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I took my 2020 GTS HPE out for a nice ride this morning. I had been riding for about 1 1/2 hours and stopped to take a photo. When I went to restart the bike it would crank for about 2 seconds than stop cranking. Let off the starter button and try again with same result. Turn everything off and back on still same result. It had started fine about 10 minutes earlier.

Battery voltage showed 12.3 on the display. I decided to check the terminals anyway and make sure they were tight. The terminals were tight so I decided to try one more time and it fired right up. I rode it 20 minutes to get home where I started and stopped it several times with no problem.

Any thoughts? I did the 6000 mile service about 300 miles ago and everything has been fine until today. The engine was definitely warm from running it pretty hard but it was not an overly warm day (75 degrees).
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Could be fuel pump. Although no recalls for HPE models, we had quite a few with this problem and the pumps were replaced under warranty…
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Molto Verboso
Vespa GTS 300
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Yes, maybe Fuel Pump!

But recall/ issue was for GTS 300 with production date in 2021.

Could you hear the fuel pump working, after turning key? If it happen again, try to check.
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If it stops cranking, then the fuel pump is fuck-all to do with it.

It's a dodgy connection somewhere. Time to get that multimeter out - the starting circuit isn't that complicated. Don't forget some of the relay 'grounds' are in fact outputs of the ECU.
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I just checked my vin and have no active recalls.

Would a fuel pump stop the engine from cranking? When I pressed the starter it would crank for 1-2 seconds and then stop even though I was still holding the starter button. It would crank again as soon as I released the button and pressed it again.
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2wheelsDan wrote:
I just checked my vin and have no active recalls.

Would a fuel pump stop the engine from cranking?
No.
Quote:
When I pressed the starter it would crank for 1-2 seconds and then stop even though I was still holding the starter button. It would crank again as soon as I released the button and pressed it again.
Don't take guesses at this - start logical testing.

Does the brake light come on?
Do you get +12V getting to the starter relay, AND does the relay 'click'?

Answers to those questions will narrow it right down.
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Thanks JimC. We were both typing at the same time and is why I asked about the fuel pump. I don't have time today to play with it but will get my meter out tomorrow and start doing some checking.
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2wheelsDan wrote:
Thanks JimC. We were both typing at the same time and is why I asked about the fuel pump. I don't have time today to play with it but will get my meter out tomorrow and start doing some checking.
As this is intermittent, you might want to take the meter with you when you go out and about - those checks are very quick and easy to do at the roadside.
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Molto Verboso
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Don't the HPE bikes have some quirk where they won't crank if the throttle is opened? Maybe the throttle plate is out of whack slightly and it's thinking the OP is opening the throttle?
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az_slynch wrote:
Don't the HPE bikes have some quirk where they won't crank if the throttle is opened? Maybe the throttle plate is out of whack slightly and it's thinking the OP is opening the throttle?
This is true, but I believe it's the voltage from the ECU input of the drive-by-wire throttle that controls that, rather than the throttle plate position itself. BICBW.

I'm assuming there's no throttle input from the OP.
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2wheelsDan wrote:
Thanks JimC. We were both typing at the same time and is why I asked about the fuel pump. I don't have time today to play with it but will get my meter out tomorrow and start doing some checking.
You do not mention any problem with the engine stopping randomly once it is running.

There are a few conditions that have to be met before it wants to crank over:
the kill switch, the side stand, one of the brake levers.

But if the problem would be in a bad contact in the kill switch or the side stand I would expect that also can happen when driving and the engine would stop running. You do not mention any problem with that.

The brake lever is a better option. Do you have the issue independent of what brake lever you pinch? It is unlikely there would be a false contact in both levers at the same time.
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PeterCC wrote:
The brake lever is a better option.
Agreed!
Quote:
Do you have the issue independent of what brake lever you pinch? It is unlikely there would be a false contact in both levers at the same time.
Actually, that happens about 50% of the time! Nearly everyone uses the rear brake lever to help start, so if the right-hand switch has gone faulty first (which is a 50:50 situation) then the problem is only discovered when the left-hand one packs up.

This is where a turn-signal bleeper having its ground through the brake light (with suitable added parallel resistor if they are LEDs) comes into its own, as it won't go silent if a brake switch has gone faulty - assuming that only that one brake is applied, which should happen quite often.
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Molto Verboso
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jimc wrote:
(...)

This is where a turn-signal bleeper having its ground through the brake light (with suitable added parallel resistor if they are LEDs) comes into its own, as it won't go silent if a brake switch has gone faulty - assuming that only that one brake is applied, which should happen quite often.
Such a bleeper would indeed be welcome.
My BV does not have it, and I sometimes forget to switch off the turn signal. Embarrassing. It looks so newbie, as if you're new to driving a motorcycle. I drive a motorcycle for 43 years and still sometimes forget the blinker.

Last week saterday I was parking the BV at a shop and another scooter arrived, it was a Kymco, and he had a bleeper. Not loud but you could here it clearly.

I can install one aftersales but no. I want to keep the BV as original as possible.
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The engine never cuts out once it is running.

To be honest I'm not sure if I tried both brake levers.

I did recently add an LED turn signal / running light kit from Vespa motorsports. The rear signals did tap into the wiring for the tail light but I don't think it was the ground for the brake light. I think it was tapping into the 12 v to the rear running light to make the turn signals function as running lights as well. I will double check that.

What puzzles me is if it was a bad switch connection, either brake lever, side stand, kill switch... why would it let the engine crank at all? I tried several times and it would crank 1-2 seconds every time I pressed the starter button and then stop cranking. It probably only cranked for 1 second but the engine was definitely turning over and I didn't notice that it was slow or sluggish.

I put my meter and a jumper cable under the seat so if it happens again I can troubleshoot and jump directly from the battery to the starter if need be.
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If it only has a hard time starting when the engine is hot, your decompressor might be outside the tolerance.
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But would a bad decompressor stall the starter motor?
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mayorofnow wrote:
If it only has a hard time starting when the engine is hot, your decompressor might be outside the tolerance.
The exact same thing happened to my 2021 HPE. It would start right up when cold, but if I drove it a mile or two, shut the engine down to get gas, it would not start back up again until the motor cooled down. The dealer couldn't figure it out at first, but with the help of Piaggio, followed their guidance in the service bulletin and repaired my bike under warranty. It's been fine ever since.
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Mopedlar wrote:
The exact same thing happened to my 2021 HPE. It would start right up when cold, but if I drove it a mile or two, shut the engine down to get gas, it would not start back up again until the motor cooled down. The dealer couldn't figure it out at first, but with the help of Piaggio, followed their guidance in the service bulletin and repaired my bike under warranty. It's been fine ever since.
This unfortunately sounds like a plausible cause of my problem. Reading the service bulletin it isn't something I could check myself. I don't have any faith in our local dealer and can't imagine what it would cost since it is out of warranty.
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Mopedlar wrote:
The exact same thing happened to my 2021 HPE. It would start right up when cold, but if I drove it a mile or two, shut the engine down to get gas, it would not start back up again until the motor cooled down. The dealer couldn't figure it out at first, but with the help of Piaggio, followed their guidance in the service bulletin and repaired my bike under warranty. It's been fine ever since.
But did the starter motor stall while you were trying to start? The OP states it stops after two seconds.
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jimc wrote:
But did the starter motor stall while you were trying to start? The OP states it stops after two seconds.
Sometimes it would stall after one or two seconds, other times there was absolutely nothing.
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Considering the scoot is now three years old and if it is the original battery, I would start there. Yes, I can already hear people saying - "I got six years out of my last battery", but three years is about the average lifespan of one. It would be nice to know how much the battery voltage drops when the starter motor is engaged.
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If I can here the engine crank for a second or two wouldn't that eliminate decompression? I would think if combustion chamber pressure was to high it would never turn over. It sounded normal when it tried to start. A soon as a valve opens wouldn't that release any pressure?
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jimc wrote:
This is true, but I believe it's the voltage from the ECU input of the drive-by-wire throttle that controls that, rather than the throttle plate position itself. BICBW.

I'm assuming there's no throttle input from the OP.
it's not drive by wire. the cables from throttle are classic physical push/pull direct to the butterfly. if the ecu detects via the throttle position sensor that the butterfly is open it won't trigger the starter relay when the button is pressed
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SteelBytes wrote:
it's not drive by wire. the cables from throttle are classic physical push/pull direct to the butterfly. if the ecu detects via the throttle position sensor that the butterfly is open it won't trigger the starter relay when the button is pressed
Interesting. There was me thinking the butterfly was controlled by a stepper motor. with the TPS as the feedback.
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jimc wrote:
Interesting. There was me thinking the butterfly was controlled by a stepper motor. with the TPS as the feedback.
maybe you were thinking of the idle bypass that does use a stepper motor
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SteelBytes wrote:
maybe you were thinking of the idle bypass that does use a stepper motor
I think you're right! Thanks for the reset.
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2wheelsDan wrote:
If I can here the engine crank for a second or two wouldn't that eliminate decompression? I would think if combustion chamber pressure was to high it would never turn over. It sounded normal when it tried to start. A soon as a valve opens wouldn't that release any pressure?
In an earlier message you said you did "recently add an LED turn signal / running light kit from Vespa motorsports".

Did you ever had the issue before that installation? Or did it start thereafter?
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PeterCC has also good point. When I retrofitted LED headlamp, after few months my Immo started to be jammed by LED interferences and I was not able to start time to time. Check your Immo control light, if it doesn`t showing error. It is the fastest check, before changing the fuel pump, which is my highest bet here...
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LED signals were recently installed. The non start issue has happened 1 time and was after the lights were installed.

I've checked connections to starter, starter relay, grounds... and everything looks good. I will continue to ride it and will troubleshoot if / when it happens again. I'm not just going to start changing parts.
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I had the same issue and it turned out to be excess gas in the EVAP system from overfilling the tank, hard starting and check engine light every so often

'18 GTS Cannisterectomy

GTS Check Engine Light

I ended up removing and all the issues went away

Also I would check the battery connection screws, if the positive or negative is loose slightly can cause a problem maybe
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