OP
UTC

Member
P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 24
Location: Hermosa Beach, SoCal
 
Member
P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 24
Location: Hermosa Beach, SoCal
UTC quote
tldr: maybe not?

In the process of dealing with a running but decently gouged p200e engine (pictures here: US-spec 1980 P200E w/ 13,000 miles; time for new cylinder?), I came across those sub $100 piston + cylinder kits out of India on eBay.

With my hobbies, often those random facilities in India are the same ones making "OEM" parts, and sometimes the third shift stuff they sell on the side is still pretty decent. With an "OEM" Piaggio setup costing $200+ and being good at clawing back my money on eBay, I figure this is worth the risk.

I picked up this 200cc kit for almost exactly $100 including tax and shipping, and it includes the piston, cylinder, rings, wrist pin, and circlips.

The cylinder is compound cast, with a machined steel inner casting and aluminum cast over that. It was only $10 more than the all-steel unit. I saw some gripes about exhaust manifolds not threading in correctly, but mine went in fine and seems to seat correctly. The honing on the bore wasn't done quite right (they didn't move in and out fast enough), but should be fine. The aluminum overmoulding seems to have restricted some of the ports a bit compared to the original, maybe about 10% in cross-sectional area, so I'm going to go through with a dremel. Top and bottom surfaces seem flat enough, though the top will definitely get wet-sanded flat with a piece of glass. Missing the dowel pin on the bottom for whatever reason.

I also need to poke around how the base gaskets work, if I'm remembering right those combined with the cylinder length effectively determines the compression ratio. I'll need to take some good measurements of that compared to the original, as the new cylinder seems about 0.010" shorter than the original with a quick caliper check.

All of the casting and machine work seems totally adequate on everything, and it all came with a dab of cosmoline-like stuff, which I'm going to have to get off before taking measurements.

So far, it seems like a surprising amount of effort went into things. Good packaging (though I think I still got a slight dent in a fin), about a week shipping from india, nice surface finishes everywhere it matters, and things generally look like they were done by knowledgeable workers.
Of course, time will be the real test, but I'll have some measurements in a few days to see how close they got.
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UTC

Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4593
Location: London UK
 
Jet Eye Master
PX221 MHR, O tuned PX200, PX125 and some motorbikes
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4593
Location: London UK
UTC quote
I've seen one of these several years ago. Look fairly rough but can be treated like a tuning blank. All the ports will need re sizing and timing. The one I helped with, was with thinner rings (1.5mm?). It ran fine until the exhaust stub fell out after a few weeks. Unrepairable. Guy went back to a stock cylinder.
Never know, yours might be an upgrade.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
like jack noted, everything will need to be checked and possibly adjusted/resized. I've played with a few of these and the results were very mixed.

one the port windows on the piston were nowhere near a match both size wise and location wise to the barrel. one piston was total junk, the ring pins were in the wrong location and the pin didn't fit. one had the aforementioned exhaust wouldn't thread problem. one the barrel wasn't anything like straight, which lead to premature con rod failure.

all of them had HEAVY pistons with super thick cast rings. which, fine. just something to keep in mind RPM wise.

the one I had the best luck with was one of the aluminum 225 jobbers. the ports were tiny but the rest of it checked out okay. I ran it for awhile on a 60mm setup until it ate itself. honestly though, it didn't feel much faster or powerful than a stock 200 that I had set up nearly the same.

so, basically it's a roll of the dice. they're cheap and if you get a good one you might come out okay. either way, you'll still need to put the work in on it.
OP
UTC

Member
P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 24
Location: Hermosa Beach, SoCal
 
Member
P200e
Joined: UTC
Posts: 24
Location: Hermosa Beach, SoCal
UTC quote
Checking out the pistons, I'm seeing slightly lighter for the Indian one than my Piaggio original, at 8.02 vs 8.36 oz. Both have some crap on them, but I'll comfortably call that equal.
Ports are pretty much identical, larger if anything for India piston. Positioning on ports, ring pins, etc is all correct and matches the original.

Rings are quite thick at a hair under 2.5mm. They do have the edges chamfered correctly, which I didn't expect.

I bought a right angle pneumatic pencil grinder to help out the ports on the cylinder; can't think of anything else that could get to them.

If anybody has specific measurements/qualities I should look for and post about, beyond the standard bore sizing, ring gap, and cylinder height, those would be appreciated. So far it seems like things have gotten a bit better with mystery India vespa shop over the last few years?
@gickspeed avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2160
Location: Racing Capital of the World
 
Ossessionato
@gickspeed avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2160
Location: Racing Capital of the World
UTC quote
This cylinder reminds me of those neat youtube videos of Indians sand casting parts off of originals, then doing some machine work to get them in sale-able shape. While i would pass on getting those things, i do respect what they can do out of a 1 room shop with a couple 80 year old mills & lathes . . .and whole bunch of sand.
@xperimental21 avatar
UTC

Hooked
Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 100
Location: -7 degrees
 
Hooked
@xperimental21 avatar
Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 100
Location: -7 degrees
UTC quote
314159td wrote:
tldr: maybe not?

In the process of dealing with a running but decently gouged p200e engine (pictures here: US-spec 1980 P200E w/ 13,000 miles; time for new cylinder?), I came across those sub $100 piston + cylinder kits out of India on eBay.

With my hobbies, often those random facilities in India are the same ones making "OEM" parts, and sometimes the third shift stuff they sell on the side is still pretty decent. With an "OEM" Piaggio setup costing $200+ and being good at clawing back my money on eBay, I figure this is worth the risk.

I picked up this 200cc kit for almost exactly $100 including tax and shipping, and it includes the piston, cylinder, rings, wrist pin, and circlips.

The cylinder is compound cast, with a machined steel inner casting and aluminum cast over that. It was only $10 more than the all-steel unit. I saw some gripes about exhaust manifolds not threading in correctly, but mine went in fine and seems to seat correctly. The honing on the bore wasn't done quite right (they didn't move in and out fast enough), but should be fine. The aluminum overmoulding seems to have restricted some of the ports a bit compared to the original, maybe about 10% in cross-sectional area, so I'm going to go through with a dremel. Top and bottom surfaces seem flat enough, though the top will definitely get wet-sanded flat with a piece of glass. Missing the dowel pin on the bottom for whatever reason.

I also need to poke around how the base gaskets work, if I'm remembering right those combined with the cylinder length effectively determines the compression ratio. I'll need to take some good measurements of that compared to the original, as the new cylinder seems about 0.010" shorter than the original with a quick caliper check.

All of the casting and machine work seems totally adequate on everything, and it all came with a dab of cosmoline-like stuff, which I'm going to have to get off before taking measurements.

So far, it seems like a surprising amount of effort went into things. Good packaging (though I think I still got a slight dent in a fin), about a week shipping from india, nice surface finishes everywhere it matters, and things generally look like they were done by knowledgeable workers.
Of course, time will be the real test, but I'll have some measurements in a few days to see how close they got.
Based on my experience, most Indian made parts quality including cylinders are below Taiwan made parts. Rough finishing and different measurements from original Piaggio. In the end, I need to do some finishing works for the parts.

afaik, there is still one brand from India which not bad at all, named Vifo. Unfortunately, they don't make cylinders.

For stock cylinders, I always stick with Vitalia (taiwan) or PT Danmotors (taiwan made sold in Indonesia *i guess).
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