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@jerry619 avatar
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Caio! I'm new to the group.

I live in San Diego and have been shopping for a used Vespa, private and dealers for about 6 months.

I'm finding that the prices for a Vespa LX 150 much higher than an insurance company will cover it for.

Example: 2011 LXV 150 ie, 10k miles for sale in the area. It's in decent shape, been stored outside, dropped on both sides.

Insurance company will cover for only $1775 based on JD Power Value. Meanwhile asking price is $3850.

Initially I just thought people were way overpricing, but several at those elevated prices have sold quickly.

I have perfect during record. One claim for a hit and run on my 4Runner in the past year. I've checked with a 1/2 dozen companies. Have my M1 endorsement and CMSP training.

What gives?
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Prices on motorcycles/scooters are stupidly expensive right now. I watch prices and they usually drop during the winter in most areas, but not this year. Sellers are asking but it most cases, not getting the asking prices, content with leaving the adds up for months. My only advice would be to wait for something more reasonable to come up, be willing to travel and don't be afraid to ask if they are open to an offer. I have found that the JD prices seem to be on the low side and a bit behind the times. KBB is a little more realistic with the number between the trade in and dealer price. Unfortunately, many sellers will quote the higher price, which is what a dealership would be asking as actually value.
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The value of any thing is what buyer is willing to pay for it. The value of items to a seller is what they are willing to sell it for. A fair value is often somewhere between the high and low. In my searches for scooters that I could READILY sell and not lose any or only a little is often very near where insurances will cover and I would purchase. YEMV I have traveled over a thousand miles to inspect a scoot that interests me, and I bring cash.
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You can always do a "agreed value" thru your insurance. It kinda works like gap insurance if that makes sense. You'll pay a bit more but the piece of mind is worth it if your vehicle is rare, older, exotic or mint.
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Most all big insures in Socal pay ACV, actual cash value if your car or motorbike gets totaled or stolen.

I've had 1 totaled car and 2 on stolen motorcycles over the years,
1 from AAA, 1 from 20th Century (now absorbed by Allstate) and once by State Farm.
In the end I have gotten fair market value on all of them.

If you get a low ball ACV offer from an insurance company you
can politely negotiate but you need documentation such as, Autotrader, Cycle trader, Craigslit, ect., quotes on comparable vehicles that are going for higher prices.
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Also $4000 range can get you a clean newer Primavera or Sprint if you bid your time
Here's one in Seal Beach
Here's one in Seal Beach
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Why won't this Vespa sell

Now you can't find a GTS 250 for less than $3,500.
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I have bought, fixed up and sold many motorcycles and scooters. Right now is the worst time to buy as Spring is here or coming up depending on where you are. Secondly, there are a few out there that get back money from the IRS that are willing to throw this at a future scooter.
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This is very helpful. Thank you!
sc00ter wrote:
You can always do a "agreed value" thru your insurance. It kinda works like gap insurance if that makes sense. You'll pay a bit more but the piece of mind is worth it if your vehicle is rare, older, exotic or mint.
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Thank you for sharing your expeirence. I have tried that, but the asking prices have been more than they are willing to negotiate on.

I probably need to nogitate with a seller first, then go back to the insurance company and see if they agree. Tricky to do in a fast moving cash only scenario.
CaliforniaCruising wrote:
If you get a low ball ACV offer from an insurance company you
can politely negotiate but you need documentation such as, Autotrader, Cycle trader, Craigslit, ect., quotes on comparable vehicles that are going for higher prices.
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Jerry, I have essentially the same Vespa with half the miles, in a different market. I know San Diego is hot but I think $3850 for a less-than-pristine LX150 over 10 years old is crazy! There has to be something better out there.
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^^^

this.

that ask is wayyy too much.

for a mint one, sure. but one that's banged up? Nah. pass.
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Yes, I've been watching this one. This is one of the ones I requested and insurance quote on and it was valued at $2345.
CaliforniaCruising wrote:
Also $4000 range can get you a clean newer Primavera or Sprint if you bid your time
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I agree. I am very patient so I'll just keep waiting.
Jimjar wrote:
Jerry, I have essentially the same Vespa with half the miles, in a different market. I know San Diego is hot but I think $3850 for a less-than-pristine LX150 over 10 years old is crazy! There has to be something better out there.
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As you said, you have been looking for six months in your area, so by now you know what a reasonable price would be. Also bear in mind what hidden costs may come up soon. A machine that has been gone thru by a reputable shop should be worth more than a scoot that is going to need an immediate investment, such as tires, belt, rollers, etc... Location plays into price as well, so getting away from the coast may drop the price some, but I don't live there, so I'm not sure. Obviously, anything near a large city demands more money. The only other advice I may give is to contact the different sellers and open up some kind of dialog. Many selling sites will list how long the item has been up for sale. Occasionally, after weeks or months of trying to sell, the owner may be very willing to let the scoot go at 10% less or more rather than deal with anymore guff from rude people. But most will be willing to just let it linger on sites like FB Marketplace to try to recoup every last penny. You never know unless you ask. Be respectful and courteous - again, obvious but it works both ways for me. Example: I recently sold a motorcycle to a fairly new rider. He had just completed a MSF course some weeks before. You could not have met a nicer guy. He came over, looked at the bike and we made a deal. The problem was is that he had come over 100 miles to look at it and was a little nervous about riding it back. He was going to follow his buddy's car that they both came in when I offered him a safer solution - I proposed renting a small trailer the next day, loading it up, driving it to his house behind my small truck and dropping it off. I was just looking for him to contribute towards the expense. He was happy to pay for the gas, the rental fee as well as a number for my time. I agreed on the expenses, but nothing for my time because I was treated with respect and did not mind helping out a new rider. Good luck on you search, it can be frustrating, but you will find the right one for you.
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Thanks for the good advice. I have avoided contacting any sellers yet until I figured out the whole insurance thing.

I'm starting to rethink they idea that a scooter could be a much more affordable way to get to and from work. ROFL emoticon Lessons learned.
Tierney wrote:
Good luck on you search, it can be frustrating, but you will find the right one for you.
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You are welcome. I know this is a Vespa site, but there other brands/models out there to consider: the Honda PCX 150, the Yamaha Smax 150, Kymco, the Piaggio Liberty, etc..... You may be surprised how much you like them once you get a chance to sit on one and take a spin. But if it a Vespa that you want, than that's exactly what you should get.
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Jerry619 wrote:
I'm starting to rethink they idea that a scooter could be a much more affordable way to get to and from work. ROFL emoticon Lessons learned.
ROFL emoticon
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I am considering the Fly 150 as it's the same drivetrain. Vespa is my first choice as it's so iconic and what I'm familiar with, but it has to be affordable.

The search continues.
Tierney wrote:
...but there other brands/models out there to consider...
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Nothing wrong with the Fly...
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A good deal never seems to show up when you want one but if you are patient and keep looking something will turn up.

Probably right after you decide you can't wait anymore and spend too much money on something else...and that's when you buy another one!
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Jerry619 wrote:
I am considering the Fly 150 as it's the same drivetrain. Vespa is my first choice as it's so iconic and what I'm familiar with, but it has to be affordable.

The search continues.
define affordable.

there's plenty of ET's and LX's running around out there that are a little long in the tooth but have plenty of life left in them for like 1/2 of what that LXV was.

I understand that if you want a vespa, it has to be a vespa. but be ready to pay the premium. if cosmetics don't particularly bother you, there's deals to be had, though.

however, you're on the wrong side of the tide. it's a seller's market right now with longer sunny days and the weather getting warmer. also in SD you're gonna pay the sunshine AND the beach tax. expand your search to 2~300mi and I'll bet you'll find more selection and better prices.
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Jerry619 wrote:
I am considering the Fly 150 as it's the same drivetrain. Vespa is my first choice as it's so iconic and what I'm familiar with, but it has to be affordable.

The search continues.
Honestly, there's a pretty good likelihood of dropping your first bike in a silly clumsy accident mistake that more-experienced-you might not make... nothing wrong with doing the first season or two on the fly and then getting the Vespa once you're out of your beginner phase.
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It's a 150 and it says the paper is up to date.
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This is the world we live in. Everything cost's more The dealer will give you this then up the price by 2 Grand when they go to sell. We get what we vote for and in Today's economy this is the world we live in. Buy used and you get a fair price just stay away from a dealer. I watch Market Place all the time even though I am not in need of a new bike used is the way to go. You may have to travel but life is a adventure just don't go through Chicago the traffic sucks
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Prices on ALL motor vehicles are WAY up right now. There was a reason for that in the recent past. We had a major vehicle shortage, and when demand exceeds supply, prices go up. I did not buy a vehicle of any kind during that time, I have plenty (actually too many) right now, so I didn't actually NEED one. I certainly wouldn't pay those crazy prices for something just because I "wanted" it. I'm not rich. Also, scooters and motorcycles are strictly recreational things for me, so I will never have a real NEED for them, just a desire for them. Unfortunately, even though the shortage is over, sellers have become addicted to the artificially inflated prices they were once able to get, and think they can still get them.

Back during the past 3 years or so, people paid insane prices for new and newer used vehicles, and financed them. Then the value of those vehicles dropped like crazy, and people who bought them now owe way more on them than they will ever be worth. The payments were so high that many defaulted on their loans, leaving banks and finance companies with vehicles they are going to lose a fortune on.

Is your issue the actual price of a used Vespa, or the fact that the insurance company won't cover it for what you paid for it? There has been an issue with that for a long time, way before the vehicle shortage and the dealer markups and "market adjustments" that came with it. It became necessary to buy "gap" insurance to cover the difference between what a vehicle was actually worth, and what was owed on it.

So there are actually two problems here. People, both dealers and private sellers, are selling or trying to sell vehicles for way more than they are actually worth. And insurance companies typically do exactly the opposite. They tend to place the value of a vehicle at less than it is actually worth.


I have paid enough for full coverage insurance in my life to have paid cash for my house. That's because when I was younger, I financed so many vehicles, both new and used. And when you finance something, you have no choice but to pay full coverage insurance on it. The last vehicle I financed was in 1997, it was a motorcycle, and it had a five year loan on it. I got sick of paying all that interest and full coverage insurance, paid it off in under two years, and immediately dropped the full coverage insurance. I have bought several vehicles since then, both new and used, but only three of them were new. They were all well under $8000, except for one car that I paid $7800 for back in 2015. It has paid for itself several times over. Most of those vehicles were scooters and motorcycles.

I never put full coverage insurance on any of them. Only the minimum liability that my state requires. By doing that, I have saved an absolute fortune. I could afford to lose a vehicle, maybe even two or three, and still come out ahead of what it would have cost me for full coverage. Back in 2013, I bought a new motorcycle. MSRP was $4999, OTD price, including delivery from 100 miles away, was $5999. The manufacturer had a zero interest rate plan, so I decided to finance it. I called my insurance company and had full coverage insurance put on it. I almost had a heart attack when I got the bill. Just over $600 for one year. I IMMEDIATELY paid off the loan and canceled the full coverage insurance and replaced it with liability only. That dropped it down to under $80 a year. $520 less than full coverage.


I will never put full coverage on any vehicle ever again. Any vehicle that needs full coverage insurance would be well out of my price range anyway. I would not pay $3850 for a 2011 LXV 150 ie, but if I did buy a vehicle for around that price, I would pay cash, and I certainly wouldn't put full coverage insurance on it. On the other hand, I don't use scooters and motorcycles for things that would require them to be ridden or parked in places where they are likely to be stolen or vandalized. I have a beater car for that.

I don't have an answer to the insane prices people are trying to sell vehicles for, other than I'm pretty sure prices are going to come back down in the not too distant future, especially on vehicles like scooters and motorcycles, which are considered non essential toys in the U.S. I'd wait and keep looking. But if you do decide to overpay for a scooter, I would definitely recommend against full coverage insurance, so you don't get ripped off twice. I currently have seven bikes, two scooters and five motorcycles. My yearly insurance cost for all of them together is under $800.
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My broker and I adjust the insured value of all my vehicles every year.
The insurer then bases the annual premium on that value.
On occasion, I was asked to justify a value for my older R80 BMW's
which I did by getting written trade-in offers from the dealer.
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Calcruising has it right.

In the USA, if you have ACV "Actual Cash Value" full coverage
the company owes you the fair market value. Most just use
the "Blue Type" books as a guide. They do a market test and
also accept any input you have that documents a higher value.

Contrary to most opinions, you routinely get more from a insurance
company than selling it yourself. Reason, they can not walk away
from the deal - they have to settle. Where as, a buyer may
not like your asking price. You sometimes accept less because
you want to sell it.

Fud is also on to something. Many of my Harley D insurance
customers go with "Stated Value" because they have a huge
amount of accessories.

Insurance Companies get the "Cheap" reputation because they
will low negotiate on bodily injury settlements. If your dead,
it is simple. If you are injured, it can be difficult to determine
who is really hurt long range and who is milking a small Bo Boo.

Even dead people from accidents are worth different amounts based
on prior income, life expectancy, surviving dependents. I use
to do this as a casualty insurance adjuster. Our adverse medical
doctor was called "No Pain McCain" when he did the adverse medical
exam for pending court cases.

So, if your hurt by an at fault party - get a good lawyer. If your
scoot is totalled, just do some research - they will listen.

My wife totalled her Honda CRV - I could not believe how much they
gave me for that car. Result of the run away used car market.

Bob Copeland
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You could also go with an insurance provider like Hagerty and set the payout value. I have some older vehicles that are worth more than the NADA or KBB by thousands. I have a policy with them for the value i want from them if they are ever totaled. I have the same deductible, and coverage with the same cost as regular car insurance. I have two vehicles and 4 motorcycles covered under them. You can do a quick quote online and see what it costs.
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MechanicalMayhem wrote:
You could also go with an insurance provider like Hagerty and set the payout value. I have some older vehicles that are worth more than the NADA or KBB by thousands. I have a policy with them for the value i want from them if they are ever totaled. I have the same deductible, and coverage with the same cost as regular car insurance. I have two vehicles and 4 motorcycles covered under them. You can do a quick quote online and see what it costs.
Hagerty is great. I have two of my cars and several bikes with them. It can be a more affordable option for specialty vehicles or if you're dead set on recouping the value of your vehicle with no muss or fuss.

One thing to keep in mind, is that at least for me, the annual mileage allowance is quite low. The whole less time on the road gives less chance of damage deal and all.

So if you're looking to commute with it, use it as a primary vehicle or stack up the miles another carrier might be a better choice.
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Hagerty is a good solution. I may be wrong, but I thought Hagerty
was for collector cars that are not regularly driven. My information
on Hagerty may be out of date.

You know, the guys who trailer their vintage porsche to car
shows and drive it under 200 miles a year.

The only Hagerty I sell in my insurance agency are collector
cars for stated value. But, maybe you can pay a differrent
premium for a daily driver.

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Bob Copeland wrote:
Hagerty is a good solution. I may be wrong, but I thought Hagerty
was for collector cars that are not regularly driven. My information
on Hagerty may be out of date.

You know, the guys who trailer their vintage porsche to car
shows and drive it under 200 miles a year.

The only Hagerty I sell in my insurance agency are collector
cars for stated value. But, maybe you can pay a differrent
premium for a daily driver.

Bob Copeland
They do everything now. Cars, motorcycles, scooters, etc. I started using them with the 2 vehicles i have that are 22 and 20 years old. I do not have classic registration on them either. Regular insurance would pay out only book value and would set the vehicle loss limit using that at 80%. I went through Hagerty and put a set value on the vehicles using current market values. I used the same deductibles and coverages and saw zero increase in premiums. Vespas in the 2000-2015 have seen a huge uptick in price and to offset that you could set a loss value for it. The cost may be a tick higher on a vespa than normal insurance but if you are financing you won't be liable if its totaled or stolen for the amount you paid. Kind of like a gap coverage.
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Bob Copeland wrote:
Hagerty is a good solution. I may be wrong, but I thought Hagerty
was for collector cars that are not regularly driven. My information
on Hagerty may be out of date.

You know, the guys who trailer their vintage porsche to car
shows and drive it under 200 miles a year.

The only Hagerty I sell in my insurance agency are collector
cars for stated value. But, maybe you can pay a differrent
premium for a daily driver.

Bob Copeland
they did stipulate that I needed to have a daily driver, which NBD because I do, and I would've insured that with them but they couldn't beat the PLPD coverage I had on the runaround.

honestly, they've been super cool with me. the mileage limit on my 911 is quite low, and I wanted to go up to laguna seca for the Rennsport Reunion. that was about a 600mi round trip, so I called my agent and told him what I wanted to do and the only thing he asked was if I was taking it on the track!

I'm not saying this is the only ticket in town, but an avenue to explore if so inclined.
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greasy125,

Your agent gave you correct information. The Hagerty collector
auto policies are priced for vehicles not being regularly driven.
You could take your collector car and drive it across the nation.
No problem. You are just not suppose to be driving it everyday.

That is also why, I think, a Hagerty Auto Policy with every day driven
longer miles may not be as competitive as your other companies.
They are dirt cheap for collector cars.

I use to get a chuckle out of a fellow in my neighborhood who had
Mn State antique plates on his car and drove it everyday. My
State of Minnesota is extremely big on consumer protection. Even
if you drove a vehicle beyond what it is priced for, they could never
turn down claims. They might cancel you.

Bob Copeland
@californiacruising avatar
UTC

Addicted
2015 Sprint 150, 2018 GTS 300
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@californiacruising avatar
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Joined: UTC
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Location: SoCal
UTC quote
CaliforniaCruising wrote:
Also $4000 range can get you a clean newer Primavera or Sprint if you bid your time
Here's a couple more,
buy right and you won't have to worry about ACV if the machine gets stolen or totaled
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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@bob_copeland avatar
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2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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Ossessionato
@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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Posts: 3603
Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Calcruising,

They seem to be asking gold for those used Vespas.

Bob Copeland
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Addicted
2015 Sprint 150, 2018 GTS 300
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Addicted
@californiacruising avatar
2015 Sprint 150, 2018 GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 894
Location: SoCal
UTC quote
Bob Copeland wrote:
Calcruising,

They seem to be asking gold for those used Vespas.

Bob Copeland
Yeah and prices are down since last winter and summer before.

I got 4k in winter for a 2018 Primavera 150, really nice shape with 2400 miles
and 9k for a Beautiful 2018 Kawasaki Z900RS with 5400 miles,
both parties had to work around rain storms for pick up

The Sprint and Primavera 150cc are fast, fun capable machines
but for me, it's worth paying an extra couple grand for a late model GTS 300, these bigger toys can handle steep hills, 2 up, at speed and are also great back up (and go to) city transportation nearly 12 months a year
OP
@jerry619 avatar
UTC

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LX 150
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Posts: 13
Location: San Diego, California
 
Member
@jerry619 avatar
LX 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 13
Location: San Diego, California
UTC quote
Thanks to everyone for the overwhelming support on this thread as it has helped tremendously.

Insurance

Based on the advice received here, I spoke in person with my current insurance agent. The end result, he doesn't like to write policies for m/c. He did agree to a quote for "fair market value", but the cost was elevated.

So I called a friend who is an agent for another company and got a quote for all of my insurance needs. His quote gives me "fair market value" on a scooter and saves me several hundred dollars a year over my current insurance company.

Purchasing
There was a great deal of good advice on finding a scooter as well. I circled back to two close friends who work with Piaggio. One is a Vespa-trained mechanic here in SoCal, the other works in sales at a Vespa dealership in Tuscany. I am a trained auto mechanic so they both are confident I can handle most any mechanical work needed.

This is what they have recommended to me:

Purpose
Commute to my photography studio 17 miles across the heart of San Diego without using the freeway. It's a financial need as COVID wiped out our previous business so we are starting over. My 4Runner is killing me on fuel costs and my wife needs it to get to her job which is much closer.

Vespa Years/Models $1000-$2000
1. Vespa LX 150 2010-2012 fuel injected Leader motor
2. Vespa LX 150 2006-2009 carburated version Leader motor

Piaggio Years/Models $1000 or less
1. Fly 150 2011-2012 fuel injected Leader motor
2. Fly 150 2006-2009 carburated version Leader motor

Priorities
Clean title
Good VIN, no salvage
Current registration or non-operational status (no past registration fees)
Has both keys
Will start cold and run
No structural damage
No significant rust
Rides well
Good brakes
Fork bearings turn freely
Wheels rotate freely
Clean oil
Good battery
Cosmetic imperfections I can live with

Be prepared to fix/replace at a lower purchase price
Tires
Vacuum hoses
Fuel lines
Battery
Drive belt
Carborator clean
Flush brake fluid
Fork bearing grease
Wheel bearing grease

So this will be my goal, which I realize will take time and patience. It's all my budget allows currently so until then I'll be riding the San Diego Trolley and Bus.

Thanks again for all the help!!
@vintagescooterdude avatar
UTC

Hooked
2006 GT200 2009 Genuine Stella
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Posts: 279
Location: Chandler, AZ
 
Hooked
@vintagescooterdude avatar
2006 GT200 2009 Genuine Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 279
Location: Chandler, AZ
UTC quote
I have two vintage vehicles (one car, one truck) insured with Hagerty. They are covered for a predetermined amount, not "market value" which can be anything an insurance company wants it to be. There is no mileage limit, but there are a lot of restrictions. They have to be kept in a garage, they can only be driven for recreational purposes, they cannot be used for commuting, going to work, school, or the grocery store. They are considered collector/hobby vehicles. You must also have another vehicle that serves as a transportation vehicle, and it has to be a car/truck. You can't use a scooter/motorcycle as a transportation vehicle.
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