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@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
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Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
I decided to make this topic its own post as it really didn't fit with the original topic.

Now, on to connecting the wiring..... I replaced my '66 large frame Allstate's rotted out OEM loom with Mercado's #92563 VBB harness. Is there a way to use the original stator with coil, brake and handlebar switch and headlight? Or does everything need to be changed out?

Thanks for everyone's help with this!!!!
⚠️ Last edited by garncarz on UTC; edited 2 times
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@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
That harness is a Balanced AC harness, so if the old system was Balanced AC, it should work with the existing switches and stator.

If it's not, then you can modify things (the headset switches, run a new brake switch wire) pretty easily to make it all work as a batteryless, regulated system.

Maybe some day I'll actually write up a tutorial on what's required. Razz emoticon

That being said...is your goal to end up with a 6V Balanced AC system or a regulated system?
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@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
garncarz wrote:
Chandlerman,

My goal is to have an electrical system that actually works. Retaining a 6V batteryless balanced system is OK but would not object to a regulated system. What's easiest?

Here is the the cheaped-out Sears OEM layout that is in my large frame Allstate, prior to swapping out the perished harness with the new VBB one. The current OEM stator is a 5 wire (R/Y/Y/W/B). Can the current stator be connected to the VBB loom? If so, how? Thanks.
OEM Allstate Cruisaire (large frame) setup.
OEM Allstate Cruisaire (large frame) setup.
New VBB harness schematic
New VBB harness schematic
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
The first thing you'll note is that this bike is from about the same time that the world changed over from black and white to color, which can be a bit confusing at first. Razz emoticon

Did you get a new headset switch, or are you trying to keep the switch?

The biggest change, going through the wiring diagrams, is that the headlight now runs on the same input (Yellow wire) as the pilot & tail light. That doesn't seem right to me, since the load onto the tail & pilot would cause them to blow if the headlight is not on, but *shrug*. Previously it was its own circuit on a white wire which ran stator->junction->headlight->switch.

Can you take a picture of the front and back of (both) switches for me? That'll help me figure out what's going on.
@mjrally avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@mjrally avatar
73 & 74 Rally, 76 ET3, 80 P200, 06 PX150, 59 Ser 2, 65 Silver Special, 90 V5N 50, 2015 HD Road Glide Special
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UTC quote
I'm pretty sure the Allstate headset switches are the common 60s variety so you shouldn't have to worry about anything there. VBB harness should marry into that no problem.

On the original stator yellow is horn, headlight and running light. Blue is brake, white is ground and red is ignition kill.

Looking at the VBB diagram, you'll have to combine green and yellow at the harness to yellow, blue to blue, red to red and white to black (harness ground).
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@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
The first thing you'll note is that this bike is from about the same time that the world changed over from black and white to color, which can be a bit confusing at first. Razz emoticon
Yes, as Calvin's father has noted in the past.

I only have and am trying to keep the OEM switch. See below. Thanks for the help. Also, the Allstate does not have a pilot or speedo bulb.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9928
Location: Nashville

69 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
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69 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I thought I'd attached the full version to my original post. That being said...lemme mentally process those switch pics and get back to you.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@ray8 avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Joined: UTC
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Location: Los Angeles
 
Molto Verboso
@ray8 avatar
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UTC quote
An "if I were you" for ya'...

Wire it as a 6v regulated bike, replace the switches with new, close-enough to original 12v-compatible ones.
Power from your stator through a 6v regulator. You can locate it near the junction box, or better, mount it inside the left cowl with three* 3' strands of 18 gauge wire. Easier to troubleshoot, add a battery, whatever, vs under the tank.
*Ends can be color-taped later.

So why?
Oldie switches are prone to giving one trouble/confusion.
It'll be PNP switching to a modern ignition if/after going through enough of that trouble.

Ask Matt if this is a "closer/shutter," or could be modified to be one.
Looks very close to your current potential troublemaker:
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/89471

This is a closer for sure:
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/181637
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@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
I thought I'd attached the full version to my original post. That being said...lemme mentally process those switch pics and get back to you.
Gracias.
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@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
Mercado recommends the 92041 switch (w/ pole #8), so I ordered one.
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/92041

Any insights on how to mod/connect the new loom to the OEM Allstate stator would be greatly appreciated. Also, I have a spare stator from a VMA1. I'm wondering if I can recoil my allstate stator to be compatible with the VBB harness? I.e., remove all of the coils but ignition for the OEM largeframe stator and replace with the two lighting/horn coils from the spare VMA1 stator.

In hindsight, I should have just copied the old rotten allstate harness and made a new one from scratch. Unfortunately, the old harness went out with the trash Facepalm emoticon Frankly, I am not to far away from just ripping the new loom out and doing just that.

Sorry for the rant, and thanks again.
Spare VMA1 (66 small state) stator
Spare VMA1 (66 small state) stator
OEM large frame Allstate stator
OEM large frame Allstate stator
OP
@garncarz avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
 
Molto Verboso
@garncarz avatar
1964 Allstate Cruisaire, 2022 Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, 1972 Suzuki T500J
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1021
Location: York, PA (the intellectual center of the universe)
UTC quote
garncarz wrote:
Mercado recommends the 92041 switch (w/ pole #8), so I ordered one.
https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Switches/92041
I just wired the junction box as follows:

Engine side-----Harness side
Yel/Yel------------Yel/Yel/Grn
Blu----------------Blu/Blu
Red---------------Red
Wht---------------Blk

Installed the new 8 pole switch. No pilot bulb. No speedo bulb. No external ignition coil. Essentially, stock allsate. Results: Tail light works, Headlight high beam works, Horn works, Lighting on/off switch works. No brake light, no headlight low beam (filament test good). Making progress.
⬆️    About 2 months elapsed    ⬇️
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UTC

Ossessionato
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Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Ossessionato
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Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
I make my own Allstate wiring looms from 1951-1965. These are made with original specs: colors, length, and finished with wax string knots. Attention to details in every loom.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
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