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Drama Free
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Had been sitting on this PK for a long time. Picked up in January of 2017 and other projects kept coming up and this one kept getting neglected.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
What I decided to do with it.
What I decided to do with it.
The bare minimum of what I needed to cut off to fit the cylinder.
The bare minimum of what I needed to cut off to fit the cylinder.
Old 130 piston sitting in the cylinder for reference.
Old 130 piston sitting in the cylinder for reference.
⚠️ Last edited by poidog on UTC; edited 3 times
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
Popcorn emoticon
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greasy125 wrote:
Popcorn emoticon
X2
UTC

Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
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Addicted
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UTC quote
Whats the plan, slap the kit on and run it till it goes bang, or are you doing a full strip and build with better bottom end etc
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UTC quote
Full strip and build of the engine with bottom end. The frame, not so much. No choice on the bottom end as the cylinder requires a 115mm conrod length to work.
I don't like cutting cases if possible. The less cutting, the happier I am. This kit intrigued me as the porting was all done in the cylinder above the deck. Hence, the extra long connecting rod. In other words, no case cutting!
Original plan was to go Egig with rotary crank. Not able to purchase this stateside. No one will ship and those that will ship only stocked the reed crank. Probably for the better, since the rotary pad would most likely need to be lengthened. Reed full circle it is. All feedback I was able to gather steers towards the reed version making more power.
Waiting until all pieces were in stock was a test of patience.
Making sure it all lines up with no binding
Making sure it all lines up with no binding
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
Watching this one, should be a hoot.
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Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
X2
X3
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Drama Free
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Chose the Unisex pipe for lower rpm powerband hit. Decided to upgear a bit as that is what the build guide says. Decided on 29/68 straight cut, final gearing, stock 4th. According to the guide, 30/68 is an alternative with a short 4th. Gears don't look too different side by side but are VERY tight in the case! They fit with no machining of the case or the cover.

Trying the standard PK clutch with 4 plates and stronger springs. Just for ease of use and availability of parts. We will see how it holds. Crimaz clutch cover to hold it all in.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Right to the edge of the case
Right to the edge of the case
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
I like where this is headed.

Hit me up if you want a deal on an egig one finger clutch. I have one lightly used that wasn't up to the task for my Smallstate.
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79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Will do Chandlerman!! We will see if this clutch can hold it together or not. I did follow your amazing build and am terrified of anything past 8000 rpm! And you are just whizzing along wayy past 10k rpm plus!! INCONCEIVABLE! (Well, only for me).
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UTC quote
Looking good!

Interested to see if a normal clutch will hold up. I'm guessing it might slip, especially in 4th.

Oh you need to chamfer the ports, those are razor sharp out of the box.

I didn't do that with the first cylinder I got (lucky for me I ended with a second cylinder sent by egig. Story for another day…) and it ended up scoring the cylinder as I think it was catching the piston rings.
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79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Ok, ports chamfered, (and yes 108, they were sharp!), cylinder well brushed and rinsed (little sand still in the ports), conrod not hitting the cases, squish set, all buttoned up!
Strange plug is specc'ed for this cylinder. Shorty plug. BR9ECM vs BR9ES.
Pressure test next!
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@108 avatar
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UTC quote
poidog wrote:
Ok, ports chamfered, (and yes 108, they were sharp!), cylinder well brushed and rinsed (little sand still in the ports), conrod not hitting the cases, squish set, all buttoned up!
Strange plug is specc'ed for this cylinder. Shorty plug. BR9ECM vs BR9ES.
Pressure test next!
The short Spark plug is because you can't get the socket in if it's too tall. You end up hitting the frame and you can only put the plug in if the engine is lowered (rear shock off).
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UTC quote
108 wrote:
The short Spark plug is because you can't get the socket in if it's too tall. You end up hitting the frame and you can only put the plug in if the engine is lowered (rear shock off).
Figured it was something like that with the cylinder sitting so high.
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UTC quote
Actually you can get away with using a normal spark plug, you can use a thin walled socket and a wrench.

Break it loose with the socket and loosen the rest by hand.

Again, you child sized hands help out. Lol
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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UTC quote
I need to get some of those shortie plugs for the Smallstate. I have to drop the motor to pull the plug and usually make a blood sacrifice to even get to the plug cap.
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UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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@ginch avatar
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UTC quote
Watching with interest!
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79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Leak down test success!! First foray into Vespa reed engines and all is well. I say this because Honda and Yamaha were where I experienced reed engines first.

I also want to preface the rest of my posts here, going forward by saying that I apologize. I am not great at documenting or taking pictures every step I take. This is a pretty straightforward engine build which many of you have experience with. For those that don't, there are AMAZING builds on this forum that detail every step of a build if you want to learn from other's experiences and failures. Trust me, some of my best teachers were my biggest failures. I am pretty sure that many, if not most on this forum can attest to that.

Very little machine work needed, pretty much bolt-together is how advertised. I was curious to see how easy this was really going to be. I wanted to highlight the weirdness or quirks that may come up to someone that may go this route.

This kit comes with a BEAUTIFUL 8-petal reed cage with carbon fiber reeds, similar to the V-Force reeds by MotoTassinari out on the market. More reeds= less restriction and better response for reed engines. The inlet to the reeds even has a cast 'flow enhancer'. The one point of potential leakage I have circled. It is where the two reed cages meet in the reed box. I put a small smear of gasket sealer here.
Blood pressure normal.....  for now......
Blood pressure normal..... for now......
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
⚠️ Last edited by poidog on UTC; edited 1 time
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UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
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Lucky
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UTC quote
I'm really curious to see how this goes.

I think at this point, documentation is more the combination of what level you want to write (some of us are more verbose than others Razz emoticon ), with more of a "review," i.e. does it meet expectations? How's the parts quality? How well does it fit, etc.

I was originally going to use an egig170, but couldn't get one at the time, which turned out well, albeit much more expensive than I'd intended.
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UTC quote
Quote:
I also want to preface the rest of my posts here, going forward by saying that I apologize. I am not great at documenting or taking pictures every step I take. This is a pretty straightforward engine build which many of you have experience with. For those that don't, there are AMAZING builds on this forum that detail every step of a build if you want to learn from other's experiences and failures. Trust me, some of my best teachers were my biggest failures. I am pretty sure that many, if not most on this forum can attest to that.
Pppshaw! No apologies needed man. Great stuff.

Any weekend progress?
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Drama Free
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
A little more progress.

Now that the pump part is done (major ingredient for suck, squeeze, bang, blow), I am looking at the bang part, i.e. ignition. Speaking of squeeze, build sheet specifies a 1.3 to 1.5 mm squish. I thought it a little on the tamer side. Possibly due to a flat top vs a dome top piston? I am not sure. Adhering to the 'build it per the sheet' mentality, squish was set at 1.38mm with the gaskets included in the kit.

Build goal for this motor was tractable power. I wasn't looking to build a wheelie-monster. I wanted a road worthy, reliable, slightly over the top, fun scoot. Tractable was the key as I was putting down power as rubber to pavement, not nobbys to dirt. Decided on a stockish (more in a moment) Ducati ETS style flywheel. This has forward curved fins, large diameter, and some weight to it. In other words, better cooling and milder rev response. Plus, a flywheel that is too light will destroy my clutch and cush-drive springs. I also had a 6-pole Ducati CDI stator system as a spare.

The chosen flywheel had a rib/lip that was running right where the transfer port was. Lathe took care of that. One fin and the casting logo on the cylinder was interfering with the flywheel and had to be ground down a tad.

The system that came on the bike was a 4-pole flywheel and stator system. Similar to Roland87 and his PK Snowball post. A curious system as the CDI, stator, and flywheel go together, they won't mix and match with 6-pole systems. The regulator also seems specific to this system. A baby AC 3-wire regulator.
offending rib/lip
offending rib/lip
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
lathe work
lathe work
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
little grinding
little grinding
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
it fits
it fits
tight fit but it all clears.
tight fit but it all clears.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
4-pole system
4-pole system
specific cdi
specific cdi
comparison
comparison
baby regulator
baby regulator
baby rating also
baby rating also
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UTC quote
Wow... the clearance on the flywheel!!! #close.
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Ossessionato
2007 Stella 225
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UTC quote
That's one way to take some weight off flywheel.
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Weird 80's Vespas & Cool Vintage Lambrettas
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UTC quote
hot dang is that flywheel clearance toite

loving the build!
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79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Yes, the flywheel clearance is on the tight side. All turns freely now, we will see when the engine fires up.

Weight removal wasn't the plan when putting the flywheel on the lathe. It was necessary to remove the outer rib that ran right where the transfer port casting is. Inner rib provided a nice pseudo 'seal' against elements into the stator area.

Electrics done for now with the help of Jeff, aka BN and his wonderful gift of Ray8's amazing stand! Thank you kind sir(s)!
Wonderful stand!  When the engine is clean, it can stay inside.
Wonderful stand! When the engine is clean, it can stay inside.
@108 avatar
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Might be on the tight side, especially if you're using the NU204 roller bearing, I'd be tempted to take more out of the cylinder…

Best start it and see as you've gotten this far…
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Quote:
Wonderful stand! When the engine is clean, it can stay inside.
I pretty sure Mrs Poi Dog does not agree with this sentiment!
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Drama Free
79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Suck, squeeze, bang, blow. Intake is reed, mixer will be 28mm SmartCarb SC2. Intake boot is the same 35mm as the other carbs. Perfect.

Build specs call for any of the many 30mm carbs out there. I was intrigued after reading about the trials and triumphs on Charlieman22's Unicorn build page here and here.

Those that own small frames know how carb jetting on these bikes can be a test of patience and determination. Remove tank, remove carb, rejet, install carb, install tank, try to avoid cutting forearms on forward tank tabs in the frame, repeat.... over..... and over......
Main issue is where the carb is located. The SmartCarb top access dial adjuster for the needle and having to change just the needle (from the top) are what led me to the decision of trying this fuel-mixer.

I do not assume the carb will run perfect out of the box and there will be a learning curve but I am willing.

First thing is throttle cable and if the stock throttle pulley will give full throw to this carb's slide. Looks like success.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qgkOua6BLtU
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
say ahhhhh
say ahhhhh
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UTC quote
108 wrote:
Might be on the tight side, especially if you're using the NU204 roller bearing, I'd be tempted to take more out of the cylinder…

It is the NU204 roller bearing. I am a tad worried but I am hoping the straight cut gears will minimize the lateral forces on the crankshaft. I was pressing down on the flywheel turning it with engine laying on its side and I could not get it to touch or rub. First start will tell all. If I need to take more out later, shouldn't be an issue on the bike.
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UTC quote
Birdsnest wrote:
I pretty sure Mrs Poi Dog does not agree with this sentiment!
Haha!
She begrudgingly does, with a sneer and the promise that it will be temporary.
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UTC quote
Slide looks great!

That's definitely a success!

PK throttle at the bar seems to perform best out of the box…
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
Quote:
Those that own small frames know how carb jetting on these bikes can be a test of patience and determination. Remove tank, remove carb, rejet, install carb, install tank, try to avoid cutting forearms on forward tank tabs in the frame, repeat.... over..... and over......
Like your thinking. Smart Carb seems like a perfect choice for a smallie.
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Lucky
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UTC quote
Oooooh...I'll be watching the SmartCarb adventure closely! Popcorn emoticon Popcorn emoticon
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Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
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UTC quote
Smart carb is the perfect solution here, but it doesn't come cheap. W/ tax and shipping it would run me over $700. But if you want to build it better instead of cheap stock, this is how to do it. That said, let me address this common problem:
Quote:
Those that own small frames know how carb jetting on these bikes can be a test of patience and determination. Remove tank, remove carb, rejet, install carb, install tank, try to avoid cutting forearms on forward tank tabs in the frame, repeat.... over..... and over......
1. Grind and file smooth radius corners on those tank tabs so you don't slash your wrists.

2. Remove pikelhaupt (pointy thing at back of tank) and put it someplace safe until jetting is completely finished so you don't lose it.

3. Turn off gas and remove fuel lever.

4. Remove tank and set crosswise on frame because your fuel line is just long enough.

5. Undo choke cable at frame.

6. Loosen clamp bolt and rotate carb 180 degrees. You will dump a little gas here so put a rag under if this concerns you.

7. Remove float bowl, change jet.

8. Reverse process, turn fuel tap on w/ a screwdriver, drop tank in and go for a test ride.
jetting swaps on my 'new' SHB20L
jetting swaps on my 'new' SHB20L
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79p200e 66smallstate 85pk50xl 84p125ets 63GL
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UTC quote
Voodoo, as always, fantastic tips and tricks!!
SoCalGuy, we shall see! Hope it works out.

Engine is in, getting all the little bits buttoned up, cables, wiring, brackets, etc. Hopefully a first start here soon.

I was hoping to run an air filter on the intake of the carb. Space constraints are telling me otherwise. I do love being able to adjust the mixture with the big red dial right on top of the carb! Easy access.
Not much room for an air filter
Not much room for an air filter
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bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
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UTC quote
I don't run an air filter on my smallie. The carb is pretty well protected from debris down there inside the frame under the tank. If I did use one I'd go with something simple, like a mesh screen. The foam filters I've tried load up and are too restrictive.
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UTC quote
SoCalGuy wrote:
I don't run an air filter on my smallie. The carb is pretty well protected from debris down there inside the frame under the tank. If I did use one I'd go with something simple, like a mesh screen. The foam filters I've tried load up and are too restrictive.
Was hoping to find something simple like this mushroom type. I cannot find one with a big enough intake (50mm) and a short enough height. Simple mesh screen may be the way to go. Or no filter at all. That whole under-seat area is like a ginormous airbox; I may just punch huge holes in the tool box and cover/line it with foam!
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@108 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2412
 
Ossessionato
@108 avatar
V range 50s
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2412
UTC quote
Nearly at first start!!
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9918
Location: Nashville

68 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9918
Location: Nashville

68 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
I run the Smallstate with no filter. Other than spitback all over the inside of the frame, it works great.
@socalguy avatar
UTC

bodgemaster
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
 
bodgemaster
@socalguy avatar
63 GL, 76 Super (x2), 74 Primavera (x2), 79 P200, 06 Fly 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 7155
Location: So Cal
UTC quote
Something like this might work with some fiddlin'

https://www.treatland.tv/OKO-air-filter-p/oko-air-filter-g1-48mm.htm
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