Modern Vespa

Interesting as I've ridden Vespa GTS 300, Sports City 250, Honda CTX to the top of Pikes Peak which is another Fourteener and while the scooters all slowed down I was in no more danger of stalling in the corners than on the CTX in low gear. All of them would go considerably faster than 30 mph on the downhill. When we had the Burgman 400 I had it over 12,000' many times as we lived at 10,600' and to go almost anywhere we had to go over higher passes.

I've got it on Video.

Correction, GoPam has it on Video.

I'm pretty certain that I know what you had and I didn't and it's not talent.

I am not sure which Pikes Peak you went up, but the Pikes Peak I climbed and descended on my Yamaha Xmax300 was quite easy.

I never thought twice about the power, cornering or braking.

I rode with two friends, one on a BMW F850GS and the other on what was previously my Honda NC700X (manual)

I was able to keep up climbing and descending with no issues whatsoever.

I thought it was a great day of riding. Loved every minute.

Maybe the Suzuki Burgman is crap.

Bill

Nope, you're still missing it.

You'll kick yourself when you get it.

Doesn't the 2003 Burgy 400 have a carburetor? That might explain its anemic mountain abilities.

We have a Winner !

You're kind of arbitrarily missing out on the pleasures and adventure aspects of taking a Vespa (or any other large-ish highway-capable scooter, for that matter) out on a multi-day road trip.

I had a great time running my GTS 300 400 miles eastward to my hometown and back (in two days) last September, and it's not that I couldn't have ridden any one of our three relatively large motorcycles instead of the GTS, a Triumph Rocket 3, a Triumph 1200 Speedmaster, or a Royal Enfield Interceptor 650. I chose the Vespa, and wasn't at all disappointed in it's secondary highway performance on that trip.

I call shenanigans.

Unless it was a pre-'03 grey market import, all Burgie 400s sold Stateside had EFI.

Now the CVT might have been acting rubbish. They get a lot spunkier with a Malossi CVT kit.

A real proper motorcycle rider would have stopped halfway up and rejetted.

What's the longest distance you've gone or would recommend going WOT on a GTS 300 on a fast freeway?

When not riding 2 up been vetting mine out for safety and reliability on fast freeways (70-75+ mph +)

And riding 2 up have been testing it on a lot of really steep coastal roads and moderately fast sweeping canyon highways.
Other than having to replace a couple hose clamps no issues, a very solid machine.

I've ridden my GTS on our local Interstate highways only for relatively short distances, out of necessity, but don't normally ride on them with the Vespa.

For what it's worth, it's my opinion that a Vespa GTS is completely out of it's element when being hammered down a 70-80 mph interstate highway, though it might be pressed into doing so, and be marginally adequate at it, it's just not a comfortable thing to use it for.

I think the farthest I've ridden on I-90 in South Dakota is probably fifteen or twenty miles, and even then, I don't ride it at WOT unless dealing with an upgrade or headwind, where winding the throttle to the stop is necessary just to maintain a reasonably safe speed so as to not get run over by overtaking traffic.

I-90 near my area is a 75 mph four-lane interstate highway with traffic often moving at 80 mph. I will try to get my GTS to at least indicate 70-75 mph for my occasional short sprints on that road, but I know that my actual speed is more like 65-70 mph, so I pay very close attention to what's coming up behind me and respond accordingly if I think it's necessary.

The 'open road riding' I do on my GTS is almost exclusively done on paved secondary roadways with speed limits generally set from 55-65 mph, and unless pulling upgrades or dealing with headwinds is never done at WOT.

It seems that 65-70 mph on the speedometer (not the actual speed) is kind of a sweet spot where the bike's motor just hums happily along, with a small but comfortable reserve of power if needed.

I've never ridden my GTS with a passenger on board, so don't have an opinion or advice on that, but that's ok because I don't really care to ride it any other way than solo.

Others may feel differently, of course, but I don't have any desire to run my Vespa any distance at WOT. I have several much more powerful conventional motorcycles for faster highway trips if I feel that my Vespa would be strained on a long run.

When I rode it for two days last September and covered 840 miles, I did it at what would have been an actual 60-65 mph, with perhaps some miles covered at 70, but I was almost never running the bike at WOT if on a more or less level highway. I took my time, enjoyed the road and the view. The Vespa was happy, and so was I.

Not really. Nice try.

2003 Suzuki Burgman 400, AN400

MANUFACTURER SPECIFICATIONS

Manufacturer – Make – Model – Year: Suzuki AN 400 Burgman 2003
Motorcycle Style: Scooter

ENGINE SPECS

Engine Type: 385 cc, 4 Stroke – Liquid Cooled – Single
Engine Bore and Stroke: 83 mm x 71.2 mm
Compression Ratio: 10.2:1
Valves DOHC, 4 valves/cylinder
Carburetion: Keihin CVK36
Ignition System: Electronic
Claimed Horsepower: 32 hp (23.9 kW) @ 8000 rpm
Maximum Torque: 32 Nm (23.6 ft. lbs) @ 6000 rpm

Transmission type: Variable ratio
Final Drive: Belt

There you have the reason why Bill Dog had issues. Perhaps if cdwise and WLeuthold did not put so much effort into inflating their egos and using it to call out Bill Dog, they may have realized the issue was due to having a carbureted scooter while riding in high altitude.

I seem to recall the two of you having crashed on your bikes. Should that be used as an assumption of your riding skills or should I dig a bit deeper for the actual cause?

I appreciate your effort to support your argument.

I looked up the details on Bob's Burgman 400. It was a 2007, which had EFI. And you claimed to have bought it.

So the '03 specification, while factual, appears to be a red herring when it's not the actual model in question.

This is turning into Burgmangate!

seems that's the case any time Bill is involved.

+1

Rode my 2018 GTS about 300 miles in a single day near (but not at) WOT a couple of years ago. It didn't explode.

I ride the PCX150 at WOT on the freeway. It hasn't exploded yet, either, but it has less than 2000 miles on it. A guy on the PCX forum said that "you don't have to 'baby' " the PCX's engine, and I'm testing out his theory.

Both Cheryl's and my replies were to counter BillDog's initial point, that scooters are bad for riding up and down from the top of tall mountains.

He has a history of disparaging scooters on this scooter forum, so someone with a different experience should always reply so this slanted opinion doesn't permeate the site.

We had different experiences and wanted others to know that they will probably be able to ride their scooters anywhere they want.

I am aware that BillDog is an excellent rider. That was never the issue.

When he spun it to be that the scooter's issues were due to it having a carburetor, why didn't he state that in the initial posting?

And if he knew it had a carburetor, why would he ride it to 14,000 feet without rejetting?

Bill

To be fair I pretty much disparage anything that I don't like or I feel has failed me in some say but I think that my real failing is that I often bang on too much about the negatives rather than the positives and yeah, that pisses a lot of people off who are more emotionally invested than me.

This may hint at a lot of unhappiness within myself or I'm just intolerant to anything that has "failed" me in my eyes.

The BMW is hell to ride in town because of its heavy clutch and gearbox. The Moto Guzzi is very cramped and uncomfortable but beautiful to look at and the Kawasaki is just incredibly boring so it's not just Scooters that I criticize. I'm just a bit more vocal but when I'm venting I rarely consider other people's feelings and yeah, I don't really know when to stop. Forgive me.

The 400 Burgman is a brilliant bike but hill climbing isn't it's strength as it really struggled going up to the sumit as there was literally no power to spin up the CVT which gave me no drive out of the corners so yeah, I was a bit concerned about my safety while trying hard not to glimpse over the edge.

You'd think that going down would have been better as gravity should be helping me but even with the throttle pinned, 30mph was all it would do but as soon as it got into Colorado Springs it was back to normal again.

The next day we rode to Kansas in 95 degrees and it spun like a top.

I can only assume that it was the lack of air up there that made it run so badly but if it had fuel injection why didn't it compensate rather than just choke out ?

As for how long can you run a GTS 300 for on the highway - I think I've done 21 to 22 hours on one at between 70 and 80 mph ( Indicated )

The EFI strives to maintain an ideal blend of fuel and air into an engine and will adjust fuel input based on the air inducted into the engine. As altitude increases, the amount of air decreases and the fuel is decreased in kind. Engines generally lose about 1% of rated power for every 300 feet of altitude above sea level. At 13,000 feet, that could be over 40% of rated power lost and then you're riding the equivalent of a very heavy 150cc.

The CVT setup on the '07 Burgman doesn't help either. My buddy has the same scoot, even down to colour. It is very relaxed on acceleration and turns lower RPMs to reduce stress on the engine and NVH for the rider.

Unfortunately, it's a pig on hills. I wound up putting a Malossi Multivar setup in it to get the revs up a bit and make it more sporty. There was a fuel economy penalty, but I don't leave him behind as badly at altitude anymore and he can merge into freeway traffic with less anxiety.

In that case I'll bow to your greater knowledge of these things and apologise for my flippant attitude.

I naturally assumed that its inability to ride up a mountain was purely down to it not having enough air and not the CVT/ lack of air Combo.

To its credit it did everything else very well for 3800 miles.

I stand corrected.

About 3 hours though I didn't hit the rev limiter but mostly above 80. I was trying to stay ahead of weather or I wouldn't have been on the freeway.

on the topics of efi vs carbs

I was reading the details of how the MIUG3 ECU (pre-HPE) works and it samples the air pressure once at ignition on before the starter is pressed and uses this to estimate the oxygen content of the air while the engine is running. So to get the most out of your GTS you should stop and turn the ignition off every now and then (few hundred vertical meters?) during the ascent / descent of a mountain.

The point is discussion. And how you feel about something someone says doesn't make it any less true lol. This made me laugh. Can't tell if it's supposed to be some kind of making-yourself-feel-better about having a less good vehicle, or trying to start some kind of who has the more expensive toys pissing contest? lol.

You don't need to have expensive toys to be cool man. You just need to ride them. Whatever they are. Price does not always correlate with value. And that's okay. Yes, quite self respecting from what I've seen lol.

If the topic of conversation was "What don't you like about your Honda Motorcycle" - are you really above adding to the conversation the things you were less than crazy about? And even if you weren't, what's so bad about joining the conversation?

Don't be so upset, it's just discourse among afficionados. There are many people who have better bikes than me, don't see me getting butthurt about it. Don't see me denying it either. Be cool man.

You know the stars have aligned correctly when kz1000ST and I actually manage to agree on anything.

Scooterist aren't supposed to ride more than three miles without a rest stop anyway. Scootering is hard work!
If we needed to ride longer than that we would get a real proper motorcycle.

In fairness, we only know better from worse after we've experienced both, right?

A man who marries his first woman will think "That's just the way women are." A man who enjoyed a bachelor youth may have a more well-rounded understanding.

When I got my 50cc two stroke I thought "Wow this is so much better and safer than a four stroke!"

When I got my 250cc motorcycle I thought "Wow this is so much better and safer than a 50cc two stroke!" etc. etc.

Repeat for literally dozens of bikes from all different brands over the last 15 years. Some were improvements and I kept them for years, others I discovered were steps backwards and I sold them soonafter.

I feel comfortable on my GTS250 at highway speeds, but, there's a limit. It's not the bike I'd want to cross-country on. Whereas when I'm on my G650GS, or my F700GS, I think "Wow this is so much better and safer." We know better because we've had better.

That doesn't mean the GTS is any less worthy of love. It just means I accept all of the great things about it, as well as the not so great things... If that triggers anyone, that's cool. I'll laugh about it as I pick which motorcycle or scooter to joyride based on what color underwear I have on.

When I purchased my GTS 300 last August, I 'adjusted' my attitude towards it, and my expectations of it to match it's strong points, performance, etc., and not ask more of it than it was designed to give, and in doing so, quickly learned to appreciate and enjoy the bike immensely.

I am thoroughly impressed by it's refined and smooth mechanical operation, and how much practical, 'real world' performance Piaggio has squeezed from such a relatively miniscule 278cc single cylinder motor, a displacement class that I otherwise seldom find much interest in at all.

I too can pick from a small fleet of larger machines that occupy our garage, but the excellent little Vespa usually gets equal consideration with our other bikes, which are all much larger and much more powerful than the Vespa, but are, on average, not ridden more often than the scooter. These other machines span two 47 hp 650's, a 77 hp 1200, and on the crazier side of things, a 165 hp, 2500cc Triumph Rocket 3 triple for those days when anything less than 'Way too much" just won't do (like for today's ride, heh, heh!).

No, I've never been disappointed in the performance of my GTS, and it never fails to give me a grin or two when ridden.

I never ride our other, larger-in-every-way bikes, then hop on the GTS and think, "Damn, this thing is a slug!", because to me, it isn't. It's a marvelously balanced package and a delight to ride.

Yes, I have become a 'Vespa fanboy'.

Here's my issue. What offends me is the nose in the air attitude some people have about their choice of two wheelers. It's divisive, unwarranted and based, not on fact, but personal (there's that word again) choice. I have both and used them on occasion for tasks when the other type is better.

These days I go to motorcycle events and better than 90% of the participants are on Harleys. Mostly I keep to myself or seek out other Metric owners. Maybe it's reverse snobbery or maybe I just have nothing in common with Harley owners. My logical mind tells me this. If 90% of all motorcycle sales are Harley's in the Hudson Valley no other dealer in the region would be able to keep their doors open. My discussions with people outside these events have had these results about them attending. "Those things are all Harley, who needs the hassle."

When you go to the next Amerivespa take note of how many other brands are in attendance.

It isn't a matter of nose in the air when someone relates a different experience with a particular scooter/motorcycle. I don't really care what you ride. Your experience on a particular motorcycle or scooter is just that yours. Someone else on the same make, model, year may have a different experience. Relating those differences doesn't make you a snob or either one of you wrong.

We frequently see "you can't safely ride a Vespa on the freeway", Vespas GTS won't go over 72mph. Yet, many here do go well over 72mph on their Vespas, often with GTS tracks to prove it is actual not indicated speeds in the 80s. Some commute quite happily on the interstates every day and others will do the interstate when they want to get somewhere in a hurry even if they prefer not to be on it. I fall in the second category whether on a scooter or a bigger displacement motorcycle as I prefer more interesting roads but will go on the freeway when I need to be somewhere quickly - usually to more interesting roads or to escape weather.

Others will never under any circumstance even consider going on the freeway or going over whatever speed is their comfort level regardless of what they are riding. All are right for themselves but saying so always leaves you open to someone who disagrees based on their own experience. Take the comments, including your own for what they are worth to you.

Whatever you ride should make you happy or at least content and not filled with fear. If it doesn't then what you are riding isn't right for you or perhaps riding isn't for you anymore.

That's you. I can't tell you all the digs I got back in the 1980s from Harley and BMW riders that I was riding a "Jap" bike as if I was a poor, ignorant schmuck who would learn better in time.

A couple of years ago I did a 100 mile ride in the Catskills on my CF Moto Helix copy. A Harley rider who parked next to me, during a break, asked me in a condescending tone. "What is that?" When I told him, "A Chinese copy of a Honda Helix." he looked disgusted, actually raised his nose a little and the conversation ended right there.

Never mind that I did and finished the 100 miles in the lead pack on a China scoot. Nope. I was riding a Chinese POS. Case closed.

Three years ago a man on the Maxiscooter of USA page on Facebook showed some photos from a Sunday ride. He was on a Silverwing and had a photo, "Welcome to Lake Geneva" in Wisconsin. I asked, "Did you go to Amerivespa?" His reply, "Amerivespa??"

Riding home from Amerivespa in Lake Geneva on a BV 500 I was stop at rock scaling site outside of Steamboat Springs. The pimple faced kit with the STOP lollipop looked at me and said "why don't you have a real bike, like, you know, a Harley". Before I could answer the guy next to me on a Victory Bagger said "why would she want to downgrade. Once past the construction sites the guy on the bagger took off. I hung right behind him, next light he commented "that thing's fast".

On our anniversary we were staying in a very nice B&B in the Texas Hill country. Sitting on the balcony I could hear the group of Harley riders from Midlands BS on the patio below us. They were seriously dishing the guy and his girlfriend on a Trimph Tiger. Later that night sitting around the campfire all but one of the guys in that group had already gone to bed after a tiring day riding all of 180 miles from where they lived when the subject of motorcycles came up. There was a Harley rider and his wife from Houston (not part of the Midlands all male group), the Triump rider, the B&B owner who had a BMW, my husband and I. People talked about what they liked about their bike and several comparisons, unfavorable, to Harleys were made including the lack of a reverse gear on the big Electra Glides vs the BMW. The only Harley rider from the Midlands group was getting rather defensive and turned to the one from Houston and said, "hey, why aren't you helping me with what makes Harley's best". They guy from Houston told him, "I'm always willing to learn about what might be better." I was smiling internally about the turn about from the smack talk I'd heard earlier in the evening.

Stopped at a traffic light in Pasadena Texas, blue collar oil refinery town next to two guys. One on a Harley with a girl on the back, the other on a Honda. Despite being within feet of them they "didn't see me" on my GTS. Light changed and I left them before they cleared the cross walk. After that happened a couple of times the guy on the Honda leaned across his friend and said, "I'm ready for you". Now I hadn't been trying to beat them just a normal twist of the throttle but that time I paid a bit more attention to the lights and did hit the throttle harder. Granted both bikes could smoke me once up to speed but frankly their clutch work left something to be desired so there wasn't a lot of time before the next light. Light after that the guy on the Harley started with "that ain't no moped" (gotta image a long drawn out Texas drawl on the word moped to fully appreciate how he said it.) I said,, no it wasn't. Then came the barrage of how many ccs, cost, gas mileage. While I was answering the light changed and his friend took off. I still managed to pass his friend before he finished crossing the intersection. As I said, his use of the clutch could certainly be improved and it was a cruiser not a sports bike. We reached the interstate where I turned north, they turned south with a big wave from both riders.

The prejudice against Japanese bikes was pretty common decades ago and has since morphed into one against Chinese bikes which I totally get. I'm rather guilty of being dismissive of most Chinese bikes as well due to poor quality of the cheap imports. I know that CFMoto generally does have better quality but I doubt most do.

You should consider the source when deciding how to take something. The more someone puts down another person or thing it usually is a sign of their insecurity. Yeah, it can be annoying but really it is their problem not yours. The truly "old school" riders I've encountered on Harleys generally seem to take the position it isn't what you ride but that you ride. Kind of like the Peter Fonda character at the end of Wild Hogs.

This post is another reason Modern Vespa is the best scooter forum out there. Freedom of speech reigns supreme here. I look at this forum as more of a "scooter" forum than a "Vespa" forum. All are welcome, even non-Vespa fans. I don't own a Vespa anymore. I think they are beautiful and enjoyed riding mine, but they weren't reliable. That's my experience. So I got a PCX. I tried PCX forums, but they sucked. Bill Dog doesn't love Vespas. Good! Me neither. But we are both welcome here (or I like to think we are).

It is definitely great to discuss Vespas on this Vespa forum. Positives and negatives that is.

It's just very boring and bland if some here will repeat without fail, that in their personal opinion Vespas aren't as good as other motorcycles. That's all.

You want to be that dense, your choice, it doesn't bother anyone much I would think, at least I myself couldn't care less. It's just not interesting. At all.

People that absolutely have no decent clues about what a scooter is, are adept enough at providing this soundtrack, see cdwise's last post, there's no need to add to it.

Right! I love this forum and my Vespa. So much for your opening remark.😆 Well you took a lot of effort and time to address something that doesn't bother you and you find uninteresting 🤔 They're the dense ones? I did. This point in particular shined. Oh the irony. Yet here you are, adding to it.

In a beautiful twist of irony I've just been offered a Burgman 400 ( with fuel injection )

Hilarious.

It is indeed.

I'll come out when I'm good and ready.

Well….........are you going to buy it?

The suspense is killing me.