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A Royal Enfield Interceptor 650 costs about £6500. 47 Horse Power and 105 mph top speed.

Motorcycles, especially Moto Guzzi's are so much better for the same money.
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Old Warrior wrote:
Why choose? Have both for different types of riding. Love riding my Vespa the four miles to work but wouldn't think about it for the 300 mile round trip to see the kids.
Yup. I have two Vespe and a handful of motorcycles.
You can tell the commandements were written by someone (or something, rather) that can't say the same.

Daily commuting can take you on the highways where having extra power available in case of emergency is both practical and safer. Maintenance can definitely be cheaper on a motorcycle, especially when you think about how long the tires and belts last on a motorcycle vs a Vespa. Etc.

You can go through life with a swiss army knife in your pocket and it can be good enough... or you can have the right tool for every job. Sometimes the Vespa is the right tool for the job, sometimes there are better options.
SteelBytes wrote:
And a Vespa can easily carry a case of beer between your feet. Try that on a motorcycle
Not sure that's the right argument to pick... My GS can literally carry 115 liters of beer. One case is a cute start though
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I'll make a bet that the people who are the first to defend the Italian brand are those who have never owned a motorcycle.

The BMW will carry 6 x 6 packs of beer. It would be helpful if I actually drank it.

Bud Light anyone ?
⚠️ Last edited by Bill Dog on UTC; edited 1 time
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kz1000ST wrote:
No. Buying a Vespa at any displacement is a "Personal" expression like buying a Harley. A Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager goes for $20k, a similar Harley for $30k.
Exactly. You like what you like. Logic sometimes has less to do with it.
Even Harley owners have said to me when MC shopping "go Japanese. Not worth it, I just happen to love Harleys."

Same goes for Vespas. I love mine but can't in good conscience recommend a new one to anyone asking. There's better value in MC's.
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SteelBytes wrote:
And a Vespa can easily carry a case of beer between your feet. Try that on a motorcycle
What a sales pitch!

"For an extra $2,000 carry beer between your feet"
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Nancy80 wrote:
Makes perfect sense.

Examples (in Canada)
Honda Rebel 300 $6,249
Vespa GTS300 $8,295
Over $2,000 more excluding PDI etc.

A Royal Enfield Meteor $6,799
More power at 350 cc's and still $1,500 cheaper.

Similarly for the Classic at $6,229. Still a 350 and over $2,000 cheaper.

These are comparable in quality, if not better. Especially the Honda. RE has improved immensely the past few years.

So, again Piaggio is making a hefty profit margin. There is nothing wrong with that but many MC's are a better buy.

For these reasons I'd consider a new MC but not new Vespa.

Still, I love my Vespa.
Exactly that - the price difference is what swayed me towards a Royal Enfield HNTR 350.

It is less powerful as already pointed out (being air cooled). That said, a 13l tank and 100mpg gives it a very good range. I'll report on real world MPG when I get it next week (as well as after the 300 mile break in period).

A GTS300 would have cost about £1200-1500 less last year (there were offers). I certainly might have got one if the prices hadn't hiked so much - I do love Vespas after-all! 🛵
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Nancy80 wrote:
What a sales pitch!

"For an extra $2,000 carry beer between your feet"
Or in your belly. 😂
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I'm glad I don't have to choose between one or the other. I have everything from a 50cc Puch pedal moped to an H-D 1200 Sportster. I have a Rebel 250, I've owned 4 of them, I bought a brand new 1985 (first year model), then 2 used ones, and a brand new 2016 (last year model), which I'm keeping. I also have a Genuine Stella, which is basically a Vespa PX150. 2 stroke manual transmission.

I have seven bikes altogether. All are registered, insured, and ready to ride. All of them are carbureted. Registrations are between $20-$35 a year, and insurance for all seven of them is about $650 a year.

At 64, I will probably not be buying any more bikes. There are no longer any new bikes out there that I want, if I ever do buy another one, it will be used, and I would have to get rid of something to make room for it, not something I really want to do. I feel like I finally have the perfect collection.
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VintageScooterDude wrote:
I also have a Genuine Stella, which is basically a Vespa PX150. 2 stroke manual transmission.
Never heard of a Stella. Just looked it up. Great looking wheels. I'd love a manual scooter.
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UTC quote
[quote="Bob Copeland"I kind of like all two wheelers. I only disliked the Harley Sportster because it had, for me, crappy handling characteristics.
[/quote]

Harleys were never about the handling, it was and is about the ride, the low down torque, and the sound. If you want something that handles with a Sporty engine - get a Buell. Just not the Buell blast - I don't know who came up with that stupidity. Facepalm emoticon
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VintageScooterDude wrote:
I'm glad I don't have to choose between one or the other. I have everything from a 50cc Puch pedal moped to an H-D 1200 Sportster. I have a Rebel 250, I've owned 4 of them, I bought a brand new 1985 (first year model), then 2 used ones, and a brand new 2016 (last year model), which I'm keeping. I also have a Genuine Stella, which is basically a Vespa PX150. 2 stroke manual transmission.

I have seven bikes altogether. All are registered, insured, and ready to ride. All of them are carbureted. Registrations are between $20-$35 a year, and insurance for all seven of them is about $650 a year.

At 64, I will probably not be buying any more bikes. There are no longer any new bikes out there that I want, if I ever do buy another one, it will be used, and I would have to get rid of something to make room for it, not something I really want to do. I feel like I finally have the perfect collection.
You pretty much have it all covered there VSD.
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UTC quote
Nancy80 wrote:
(...)
So, again Piaggio is making a hefty profit margin. There is nothing wrong with that but many MC's are a better buy.

For these reasons I'd consider a new MC but not new Vespa.

Still, I love my Vespa.
Here in Belgium:
Vespa GTS Super 300: 7099€
Vespa GTS Supersport 300: 7299€
Vespa GTS Supertech 300: 7499€
Beverly 300: 5599€
Beverly 300 S: 5699€
Beverly 400: 6599€
Beverly 400 S: 6699€

So you can have a BV400S and still save 400€ compared to a GTS Super 300.

The Vespa is Piaggio's moneymaker. Some 80% of all Piaggio sales in Belgium are Vespa's.
They ask premium prices for it and the market is willing to pay.
As you say: nothing wrong with that.

Is it the best value for money?
No.
But for many there is boring reason, and there is joy. Also nothing wrong with that.
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PeterCC wrote:
Here in Belgium:
Vespa GTS Super 300: 7099€
Vespa GTS Supersport 300: 7299€
Vespa GTS Supertech 300: 7499€
Beverly 300: 5599€
Beverly 300 S: 5699€
Beverly 400: 6599€
Beverly 400 S: 6699€
Great selection of scooters!!
PeterCC wrote:
The Vespa is Piaggio's moneymaker. Some 80% of all Piaggio sales in Belgium are Vespa's.
They ask premium prices for it and the market is willing to pay.
As you say: nothing wrong with that.
Bingo. I think the term is "cash cow". Who wouldn't want huge profit margin?
PeterCC wrote:
Is it the best value for money?
No.
But for many there is boring reason, and there is joy. Also nothing wrong with that.
Well said. I'll say it again, I love mine. But the premium price for a new one is too much.
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UTC quote
Nancy80 wrote:
I'll say it again
And again, and again, and again…..
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WLeuthold wrote:
And again, and again, and again…..
I love my Vespa!
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SteelBytes wrote:
And a Vespa can easily carry a case of beer between your feet. Try that on a motorcycle
With a motorcycle, you drink the case of beer before getting on the bike.
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UTC quote
Nancy80 wrote:
I love my Vespa!
OK.

You love your Vespa but tell everyone to buy a motorcycle instead of a new Vespa just because it is cheaper.

So please, go ahead and buy a new motorcycle, that you probably won't love, and let us all know how that works out for you.

I will gladly pay the premium for something I will love.

Bill
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WLeuthold wrote:
OK.
You love your Vespa but tell everyone to buy a motorcycle instead of a new Vespa just because it is cheaper.
I didn't tell anyone to do anything. And I said I couldn't personally justify paying thousands more for a brand new one that goes towards a gross profit. Not because a MC is cheaper.

I literally WANT to buy a brand new Vespa but can't justify it. It's not because of the price it's because it isn't for better quality.
WLeuthold wrote:
So please, go ahead and buy a new motorcycle, that you probably won't love, and let us all know how that works out for you.
I may not enjoy it quite as much or may enjoy it more, especially when a better buy from a non emotional point of view.
WLeuthold wrote:
I will gladly pay the premium for something I will love.
The premium you're happy to pay is from emotion. Fair enough. That counts. But that premium payment isn't for premium quality. It's towards a big gross profit margin. A "cash cow".

Your money your choice.

Still love my Vespa.
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Nancy, you're up against owners who no matter how over priced and flawed the product can be they will blindly sing its praises because rarely they have tried the alternative.

And that's OK. It's a Green Eggs and Ham way of thinking.

Motorcycles take so much more application to ride but because of that they are so much more rewarding and satisfying to own.

In general they have more power, better handling, are more capable of greater distances while carrying more luggage so for me they are better but in the same way that 6 gears are better than 5, if that makes sense.

I've never claimed to love any PTW but I have to admit that riding the Moto Guzzi is a very different experience compared to the BMW so it may just be down to it being Italian.
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Get Both...
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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Bill Dog wrote:
Motorcycles take so much more application to ride but because of that they are so much more rewarding and satisfying to own.

In general they have more power, better handling, are more capable of greater distances while carrying more luggage so for me they are better but in the same way that 6 gears are better than 5, if that makes sense.


Yeah but no curry hook.
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Bill Dog wrote:
Nancy, you're up against owners who no matter how over priced and flawed the product can be they will blindly sing its praises because rarely they have tried the alternative.

And that's OK. It's a Green Eggs and Ham way of thinking.

Motorcycles take so much more application to ride but because of that they are so much more rewarding and satisfying to own.

In general they have more power, better handling, are more capable of greater distances while carrying more luggage so for me they are better but in the same way that 6 gears are better than 5, if that makes sense.

I've never claimed to love any PTW but I have to admit that riding the Moto Guzzi is a very different experience compared to the BMW so it may just be down to it being Italian.
They can also be lighter weight and more economical while doing all that.

Look at a Honda CB300 vs the Vespa GTS 300.

Weight: 158 kg Vespa vs 153 kg Honda
Power: 24 hp 22 Nm Vespa, vs 24 hp 25 Nm Honda
Carrying capacity: underseat + topcase for Vespa, 3 hard case luggage pieces, plus tank bag

I love my Vespa GTS, but my 150cc was a better scooter, and Honda makes the better small bike.

I'm totally ok with that, because I like the Vespa. But I'm also not going to be delusional and tell myself the Vespa is better just to appease my ego because that's the one I own lol
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adri wrote:
But I'm also not going to be delusional and tell myself the Vespa is better just to appease my ego because that's the one I own lol
Exactly my point. The only reason I like it as much as I do is its look. It certainly isn't better in any other way.
But looks do count.

Except the hook as Znomit cleverly pointed out. Worth another $2,000 easily.
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Saw what you did there.
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giallo wrote:
Riding motorcycles and scooters is more expensive than having a car
How do you figure?
That has not been my experience at all.
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chipshot wrote:
How do you figure?
That has not been my experience at all.
A motorcycle or scooter requires more frequent maintenance. Just think about tires that last potentially only a season versus car tires that last for 50k miles or more. The riding gear needed is another expense, so are chains, belts etc.

There are several threads on car vs scooter expenses if you are interested.

I
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giallo wrote:
A motorcycle or scooter requires more frequent maintenance. Just think about tires that last potentially only a season versus car tires that last for 50k miles or more. The riding gear needed is another expense, so are chains, belts etc.

There are several threads on car vs scooter expenses if you are interested.

I
Well - my car isn't known for long maintenance intervals, but it's 10,000 miles between service intervals. 5 years ownership; 70,000 miles. Rough figures below.

Services x7 (alternating at £200, and £500 at current prices) = £2300.
Tyres (3 sets, only just done) = £1050.
Brakes (1 full set, only just done) = £250.
Wipers (3 sets, only just done) = £75
Total maintenance: £3675.

Annual road tax: £135 x 5 = £675.
Insurance: £375 x 5 = £1875.
Standing cost: £2550.

Average MPG over this period = 55mpg (petrol).
Fuel: £8268 at current prices.

So, to run my car, it costs 20.7 pence per mile (fuel being the biggest proportion of that).

That doesn't include the price of the vehicle itself - can't calculate that yet as it's not due to go to the crusher any time soon.

Generally, the standing cost (ie cost of having, but not using the vehicle) will be lower with a bike (lower tax and insurance, at least for me & my bike).

Suppose if a bike has significantly better fuel consumption, and the maintenance/tax/insurance is on par - it would cost less to run (they also cost less to buy, after all).

BUT - what about those things you can't transport or do on a bike? I've had a washing machine, an IKEA sofa, a digital upright piano, and so much more in the back of my car. You may end up paying for transport in other ways if you only have a bike.

I'm sure I've missed something, but it's Sunday! 😇
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chipshot wrote:
How do you figure?
That has not been my experience at all.
In our situation scooters save us money, 3 licensed drivers with 2 cars and 2 scooters.

Scooters make great toys but also a lot cheaper backup transportation than having a car for every driver in the household.
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Tierney wrote:
The 300 Vespa is a perfect capable touring scooter. If you are determined enough, you can tour with less.
I had planned a 2,000 mile 'tour' for the first of May. Yesterday I did about 150 in 30-40 mph wind and decided to take the Spyder for my trip. Yes, the scooter would do the miles without a complaint. My 79 year old back and legs, however, were not happy after the 150! AND I'll be sleeping on the ground for several of the 9 nights! I had even purchased a small tent that would fit in the pet carrier and had all the gear attachment figured out. Oh well, riding is what it all about anyway.....
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kz1000ST wrote:
No. Buying a Vespa at any displacement is a "Personal" expression like buying a Harley. A Kawasaki Vulcan Voyager goes for $20k, a similar Harley for $30k.
Only $30?????

I don't think Harley even has a model that can be brought home for under $20,000 anymore. Our local HD dealer has a couple of those new Sportsters on the floor, and although the 'cheaper' of the two has an MSRP of a bit over $16,000, the tag on the handlebar says $19,995, and the other, $21,995.

Anyway, for what it's worth, I agree with you about a Vespa purchase being a 'personal expression', at least mine was, though it wasn't bought new and was substantially less money than a new GTS 300 would have been, but still rather pricey.

As much as I love my 20' GTS300, I highly doubt that I would have coughed up 10G's for a new one.
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I don't get the debate. It is just supply vs demand economics. If you are willing to pay the price in North America for an Italian manufactured product then Vespa is going to sell them to you. You can have the same argument with many imported products especially when they cross into fashion and lifestyle markets. Vintage Vespas sell for huge amounts because it is a famous brand built up over decades.
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johnymoore wrote:
I don't get the debate. It is just supply vs demand economics. If you are willing to pay the price in North America for an Italian manufactured product then Vespa is going to sell them to you. You can have the same argument with many imported products especially when they cross into fashion and lifestyle markets. Vintage Vespas sell for huge amounts because it is a famous brand built up over decades.
There is no debate about that. It was about better value for dollar and a motorcycle is the "winner" (by far).

How much you want to pay for anything above the logical aspect is up to the individual, of course.

It's just some people got upset about that.
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I like most all 2 wheelers, including bicycles.

A vespa being rudimentary is part of the attraction for me, I have learned a lot about motorbike mechanical theory from working on these machines.

Vespas are really comfortable and fun 2 up in the city,
lots of storage, though I never had a problem carrying a case of beer (cans) sandwiched between the tank and my upper torso on a sake rocket.

Another thing I like about the Vespa is it keeps me out of traffic court, it is really hard to putt on a fast motorcycle.

I don't think I'd pay 10k US OTD for a new Vespa but I'd buy a newer used one for a few grand less.

Also, don't think I'd ever buy a small displacement motorcycle, the quality goes way up on bigger cc motorcycles.
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UTC quote
That's simply not true. A Honda Monkey Bike is built as well as a Goldwing because it's a Honda, not because of its size.

Chinese and Indian bikes aren't finished off as well as Japanese bikes no matter what displacement they are.

Also you can ride a large capacity motorcycle at any speed you like. In fact it's probably easier to ride in town because you have to change gear less often.

Give me more CC's every time.

I'll grant you if the engine is tuned for performance high up in the rev range it can get a bit tiresome but a V Twin or a Boxer lay out in traffic is a blessing.
⚠️ Last edited by Bill Dog on UTC; edited 1 time
@kz1000st avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1891
Location: Hyde Park, New York
 
Molto Verboso
@kz1000st avatar
Dongfang 170cc, CF Moto Fashion 250
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1891
Location: Hyde Park, New York
UTC quote
True that. My 250 Nighthawk is put together as well as my 750 Kawasaki. Since it's a 360 degree parallel in the role of a smaller Triumph it runs around town just fine. If I had the ambition to find a back rack and trunk for it my 250 scooter would be in peril of departure since the Nighthawk is fairly highway capable as well. The smaller scooter would be just fine for short runs to fetch milk and eggs.
UTC

Hooked
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300; '21 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 114
Location: Oregon
 
Hooked
'06 GTS 250; '18 GTS 300; '21 Liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 114
Location: Oregon
UTC quote
The thread implies you get to pick one bike. In my case if I had to choose, I'd go GTS.

For me, most days I'm going to/from work or riding nearby for fun which == GTS. More fun, super practical, lets be honest, more style. Brilliant bike for anything local or even farther for the more eager scooterist.

I do have a large moto that carries more, goes farther, in more comfort than the wasp, it did not cost much more than my wasp. Most days it sits in the garage.

If you're asking if the same $6,000 on a lightly used Vespa can get you more carrying capacity, more speed, more distance on your generic imported moto then sure. You're correct. Go get a Strom or a KLR and a milk crate and some bungie cords. Check your soul at the garage door But, no offense, everyone's needs are different and I respect them all. Not gonna look at your KLR 2x though, you get one wave that's it.
@californiacruising avatar
UTC

Addicted
2015 Sprint 150, 2018 GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 894
Location: SoCal
 
Addicted
@californiacruising avatar
2015 Sprint 150, 2018 GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 894
Location: SoCal
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
That's simply not true. A Honda Monkey Bike is built as well as a Goldwing because it's a Honda, not because of its size.

Chinese and Indian bikes aren't finished off as well as Japanese bikes no matter what displacement they are.

Also you can ride a large capacity motorcycle at any speed you like. In fact it's probably easier to ride in town because you have to change gear less often.

Give me more CC's every time.

I'll grant you if the engine is tuned for performance high up in the rev range it can get a bit tiresome but a V Twin or a Boxer lay out in traffic is a blessing.
Respectfully disagree brother.
Look at that front end, electronic rider aids, dash, beefy adjustable upside down forks, rear suspension, wheels brakes, tire width, handle bars, triple clamps, rear suspension, aluminum frame (OK maybe not on this one but on CBR 600RR and CBR 1000RRs, fit finish and the machining of many other alloy parts are way above the lower CC bikes quality.
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@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20659
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20659
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
$2000 Extra for style.

$2000 for an entire 2003 Kawasaki KLV 1000 with a rack and panniers and a 180 mile range and no waves.

I'll take that.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20659
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20659
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
You were talking about the level of quality. Not the level of equipment.

Take a ride around to your local Kawasaki dealer and have a good look at a Z125 then look at a Z650RS.

The built quality is exactly the same because it's a Kawasaki.
UTC

Hooked
Vespa GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 224
Location: Canada
 
Hooked
Vespa GT200
Joined: UTC
Posts: 224
Location: Canada
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
$2000 Extra for style.
Exactly. Loving and paying much more for style is their prerogative and that is fine as long as any purchaser doesn't delude themselves or others into thinking otherwise.

Personally without additional quality I can't justify that much more just for style for a new one. Maybe $100, $200, $500 but THOUSANDS!

And now they charge more depending on color!!🤦‍♀️. Looks disingenuous.

And I am frustrated because I love my Vespa. A brand new one is out of the question for the reasons above.
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