notches, one at each intersection of the grooves, then made one just above the full mark on one side of the stick so I could tell if I overfilled.

Side view of chrome stick for approx depth of notches. Tried the scuffing method first on this stick also. The full notch is slightly more shallow and isn't noticeable in the side view but from the top you can see oil in the notch. Just the 4 notches on this one and did not do the overfill notch.

The oil isn't clearly visible on the stick, but in the notches is clearly visible.

After favorable results, I cut notches on opposite side of the dipstick so it is visible on 2 sides.

Hopefully, this is a bit clearer for you to follow my tinkering.


The grinder


The Silver Dispstick


Black dipstick


Silver dipstick side view

Tue, 04 Apr 2023 23:05:13 +0000

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2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 50,000km
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Tue, 04 Apr 2023 23:05:13 +0000 quote
the thing that bugs me about these metal dipsticks is to insert them you need to learn the trick of doing so correctly. So once you learn the trick you could just use the plastic one with no fear. ie the metal seems pointless

handy pics: HPE 300 Oil Dipstick Broken? Here are pictures of the inside

(I position the stick and when I think I have it at the correct angle I let got allowing it to drop, if it doesn't drop fully then the angle was wrong and I try again).
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 00:49:14 +0000

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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 00:49:14 +0000 quote
SteelBytes wrote:
the thing that bugs me about these metal dipsticks is to insert them you need to learn the trick of doing so correctly. So once you learn the trick you could just use the plastic one with no fear. ie the metal seems pointless

handy pics: HPE 300 Oil Dipstick Broken? Here are pictures of the inside

(I position the stick and when I think I have it at the correct angle I let got allowing it to drop, if it doesn't drop fully then the angle was wrong and I try again).
I guess that means yes (will it work) in a round about way. Thank you for your help.

So to add to the being pointless, I'll pass along another bit of information about the metal dipsticks. After the engine is hot, so the dipstick ... oooouuuuucccch!!!! The plastic one can still be handled rather easily. You'll need gloves for the metal ones until the engine cools down.
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 00:54:48 +0000

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The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 00:54:48 +0000 quote
Clampett wrote:
I guess that means yes (will it work) in a round about way. Thank you for your help.

So to add to the being pointless, I'll pass along another bit of information about the metal dipsticks. After the engine is hot, so the dipstick ... oooouuuuucccch!!!! The plastic one can still be handled rather easily. You'll need gloves for the metal ones until the engine cools down.
Don't forget you should only check the oil level when the engine is cold. It expands quite a bit when warm...

First thing in the morning is a good time.
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 01:09:05 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 01:09:05 +0000 quote
jimc wrote:
Don't forget you should only check the oil level when the engine is cold. It expands quite a bit when warm...
So the oil level goes up when hot and the dipstick gets longer so goes down.
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 01:25:52 +0000

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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 01:25:52 +0000 quote
znomit!!!! Me likes how you think.

There are 2 paragraphs explaining checking the oil level. I know there are various iterations of the manual per model, but the HPE manual does not say ONLY when cold. The first paragraph instructs during cold before a ride. 2nd paragraph instructs on after a ride and how long to wait. 10 minutes. I also understand that hot to the touch can be personal experience. 10 minutes after shut down, the metal dipstick is still hot to my touch.

So Bill, did you try again or do anything else to vary the attempt at reading the oil level on the CNC dipstick?
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 10:04:13 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 10:04:13 +0000 quote
jimc wrote:
Don't forget you should only check the oil level when the engine is cold. It expands quite a bit when warm...

First thing in the morning is a good time.
Hmmm...



Wed, 05 Apr 2023 10:05:55 +0000

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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 10:05:55 +0000 quote
znomit wrote:
Hmmm...
Poor little guys. I want to rescue them and hug them lots and then warm them up with lots of thrashing
OP
Wed, 05 Apr 2023 23:44:49 +0000

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Wed, 05 Apr 2023 23:44:49 +0000 quote
Clampett wrote:
znomit!!!! Me likes how you think.

So Bill, did you try again or do anything else to vary the attempt at reading the oil level on the CNC dipstick?
MR. Clampett,

The sad truth is my Red CNC is still hard to read. Your silver one shows the oil pooled in the groves you cut. Mine does not. I recently changed the oil. Maybe my oil is still too clear? Maybe if I sand the red anodizing off, it will be silver like yours and show better.

I have paused my experiment. The black plastic OEM dipstick is back on the job.


Red one is too hard to read. I measured them both. Same length.

Thu, 06 Apr 2023 05:49:15 +0000

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Thu, 06 Apr 2023 05:49:15 +0000 quote
Maybe you should cut a groove down to the end of the shaft. You'd have to cut it very straight and with a precise depth. Nothing I would do by hand alone.
OP
Thu, 06 Apr 2023 15:12:28 +0000

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Thu, 06 Apr 2023 15:12:28 +0000 quote
This seems to work.

1. I still cannot see oil in the grooves I cut on the other side of the photo below.

2. I was focused on the grooves, so didn't see the other side where I had used a Dremel sanding disc to remove a strip of anodizing. That side is shown below.

I think this is now useable. Yea!

I am tempted to Dremel sand more of the anodizing off or another strip.

Of course, I could "leave well enough alone"


Flat surface I had sanded away the red anodizing before painting black. Doesn't reflect light so I can see where oil ends.

Thu, 06 Apr 2023 23:23:40 +0000

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Thu, 06 Apr 2023 23:23:40 +0000 quote
this thread is making me wonder if some people who have bought this metal sticks have gone back to using the original plastic for readability
OP
Fri, 07 Apr 2023 00:49:19 +0000

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Fri, 07 Apr 2023 00:49:19 +0000 quote
SteelBytes wrote:
this thread is making me wonder if some people who have bought this metal sticks have gone back to using the original plastic for readability
Ya think?
Fri, 07 Apr 2023 15:42:07 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Fri, 07 Apr 2023 15:42:07 +0000 quote
Billrush wrote:
The sad truth is my Red CNC is still hard to read. Your silver one shows the oil pooled in the groves you cut. Mine does not. I recently changed the oil. Maybe my oil is still too clear?
Perhaps a problem with dipstick/oil compatibility?

Discuss.
Fri, 07 Apr 2023 20:11:33 +0000

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Fri, 07 Apr 2023 20:11:33 +0000 quote
You can get some Fluorescent UV dye and add it to the motor oil, then use a black light to check the dipstick and the sheets next time you stay at a Motel 6.
Fri, 07 Apr 2023 21:27:29 +0000

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Fri, 07 Apr 2023 21:27:29 +0000 quote
Motovista wrote:
You can get some Fluorescent UV dye and add it to the motor oil, then use a black light to check the dipstick and the sheets next time you stay at a Motel 6.
Put some sugar in the oil. Leave the dipstick on the ground and see where the ants congregate.


No, please don't do that.
Tue, 11 Apr 2023 00:58:21 +0000

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Tue, 11 Apr 2023 00:58:21 +0000 quote
McRuss wrote:
One word: Sight Glass.....OK, two words!
I bought one and it will be installed the next belt change.

Wayne B
⬆️    About 23w elapsed between posts    ⬇️
Sun, 17 Sep 2023 03:25:25 +0000

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Sun, 17 Sep 2023 03:25:25 +0000 quote
SteelBytes - Thank you so much for the pictures. They help explain why it is so challenging to get the dipstick to drop in. With a flashlight and the underseat bucket removed, I was able to look down to the oil port, but still had trouble aligning the dipstick as it is so long it hits the fuel tank. Finally, by placing the flat side of the handle against the side of the fuel tank and pushing the bottom of the dipstick toward the engine (not centered in the opening) it dropped into the lower holes.

We have replaced the stock oil pan with a sight glass pan from SIPs. It makes it so much easier to check the oil. When on the center stand the oil is topped off when the level is at the center of the sight glass. At the bottom of the sight glass it is at the low level. We never need to remove the dipstick unless we are adding oil. For that we have a 12 oz oil can with an 8" flexible spout (Goldenrod 707 Oiler) which makes it much easier, especially since we have crash bars in the way. And, when we next add oil, we will not remove the dipstick, but just lift if up enough to get our oil spout in.

One other note, when we replaced the drive belt (after Wild Cherry 175 completed the 2023 Cannonball Rally) we noticed scoring on the outside of the belt. After checking what may have caused it, we found that a casting fin on the new oil pan projected slightly above the inside of the engine case. A little gentle filing with a small single cut file removed the offending burr, to be flush with the case.
Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:15:08 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Sun, 17 Sep 2023 04:15:08 +0000 quote
Riding Amok wrote:
One other note, when we replaced the drive belt (after Wild Cherry 175 completed the 2023 Cannonball Rally) we noticed scoring on the outside of the belt. After checking what may have caused it, we found that a casting fin on the new oil pan projected slightly above the inside of the engine case. A little gentle filing with a small single cut file removed the offending burr, to be flush with the case.
That is interesting!
How many of the early broken belts reported are from dipstick haters?
Sun, 17 Sep 2023 20:36:00 +0000

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Sun, 17 Sep 2023 20:36:00 +0000 quote
The site glass oil pan is a stock GTS item modified. I cannot see how the addition of the glass could contribute to extra wear on the belt, unless the pan was cast that way from Piaggio.

When Scooterwest installed the site glass pan, I took the stock pan home. Same/same, except for the glass.
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 03:29:21 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 03:29:21 +0000 quote
cogind wrote:
The site glass oil pan is a stock GTS item modified. I cannot see how the addition of the glass could contribute to extra wear on the belt, unless the pan was cast that way from Piaggio.

When Scooterwest installed the site glass pan, I took the stock pan home. Same/same, except for the glass.
If you are going to get one, do so after the warranty is up. Putting that on your Vespa voids the warranty.
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:09:00 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 07:09:00 +0000 quote
cogind wrote:
The site glass oil pan is a stock GTS item modified. I cannot see how the addition of the glass could contribute to extra wear on the belt, unless the pan was cast that way from Piaggio.

When Scooterwest installed the site glass pan, I took the stock pan home. Same/same, except for the glass.
there's enough of a variance in casting, finishing and installing that the very top edge of the pan can sit just proud of the case causing the belt to rub just slightly when at top speed.

this is a known issue.
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:08:15 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 13:08:15 +0000 quote
Motovista wrote:
If you are going to get one, do so after the warranty is up. Putting that on your Vespa voids the warranty.
If a dealership refused to carry out in warranty work because of this I would be
furious with their mean spiritedness, I had my Fuel Pump changed in warranty
after having a aftermarket oil pan fitted.
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:59:21 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 15:59:21 +0000 quote
Motovista wrote:
If you are going to get one, do so after the warranty is up. Putting that on your Vespa voids the warranty.
since the only dealer reasonably close does vespa service one week every 2 months, and you have to book 6 months out just to get in, i just do all my own service anyway, so warranty disappeared at 609 miles when i did the break-in service.
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:42:17 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 18:42:17 +0000 quote
Coddy wrote:
If a dealership refused to carry out in warranty work because of this I would be
furious with their mean spiritedness, I had my Fuel Pump changed in warranty
after having a aftermarket oil pan fitted.
My pan was installed by Scooterwest when they did the 600 mile service.

I'm sure they wouldn't do it if there was a warranty issue.
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 22:33:17 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 22:33:17 +0000 quote
cogind wrote:
My pan was installed... when they did the 600 mile service.

I'm sure they wouldn't do it if there was a warranty issue.
You seem to be under the impression that dealers set terms and conditions for the warranty. The manufacturer sets the terms of the warranty, and approves or denies warranty claims. NHTSA recalls are not warranty work. They are done regardless, as long as the bike runs and the recall hasn't been done before. So if someone has a fuel pump replaced under a recall, that has nothing to do with the factory warranty.
Here's what is printed in page 92 of the owner's manual for the HPE, and probably in every owner's manual printed. You can decide for yourself what you think it means:

"IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT ORIGINAL PIAGGIO SPARE PARTS BE
USED, AS THESE ARE THE ONLY ONES OFFERING YOU THE SAME QUALITY
GUARANTEE AS THOSE INITIALLY FITTED ON THE VEHICLE. IT SHOULD BE
REMEMBERED THAT USING NON-ORIGINAL SPARE PARTS CAUSES YOUR
WARRANTY RIGHTS TO EXPIRE."
Tue, 19 Sep 2023 23:32:47 +0000

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Tue, 19 Sep 2023 23:32:47 +0000 quote
No the manufacturer doesn't get to set warranty terms in the US. The Magnuson-Moss act does. https://www.findlaw.com/consumer/consumer-transactions/warranty-laws-and-the-magnuson-moss-warranty-act-.html#:~:text=The%20Magnuson-Moss%20Warranty%20Act%2C%20passed%20by%20Congress%20in,with%20clear%20and%20detailed%20information%20about%20warranty%20coverage.
Tie in requirements such as only OEM parts and service at authorized dealers are explicity prohibited. So doing your own servicecor using third part parts unless it can be demonstrated that those parts caused the problem is prohibited. So unless your oil pan with a sight glass in it leaks out all your oil your warranty isn't void. If you can prove you did a service per manufacturer requirements your warranty still exists. If your problem is say an electrical issue neither doing your first service yourself or replacing stock oil pan with one that has a sight glass would void the warranty on electrical issues. Seriously folks read the law and if in doubt consult an attorney in your jurisdiction. Lemon laws are also not void by doing your own service or using third party parts.

Piaggio and anyone else can put what ever terms that appear to limit your warranty in their sales docs but they can't void what t.he law requires. I've seen lots of provisions in contracts that are 100% unenforceable yet claim to limit warranties and reduce liability for someone's actions out in to discourage people from enforcing their legal rights.
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 00:31:58 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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Wed, 20 Sep 2023 00:31:58 +0000 quote
Good luck in arbitration and litigation, if it went that far. You might want to read what the link you posted leads to, because I don't see that it leads where you claim it does.
Remember IRAC? Let's try a little exercise. Mentally craft a motion to dismiss on behalf of the manufacturer, based on the customer replacing an integral part of the engine crankcase, that is not routinely changed or removed during service, with something they ordered online. That didn't take long, did it? Now roughly estimate how much it would cost to bring in even one expert to refute the engineers Piaggio can certainly find in their employ, who designed the engine and will likely disagree with your expert.
You're not talking about requiring someone to use OEM air filters. You're talking about replacing what will be described in the response as an integral part of the engine, with something you ordered online.
If you are still convinced Magnuson-Moss applies, I would like to know how Magnuson-Moss allows you to replace your entire top end with a Polini cylinder kit, without voiding the warranty. It sounds like the same case, just more patently frivolous.
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:09:33 +0000

Hooked
2022 GTS 300 HPE, 2022 Primavera 150
Joined: Thu, 30 Jun 2022 02:21:42 +0000
Posts: 245
Location: Alabama
 
Hooked
2022 GTS 300 HPE, 2022 Primavera 150
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Posts: 245
Location: Alabama
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:09:33 +0000 quote
Hmmm, which should I listen to? The lawyer or the expert layman?
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:26:07 +0000

Ossessionato
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 50,000km
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
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Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Ossessionato
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 50,000km
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Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 01:26:07 +0000 quote
Clampett wrote:
Hmmm, which should I listen to? The lawyer or the expert layman?
would you want to use a lawyer to fight the shop/piaggio? or is that too much effort (and cost of the lawyer)?
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 02:00:39 +0000

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300, Buddy 125
Joined: Sat, 05 Apr 2008 22:51:53 +0000
Posts: 8802
Location: Knoxville, TN
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
GTS 300, Buddy 125
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Posts: 8802
Location: Knoxville, TN
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 02:00:39 +0000 quote
SteelBytes wrote:
would you want to use a lawyer to fight the shop/piaggio? or is that too much effort (and cost of the lawyer)?
In most cases small claims court with its $10,000 limit is sufficient and no need for an attorney. Dealers and Piaggio are well aware of the law and if a pattern of going against it catches up with them via class action suits which are very expensive for the companies and done on contingency basis by the attorneys. In fact you can often find tort lawyers who will take cases on under contingency with only the filing costs at risk by the person seeking compensation for warranty issues. That's one reason the US is so litigious.

As always though if you think there is an issue under the act you should consult a lawyer in your own jurisdiction and not rely on internet posts.
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 02:12:26 +0000

Ossessionato
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 50,000km
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 4042
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Ossessionato
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 50,000km
Joined: Wed, 18 Nov 2020 02:36:54 +0000
Posts: 4042
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 02:12:26 +0000 quote
cdwise wrote:
In most cases small claims court with its $10,000 limit is sufficient and no need for an attorney.
fair point, forgot about small claims courts
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:23:41 +0000

Enthusiast
Vespa GTS 300
Joined: Sat, 07 Jan 2023 20:40:46 +0000
Posts: 62
Location: SoCal
 
Enthusiast
Vespa GTS 300
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Posts: 62
Location: SoCal
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:23:41 +0000 quote
greasy125 wrote:
there's enough of a variance in casting, finishing and installing that the very top edge of the pan can sit just proud of the case causing the belt to rub just slightly when at top speed.

this is a known issue.
Interesting. That being the case, the bike could have been shipped with a pan with the variance? Or do they take measures @ Piaggio to dremel them down after installation?

If so, couldn't I just do that myself?
Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:31:54 +0000

Enthusiast
Vespa GTS 300
Joined: Sat, 07 Jan 2023 20:40:46 +0000
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Location: SoCal
 
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Wed, 20 Sep 2023 18:31:54 +0000 quote
Motovista wrote:
You seem to be under the impression that dealers set terms and conditions for the warranty. The manufacturer sets the terms of the warranty, and approves or denies warranty claims. NHTSA recalls are not warranty work. They are done regardless, as long as the bike runs and the recall hasn't been done before. So if someone has a fuel pump replaced under a recall, that has nothing to do with the factory warranty.
Here's what is printed in page 92 of the owner's manual for the HPE, and probably in every owner's manual printed. You can decide for yourself what you think it means:

"IT IS ALSO RECOMMENDED THAT ORIGINAL PIAGGIO SPARE PARTS BE
USED, AS THESE ARE THE ONLY ONES OFFERING YOU THE SAME QUALITY
GUARANTEE AS THOSE INITIALLY FITTED ON THE VEHICLE. IT SHOULD BE
REMEMBERED THAT USING NON-ORIGINAL SPARE PARTS CAUSES YOUR
WARRANTY RIGHTS TO EXPIRE."
I agree with you regarding the wording.

That said, I would have thought that would apply to a Malossi or other companies aftermarket part only, as the pan with the site glass pan is a Piaggio part (albeit modified) that came in a Piaggio box (not that the box matters).
I could see Piaggio denying a claim if the site glass leaked or fell out as the cause of a failure.
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