OP
@badblackbishop avatar
UTC

Member
2020 GTS 300 HPE Touring, 2023 GTS 300 HPE 2 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento California
 
Member
@badblackbishop avatar
2020 GTS 300 HPE Touring, 2023 GTS 300 HPE 2 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento California
UTC quote
I currently own a 2019 Vespa GTS 300 Touring HPE which has 18,076 miles on it. I had the first belt replaced at the 6,002 mile mark. That belt broke (Actually it shredded into a tangled ball of sinew and a lot small rubber bits) at mile 12,011 while getting on the freeway. It was replaced and then that belt broke (Actually same as described above) at the 18,076 mile mark. Should belts break at 6,000 miles?

I had my Vespa serviced at the correct mile intervals by a authorized Vespa dealer. However, I have serious doubts that any of it was actually performed but that is not the subject of this post. I have a hard time seeing a belt breaking at 6,000 miles. I could easily see a belt breaking at 12,000 miles though. I can't help but wonder if the original belt was replaced at 6,000 miles. That could explain the first broken belt but what about the second broken belt? Does anybody have any experience with multiple belts breaking?
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
do you mainly ride high speed for sustained periods or long distances? because that will eat up a belt.

count yourself lucky that you got that mileage out of the first belt. because of the wear and tear on the transmission components (drive faces) the mileage on the 2nd one wasn't great.

was it an OEM belt?
@jakem avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 661
Location: Brighton, England
 
Addicted
@jakem avatar
Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 661
Location: Brighton, England
UTC quote
On a Vespa Sprint, the belt has to be replaced every 6000 miles, so that is the lifespan (assume GTS is the same?) - but I guess you don't expect it to snap immediately over that limit!

That's akin to drinking milk at midnight and it expiring 1 minute later at 00:01am ROFL emoticon

Other companies do sell performance belts (Malossi springs to mind), and so maybe it's worth looking at a stronger part?

Also, it might be worth seeing if there's any rough marks on all the parts that physically touch the belt?
@cosmos avatar
UTC

Addicted
2009 LX 150, 2024 GTS Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 911
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
 
Addicted
@cosmos avatar
2009 LX 150, 2024 GTS Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 911
Location: Birmingham, Alabama, USA
UTC quote
Greasy is on to something here. It seems the longest belt life is gotten using the OEM belt. If your dealer used an aftermarket belt, that could be shorter than normal life. For the GTS I recall something like a 9000 mile belt change interval. At 12,000 miles on an OEM (or any belt) that is run hard on mostly the interstate you can expect belt failure.
@steelbytes avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5706
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@steelbytes avatar
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5706
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
UTC quote
Not sure it would explain the death of your belts but I wonder if the replacements were put on the correct way - they have arrows on them for a reason.

Btw, I did my last belt change at 8000km and it's was showing a little cracking - not bad amount just a little. Ii do abuse my scoot
@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
I want to elaborate on what greasy said and point out that heat is the enemy of belts. Riding fast for sustained periods of time (such as long freeway riding) will keep the belt in a very hot state, during which it will shed rubber and generally degrade. This will shorten the life of the belt. When ridden around town at a leisurely pace (with plenty of cool-down between cycles) the belt tends to last quite a bit longer.

It doesn't help that OP is in Sacto, though location is probably not the most significant factor.

Everything that applies to the belt also applies to the tires -- the rear tire, in particular, will wear out much faster when ridden for sustained distances on the freeway.
@vintagescooterdude avatar
UTC

Hooked
2006 GT200 2009 Genuine Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 279
Location: Chandler, AZ
 
Hooked
@vintagescooterdude avatar
2006 GT200 2009 Genuine Stella
Joined: UTC
Posts: 279
Location: Chandler, AZ
UTC quote
I had a belt break with only 4000 miles on it on a Yamaha Vino 125. The scooter had 34,000 miles on it when it happened, all mine. I replaced the belt and rollers at 10,000, 20,000, and 30,000 miles. The old belts always looked fine, just normal wear. Most of those miles were at full throttle. The one I put on at 30,000 miles broke at 34,000 miles. Like you said, it was completely shredded and melted. The whole inside of the case was full of sticky rubber dust, and there was melted rubber on the pulleys. It was an oem Yamaha belt, and was installed properly. I never figured out what happened. If it was because I was riding mostly at full throttle, why didn't that happen to the other belts?

On the Vespa I carry a spare belt and tools to change it with beside the road. That wasn't possible on the Yamaha, because the engine oil sight glass was in the CVT cover, and when you removed the cover, all the oil would drain out.

Yes I am near Phoenix, AZ, possibly the hottest inhabited place in the country.
@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
VintageScooterDude wrote:
If it was because I was riding mostly at full throttle, why didn't that happen to the other belts?
I can't really speak to the Vino specifically, but that sounds like more of a catastrophic failure than a general wear failure. Belts shouldn't melt unless something more serious is wrong.
UTC

Addicted
SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: chattanooga tn
 
Addicted
SilverWing 600-- 4nprevious Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 567
Location: chattanooga tn
UTC quote
with over 400,000 miles experience with rubber band drive scooters-----never a problem with OEM belts in Europe/Asia/US---changed at 15,000 mile intervals with OEM---only one broken belt in those miles underway---Helix in VA, belt was near end of service life and it fell apart just as I left Freeway----I carry spare belt---Helix had one advantage over other scooters, you could change belt by squeezing rear clutch, blocking with piece of wood, belt could be changed without unbolting anything other than the sidecover=nice feature!
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
With a brand-new variator and clutch, a belt will last 12,000 miles with no problem - even the maintenance section prescribes 9,000 for the first belt change, and 6,000 thereafter. Even I, riding like a hooligan, got 15,000 miles out of my GTS250 belt when the bike was brand-new. Those were mostly twisty rural roads though. I stretched it that long as a test, and only changed it because I was going to go on a 3,000 mile tour around France.

Once the variator and clutch pulleys get grooves or ridges, the belt life rapidly decreases. So now I inspect at 4,000 miles, and change at 8,000 regardless of apparent lack of wear.
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
Cosmos wrote:
Greasy is on to something here. It seems the longest belt life is gotten using the OEM belt.
Is this from personal experience, or something you read online?
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
There are far too many places that just replace the belt when your belt breaks. And the new belt doesn't last very long.
The biggest cause I've seen of belts self destructing is a lack of grease in the clutch assembly. There are needle bearings on the inside of the pulley, and a lot of people will dab a little grease over them and think they've done something. There are four holes where the pins go, and one of them is for grease to be put into the center of the pulley, then work it's way out so it lubricates the two pulley halves as they open and close. About 20-30 grams of grease shoved into that hole is about what it takes on a Vespa clutch assembly. Basically A LOT more than you think. Then, you block the hole at the end of the clutch assembly and put it on, so you don't force grease out the hole in the bearing and onto the axle.
If a belt breaks, you need to take the clutch completely apart, check for worn parts, lubricate the heck out of it, and put it back together. The Chinese manufacturers aren't known for being particularly liberal with grease, and for some reason, we are seeing more belt breaks since Piaggio started sourcing drive train parts in China instead of Taiwan.
This is part of the service manual for a very well known manufacturer's scooter. In addition to the bearings, seals, and o-rings, they tell you to put a lot of grease inside the pulley, where the clutch shaft goes through. And the drive pulley I got from them had two 40g tubes of grease with it. No matter who makes it, these clutch assemblies are all pretty much the same, and I can almost guarantee you that when the OP's first belt broke, nobody took the clutch apart and packed it with grease.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
Is this from personal experience, or something you read online?
I make no claim to longevity of belts OEM or aftermarket-- or at least from a known entity aftermarket, that is.

I was more of the thought was it a poor quality belt that was installed.
@greasy125 avatar
UTC

Sergeant at Arms
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
 
Sergeant at Arms
@greasy125 avatar
Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
Joined: UTC
Posts: 14961
Location: The state of insanity, SoCal
UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
There are far too many places that just replace the belt when your belt breaks. And the new belt doesn't last very long.

....If a belt breaks, you need to take the clutch completely apart, check for worn parts, lubricate the heck out of it, and put it back together.

and I can almost guarantee you that when the OP's first belt broke, nobody took the clutch apart and packed it with grease.

....for some reason, we are seeing more belt breaks since Piaggio started sourcing drive train parts in China instead of Taiwan.
all of this. 100% all of this.

the first belt always lasts the longest because all of the parts are fresh. once the pulleys take a "set" and get worn in (and usually grooved) the next belt seems to last about half the mileage as the first.

if you couple that wear with some residual debris from a shredded belt and skimped on servicing the components, expect a very short life span.
UTC

Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1174
Location: Tucson, AZ
 
Molto Verboso
'07 GTS250, '07 LX150, '81 P200E, '78 P200E, '64 V90 and 3 Ciaos
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1174
Location: Tucson, AZ
UTC quote
VintageScooterDude wrote:
I had a belt break with only 4000 miles on it on a Yamaha Vino 125. The scooter had 34,000 miles on it when it happened, all mine. I replaced the belt and rollers at 10,000, 20,000, and 30,000 miles. The old belts always looked fine, just normal wear. Most of those miles were at full throttle. The one I put on at 30,000 miles broke at 34,000 miles. Like you said, it was completely shredded and melted. The whole inside of the case was full of sticky rubber dust, and there was melted rubber on the pulleys. It was an oem Yamaha belt, and was installed properly. I never figured out what happened. If it was because I was riding mostly at full throttle, why didn't that happen to the other belts?
Vino 125's have a rubber snorkel that fits inside the cylinder shroud. It fits on the intake of the transmission and pokes out the bottom of the shroud. If that falls off or disintegrates, you wind up sucking hot cylinder air into the CVT case and it kills the belt pretty quickly.

Just got a replacement snorkel for a friend's Vino; the part is discontinued (like most YJ125-specific parts). Belt lasted about 4K, unsure how many of those miles were with cylinder preheating. Probably having a 143cc kit and a Stage 2 cam didn't help much, but boy do they give that scoot a kick in the pants.
@2wheelsdan avatar
UTC

Hooked
GTS300 supertech
Joined: UTC
Posts: 101
Location: York, Pa
 
Hooked
@2wheelsdan avatar
GTS300 supertech
Joined: UTC
Posts: 101
Location: York, Pa
UTC quote
OP says he has an HPE. Isn't belt change interval reduced to 6000 miles for this engine?
@jakem avatar
UTC

Addicted
Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 661
Location: Brighton, England
 
Addicted
@jakem avatar
Vespa Sprint Sport S 125cc
Joined: UTC
Posts: 661
Location: Brighton, England
UTC quote
2wheelsDan wrote:
OP says he has an HPE. Isn't belt change interval reduced to 6000 miles for this engine?
Yes, looks to be 6000 miles:

https://www.scooterwest.com/hpe-consumable-kit-with-tools-for-belt-variator-valve-oil-service-6k-18k-30k-hpe-gts-super-gtv300-1.html#:~:text=This%20deluxe%20belt%2C%20variator%2C%20and,job%20the%20Scooter%20West%20way.&text=Any%20GTS%20HPE%20owner%20should,by%20the%20Piaggio%20service%20schedule.
Quote:
Any GTS HPE owner should know that you need to change your drive belt every 6,000 miles (10,000 km) by the Piaggio service schedule.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20619
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20619
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
2500 miles of sustained highway riding between 70 to 80 mph will shread an OEM belt on a Kymco Downtown 300.
@steelbytes avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5706
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@steelbytes avatar
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5706
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
2500 miles of sustained highway riding between 70 to 80 mph will shread an OEM belt on a Kymco Downtown 300.
Ouch
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
GT 2.4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9026
Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
2500 miles of sustained highway riding between 70 to 80 mph will shread an OEM belt on a Kymco Downtown 300.
That is surprising. First belt? Any other changes?
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20619
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
 
eeeee bip
@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
Joined: UTC
Posts: 20619
Location: South East Great England of Britishland
UTC quote
No modifications. First belt.

1000 miles then 7 days later 1500 miles with no time for cooling hence it let go on me in spectacular style.

As any Cannonballer will tell you - if they don't get a chance to cool they will de-laminate.
OP
@badblackbishop avatar
UTC

Member
2020 GTS 300 HPE Touring, 2023 GTS 300 HPE 2 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento California
 
Member
@badblackbishop avatar
2020 GTS 300 HPE Touring, 2023 GTS 300 HPE 2 Super
Joined: UTC
Posts: 23
Location: Sacramento California
UTC quote
I want to thank you all for your replies. To answer the questions all of the belts that broke were OEM. And I mainly (About 60% or the time) use it for long distance rides on the highway. For the new belt I replaced it myself and opted to go with an aftermarket "performance" belt to see what happens. I was aware of checking all of the components for wear and replacing them as needed. They all looked acceptable as per Vespa specifications or by others recommendations. However, I was unaware of the need for greasing specific ones. I am half tempted to go back in and apply some grease to the clutch assembly. Now that the warranty has expired I can have my Vespa serviced by another mechanic and/or do it myself.
@jimc avatar
UTC

Moderaptor
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
 
Moderaptor
@jimc avatar
The Hornet (GT200, aka Love Bug) and 'Dimples' - a GTS 300
Joined: UTC
Posts: 43890
Location: Pleasant Hill, CA
UTC quote
badblackbishop wrote:
Now that the warranty has expired I can have my Vespa serviced by another mechanic and/or do it myself.
You could do that before the warranty expired.

Magnuson-Moss warranty act.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson%E2%80%93Moss_Warranty_Act

https://www.ftc.gov/legal-library/browse/statutes/magnuson-moss-warranty-federal-trade-commission-improvements-act
@mopmop avatar
UTC

Hooked
2017 GTS300 'Beauty'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 434
Location: The Netherlands
 
Hooked
@mopmop avatar
2017 GTS300 'Beauty'
Joined: UTC
Posts: 434
Location: The Netherlands
UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
As any Cannonballer will tell you - if they don't get a chance to cool they will de-laminate.
Don't the 200 km gas stops give it enough time to cool down?

Or are belt driven bikes just not suitable for highway riding?
@jess avatar
UTC

Petty Tyrant
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
 
Petty Tyrant
@jess avatar
0:7 And counting
Joined: UTC
Posts: 37329
Location: Bay Area, California
UTC quote
Mopmop wrote:
Don't the 200 km gas stops give it enough time to cool down?
No. Riding at fully-heated for an entire gas tank takes a toll on the belt, and the brief time you spend fueling during Cannonball is both infrequent enough and short enough to be inconsequential.

And the serious riders have aux fuel tanks anyway, and aren't stopping.
Mopmop wrote:
Or are belt driven bikes just not suitable for highway riding?
They're not suitable for Cannonball. General freeway riding isn't as dire, but it will reduce the belt life.
@steelbytes avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5706
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@steelbytes avatar
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 60,000km
Joined: UTC
Posts: 5706
Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
The biggest cause I've seen of belts self destructing is a lack of grease in the clutch assembly. There are needle bearings on the inside of the pulley, and a lot of people will dab a little grease over them and think they've done something. ...
this is interesting. I assume this affects the belt as it would cause more heat
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0223s ][ Queries: 4 (0.0058s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]