Modern Vespa

I've lost count of the number of times I've encountered this - but this one was particularly galling. The lady in question had replaced the battery a year ago (I did the replacement). Then, after riding only a few miles, she had to have another knee surgery, and put the battery on a 'maintainer'. The instructions said it was OK to leave it permanently connected, so she did, despite my having previously warned her.

Needless to say, today I was called to help as she wanted to try riding again, and the LX wouldn't start. The battery read fine, 13V, but as soon as the ignition was turned on, that fell to 11.2V. Yup, buggered.

I replaced it with one of my spares, and assured her that it wasn't really necessary to use a maintainer at all with a good battery - this one would last 6 months quite happily. Then if anxious, she could put it on the maintainer FOR 24 HOURS MAXIMUM. As soon as the maintainer says "OK", it'd be good for another 6 months.

She'd paid $75 at Batteries plus for this not-so-good battery - it said AGM, but it was one that had acid added, not sealed at all.

I took $40 - $35 for the battery from Amazon, $5 for 5 minutes of my time.

I'm not positive that this will help, but I have a truck that, left idle, eats batteries. I can't tell you how many times I've replaced the battery -- at some point they get low for long enough that they become damaged and won't take a charge any more.

I bought this Noco 5 charger with a battery repair feature a bit over a year ago, and have managed to resuscitate the truck battery twice so far. I'm quite happy with it.

As a bonus, it's a nice compact little device.

https://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GENIUS5-Fully-Automatic-Temperature-Compensation/dp/B07W8KJH44/

I figure it's just about paid for itself at this point.

(And yes, I should really drive the truck more often -- but I don't have many reasons to, and Patrick probably puts more miles on it per year than I do).

The really clever ones with 'battery repair' really do work - the Optimate is a good example. However, don't leave one of those on for too long, batteries really don't appreciate being left on even a very low charge for long.

Interesting.

I have a Battery Tender that hasn't given me trouble when attached for a long haul.

I purchased a Mega Boost with a Cycle Gear coupon and it killed my battery after what seemed like a reasonable time (maybe two weeks) away from the bike.

Assuming it was just a coincidence, I replaced the battery and then let a neighbor use the Mega Boost while he was away on vacation. He too came back to a dead battery.

The battery and tender companies are in cahoots!

Did you do the setup of the failed battery yourself?

If not, how do you know the battery was not set up poorly, and that was the cause of the decreased lifespan, rather than the maintainer?

My batteries are on maintainers 24/7/365 unless they're on the road. Half dozen bikes. Only issue experienced this year was with was a lithium battery who's capacitor failed. It was a manufacturing issue replaced under warranty.

Hold on a sec. Buggered? I thought the consensus was for buggerized in the US.

This is getting confusing.

They're allowed to use that word in the US?

I'm gonna be in SF again for a couple weeks starting this weekend. My battery has been disconnected for 4 months. It's gotten daily use for most of the last 3.5 years, modulo the other multi-month international tour I took in 2021.

I had a friend watching it then. He tried charging it and said the battery was just about full when I came back. It's in a storage unit now. Curious to see if it'll start enough for me to ride it on Sunday, or if I'm gonna have to borrow a charger or something. Really hoping I don't have to replace the battery, since I'm likely to store it for another long spell a few weeks later.

Lead batteries lose about 4% charge a week - so I've always assumed they must be charged or topped up every 5 weeks or so to prevent damage.

I'm surprised lithium batteries aren't fitted to more vehicles as standard. Even Tesla's and the Vespa Elettrica have a separate 12v lead acid battery which must work or the vehicle won't turn on!

Lithium barely discharges when left and can be used right the way down to around 5% remaining, whereas lead tends to go bad when the charge drops under 50%.

Yes. Purchased from Batteries Plus, topped up before installation and first use.

I'd be installing LFP batteries every time - the performance is just what's needed for a motorcycle - but the price would have to come down to make it worthwhile. I can buy three LA batteries for the price of the cheapest LFP I can easily find (Walmart, $99). Close, but not close enough.

I think Batteries Plus may be the problem. I've had nothing but problems with their batteries. They just don't last. I stopped buying them. I bought a few because there is a Batteries Plus half a mile from my house. I have 6 bikes and 2 cars connected to battery maintainers, 24/7 except when they are being ridden/driven. I've been doing that for 20+ years. Only problems I've had were with batteries from Batteries Plus. IMO, Yuasa SLA or AGM batteries are the best. Those are both lead acid batteries. I have a 2016 Honda Rebel 250 I bought new in 2016, mostly as a collector's item, and to ride when I am no longer able to ride larger bikes. It came with a sealed Yuasa battery in it. I have only put 1467 miles on it in seven years. It is living room kept, with TruFuel in the tank and a battery maintainer on it. I do start it up, warm it up, and ride it around the block every few weeks. I keep expecting the battery to fail, but so far it hasn't.

Ditto. I've had an old fashioned Yuasa on a cheap Battery Tender Jr for nine years! I've never had a problem, ever, with a Battery Tender. Now that's hardly a scientific study, having only a sample size of about ten vehicles, but I see no reason to stop using them. They turn themselves off most of the time.

Problem is the garbage Chinese battery, not the maintainer.

And there are far more reports of bad batteries without maintainers than with.

I am also in the maintainer camp, 20 plus years, and often use a timer so it isn't on all the time with normal battery tender type maintainer devices. I did buy a slightly better one for the mower that I leave on all the time because of the sequence it goes through when it is attached.

This was a high-end battery, not Battery Plus's cheapest, made in Vietnam - but that should make no difference. Why you would sneer at Chinese or other Asian suppliers I don't know - would you sneer at anything not made in the USA? If so, don't you dare buy anything British, French, German or Italian.

I'll add I've had great longevity from cheapo Asian batteries which currently retail for ~$35. One is still going strong 5 years after being installed.

Because its a very well known fact that cheap batteries from China, which this one is also (Vietnam origin labeling is the way to skirt tariffs by the Chinese manufacturers) are garbage. Quality Yuasa batteries, which are OEM Piaggio, are only made in Japan and Taiwan and cost around $100. This is not news. This is not an anti Asian rant.

You know, now that "smart" electrical devices are reasonable in price, you can plug your maintainer into a smart outlet and program whatever on/off cycle you want on the outlet. Best of both worlds.

This seems to work for me.

Chris from CLE

Some maintainers will draw some current even when switched off. Yes, there should be a 'stupid boy' diode in the way, but the cheaper ones don't seem to.

I do exactly this for a tractor, a truck & 2 scooters with Kasa smart plugs. They are programmed to turn on once every week.

This is an excellent idea.

re: manufacturing of yuasa, do you have a source on that?

My latest Yuasa battery is made in my state of PA, according to the writing on it. Not sure all the places they're made.

The PA plant is East Penn Mfg. AKA Deka. I was not aware that Yuasa is having them make some batteries. They make all of the OEM batteries for Harley-Davidson, and they are a fine product. I got 11 years out of my last Deka battery on my Sportster. It was an AGM.

Is yours an AGM or lead acid? The Yuasa lead acid I installed this weekend was made in Taiwan.

Yes, the packaging and the enclosed data sheet.

What you experience with maintainers is a surprise to me.

I have in my BV 300 a Yuasa battery and in winter I use a CTEK trickle charger that is permanently connected for weeks. It is a CTEK MXS 5.0. I use it since 2021 and so far no issue with the battery, the contrary actually. (I assume a trickle charger is the same as a maintainer)

I have the idea that although my battery is 11 year old the trickle charger keeps it in very good shape. And that is why I started using the CTEK the whole year around.

I have used CTEK chargers for years. They are expensive, but don't wreck batteries. They also have a "recondition" feature which adds a deep discharge cycle to keep the plates clean. Scooters have tiny batteries and tend to be used for short trips, so the the battery often doesn't get to a full charge. Over time, that can reduce its life and capacity.

CTEK states it reconditions a battery. Can be, or maybe it is only promo talk, I do not know. But fact is my battery is in good condition.

I kept my boat batteries, house and start bank, connected to a maintainer for 8 years. The starts were original, Costco's finest, and I had to replace the house bank because of low water during Covid quarantine. Otherwise, maintainers are good. Many maintainers will do a de-sulphate cycle which involves about 16 volts for a few hours, basically boiling the battery. This is fine and can be done about every 6 months or so but will result in some battery acid vapour and a bunch of H2 being emitted and therefore should be done outside the bike and your garage. It was necessary on my boat but probably overkill for a scoot battery. Also, a lead-acid battery that is allowed to drop below 65% and/or the water drop below the tops of the plates, is toast. If it doesn't croak immediately it will leave you stranded. Start batteries only use a tiny amount of current to start your scoot and that is largely done with "top-charge." You really should not allow the start battery to run accessories for very long as you do not want to deplete this top charge. If you routinely do power your lights etc., you might be better off with a deep cycle battery, which can tolerate discharge much better than a start battery.

I use the CTEK on several vehicles to good effect. I have not experienced the issues the OP has highlighted. I believe that it can bring a battery 'back', if you use the correct setting. And, the correct setting for maintaining. I have not had to replace batteries in any vehicle for many years now. The Battery Tenders do go bad. When they do, hopefully you recognize it and replace the tender before the battery is toast.

Bottom line, I leave the CTEk (and the tender) on for long periods and have had no ill effect.

Battery Tender has a warning about leaving a battery charger connected for months.

"MONITORING SEALED & NON-SEALED BATTERIES: When leaving a
battery charger connected to either a sealed (AGM or GEL) or non-sealed
(flooded battery) for extended periods of time (weeks, months, etc.),
periodically check the battery to see if it is unusually warm. This is an
indication that the battery may have a weak cell and that it could go into a
thermal runaway condition. If the battery releases an excessive amount of gas
or if the battery gets hotter than 130°F (55°C) during charging, disconnect the
charger and allow the battery to cool."

Well known by whom, and what is the evidence?

I just saw that Malossi sells a battery charger & maintainer. I wonder how many more HP it would give

https://www.malossistore.asia/en/battery-charger-smart-battery-charge-mantainer-6v12v-1a-for-batteries-from-2-to-20ah-4419240-P