OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Get up prince of Troy, won't let a stone get my glory!
I have done everything you guys have asked or suggested. I'll get to the bottom of it...
chandlerman wrote:
Trust me, we *all* get it. You don't want to have
to spend the money. But that's what you're probably looking at.

I don't think the crank is the issue. A millimeter of alignment isn't going to make a difference one way or the other, especially not on a points setup, where the trigger is a cam rather than a magnet on the flywheel.

Have you tested magnetism of your flywheel? You should be able to hang a 17mm wrench off it without issue.

If it's lost magnetism (a possibility since it looks like it sat separate from the stator for a while based on the rust), you'll NEVER overcome that other than through re-magnetising (I think Scooterwest do it as a service?) or a new ignition. But by the time you ship it and and pay for the work, you're back into new flywheel territory, price-wise.

Personally, I'd start with a Known Good ignition. You don't have to buy the Vape. I might even have something on the shelf you could "try now, return or pay later" if you want to go that route. It's a large/PX cone, right?

You could also get in contact with the Chicago VCOA chapter and see if someone on there could help you out. Bryan Bedell runs it and he almost certainly knows someone local you could borrow one from to figure out if that's an option. If you want to try that, PM me and I can give you his email. He's down in Maywood these days, but he knows pretty much everyone you might be able to connect with.

I got the impression you're on the north side, but I don't think you've ever said for sure. I was a north sider for almost 25 years before moving to Nashville three years ago.
⚠️ Last edited by npn on UTC; edited 1 time
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
Your stator is making juice, they either work or don't or are sometimes intermittent, they don't just wear out and get weaker. You have ALL the symptoms of one or more bad GROUNDS, meaning they kinda work but corrosion is creating significant resistance. Given the bike sat out in the weather for quite a while, it's not surprising. It does not mean replacing all the wires, just redo ALL the grounds. If there are corroded wires on your stator, Mercado will rewire it for you at a reasonable cost, or do it yourself if you know how to solder - it's really not THAT hard.

You're right about the weak stock lighting performance at idle even w/ good grounds.
Making sure I understand you. By "grounds" you mean all the spots where wires connect to the frame. Highlighted in the picture below. I've covered all of these, not only but I rechecked the rest of the wire connections. The only one I haven't checked is the one off of the black wire - center/right in the pic.
Grounds
Grounds
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
So a lot has been said already and here are my 2 main problems (everything else I've already addressed)

1. Engine doesn't idle unless RPMs are high, which is not right for many reasons

2. Electricity making it to the tail/brake light is very low, under 2v. Maybe I'm not saying it correctly but the tail light bulb coil barely gets orange and I can imagine with the red cover on even at night will be barely visible. I just can't accept that this is the norm.

#2 made me think that there's something wrong with the stator and even though it's 2 different coils, the issue may be common.

Right now I don't have a HT coil - the last one, under a month old, is dead. Why? Remember, the one before that (which wasn't the original) was dead too.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
chandlerman I live in the north/west part of Chicagoland. Maywood is 30-40 minutes away. Either way, I'm planning to eventually join VCOA, it looks like they do fun stuff!
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
npn wrote:
So a lot has been said already and here are my 2 main problems (everything else I've already addressed)

If you have enough of an air leak, you may never get a smooth slow idle. Your motor is sucking in random extra air but no extra fuel and motor starts to starve. You may need to do a crankcase pressure test and soapy water routine to fix it. Then you'll KNOW that's not your problem, or that it is. Lots of info on this if you search, it's not hard to do, just a PIA. I admit I usually skip this test, but I test run the motor in a stand so I can be sure it runs smooth before I put it in the bike. But most ppl doing a proper full rebuild do it, or if having having problems like yours. Air leaks are a major cause of seizing.

"#2 made me think that there's something wrong with the stator..."
So it DOES work, but it's just weak? Do the magnet test, can it hold a 17mm wrench up easily? I have a Bajaj motor in my Allstate that's older than yours, from back when they were still hooked up w/ Piaggio and my lights work well above an idle.

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
you can see the Bajaj style serial number stamped on the Piaggio branded engine casting

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
the older style flywheel is two piece like yours, w/ a separate heavy die cast fan which I replaced w/ a lightweight plastic one for quicker revs

External inline image provided by member with no explanatory text
I never measured voltage but a little more than idle makes the 6V Halogen nice and bright
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Literally, there's nothing more I can think of. Yes the magnets hold a 17mm wrench, and yes I did the pressure test back a month ago - there were 3 air leaks, the biggest on the cylinder head and I used copper spray for that. The other one was on the crankshaft on the flywheel side and I Permatexed it. Checked it last week it's holding well. But I wouldn't discard a possible new air leak after the engine got hot and got put under pressure
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
UTC quote
Can you post a video of the scooter running?
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Does anyone know where this ground point is?
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
hibbert wrote:
Can you post a video of the scooter running?
I'm waiting for a new ht coil, then I will
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
UTC quote
npn wrote:
Does anyone know where this ground point is?
I think it's in the headset and attached to the cable position plate
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
hibbert wrote:
I think it's in the headset and attached to the cable position plate
Not sure I follow
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
@spacecat avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa Primavera 1974
Joined: UTC
Posts: 223
Location: Nebraska USA
 
Hooked
@spacecat avatar
Vespa Primavera 1974
Joined: UTC
Posts: 223
Location: Nebraska USA
UTC quote
npn wrote:
Not sure I follow
In your first picture there are two little bolts holding the plate that your wrench is resting on. Likely the ground is supposed to mount on one of those bolts.

ETA: yes, I see wires mounted under the left of the two bolts. That's your ground.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Yep got it. It's a bolt, I expected a clamp... I resoldered that lead with the 3 black wires and tightened it back with the bolt. Not a super simple task especially when you drop a bolt down the throat lol. This was indeed the last loose end, literally, all grounds and leads have been redone now. At least that gives me peace of mind.
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
UTC quote
Wow the wiring inside the headset looks pristine and untouched. When I got my Chetak it had a very large HT coil that reminded me of an automobile coil. Don't know if this helps but maybe. You can see part of it in the attached photo. It looked like it was the original coil the scooter came with. I don't have it anymore or I would have offered it up.
Forum member supplied image with no explanatory text
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
hibbert wrote:
Wow the wiring inside the headset looks pristine and untouched. When I got my Chetak it had a very large HT coil that reminded me of an automobile coil. Don't know if this helps but maybe. You can see part of it in the attached photo. It looked like it was the original coil the scooter came with. I don't have it anymore or I would have offered it up.
Thanks, I appreciate it!

So what coil do you have now?
@hibbert avatar
UTC

Molto Verboso
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
 
Molto Verboso
@hibbert avatar
Vespa
Joined: UTC
Posts: 1716
Location: California
UTC quote
I changed the crankshaft to 60mm with a larger flywheel cone so I could use a standard P200 ELECTRONIC stator plate, flywheel and CDI. I have added a Keytronic for variable timing. You can find NEW stator plates for $40 on eBay and find good used flywheels for $20 if you know where to look. The crankshaft is more.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Can someone think of a reason why the second coil will fail only after a month, less than 2 combined hours of idling/5 miles total riding?

The old coil https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Ignition-Coils/97719 will not have metal to metal contact with the frame, but had 2 prongs one for red the other one for the 3 black wires.
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
I thought about this and wanted to test your new coil on a working bike or with my battery charger. Do you have access to ANY kind of 6V power to test it off the bike?

If you are right and it is truly dead then only 2 possibilities occurred to me. Either the coil is/was defective, or your wimpy system sent it such a powerful jolt it is now burnt out but that seems unlikely.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
I thought about this and wanted to test your new coil on a working bike or with my battery charger. Do you have access to ANY kind of 6V power to test it off the bike?
I have 4 medium size 1.5v batteries soldered to produce 6v which I used to test all the bulbs
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
I'd test that coil with it and call Dave if it won't make a spark on a new plug. A used plug CAN look fine, but still be fouled and make no spark. With all your flooding it is a possibility. I have a small box of plugs that look good but no spark that I may try to blast clean because they have that Piaggio label!
I can remember when they had small Champion plug blaster cabinets at gas stations until Champion wisely decided refurbished plugs are BAD! This Harbor Freight thing is cheap & clumsy but usually more or less works
I can remember when they had small Champion plug blaster cabinets at gas stations until Champion wisely decided refurbished plugs are BAD! This Harbor Freight thing is cheap & clumsy but usually more or less works
May not be worth the effort but I like them Piaggo branded plugs for no good reason and I do want to try the NGK iridium plug again now that I have flooding under control on my short plug motored AllState, and see if it fouls again.
May not be worth the effort but I like them Piaggo branded plugs for no good reason and I do want to try the NGK iridium plug again now that I have flooding under control on my short plug motored AllState, and see if it fouls again.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
v oodoo - believe me, I've tested everything, from the red wire coming out condenser, the the plug wire, the plug cap and yes new spark plugs. This is one of the things that pisses me off - I keep buying new things, and worse, having to wait for them to arrive in the mail just to find out it made no difference.

The diagram that markosmarkos posted here https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Ignition-Coils/97719
does not show that the coil is grounded. Come to think of it, the new coil died after I connected the rest of the wires and eventually cleaned them all up and redid the grounds.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3142
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3142
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
npn wrote:
v oodoo - believe me, I've tested everything, from the red wire coming out condenser, the the plug wire, the plug cap and yes new spark plugs. This is one of the things that pisses me off - I keep buying new things, and worse, having to wait for them to arrive in the mail just to find out it made no difference.

The diagram that markosmarkos posted here https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Ignition-Coils/97719
does not show that the coil is grounded. Come to think of it, the new coil died after I connected the rest of the wires and eventually cleaned them all up and redid the grounds.
Waiting for things in the mail while you are twiddling your thumbs is part of the fun. Especially when it's some dinky little thing that's standing between you and the joy of the open road. Been there many times even after doing my best to order extra and unanticipated items. You'll get there.
UTC

Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 611
Location: UK
 
Addicted
PK50XL, PK100S, ET3, Matchless G80S, Honda CBR400RR, Ducati ST4S
Joined: UTC
Posts: 611
Location: UK
UTC quote
Do you take Chandler up on his offer of known good working stator, flywheel and cdi. It would stop you chasing your tail and getting frustrated.
@chandlerman avatar
UTC

Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9843
Location: Nashville

49 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
@chandlerman avatar
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate, 79 P200E, 66 Lammy S3
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9843
Location: Nashville

49 Days Since Last Explosion
UTC quote
Matchlessman wrote:
Do you take Chandler up on his offer of known good working stator, flywheel and cdi. It would stop you chasing your tail and getting frustrated.
I just need to know if it's a small cone or large cone so I can make sure I've got a spare.
@spacecat avatar
UTC

Hooked
Vespa Primavera 1974
Joined: UTC
Posts: 223
Location: Nebraska USA
 
Hooked
@spacecat avatar
Vespa Primavera 1974
Joined: UTC
Posts: 223
Location: Nebraska USA
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
I have a small box of plugs that look good but no spark that I may try to blast clean because they have that Piaggio label!
I just saw that little device this weekend and wondered if it was a boondoggle.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
All right, did a coil test with my batteries (4 1.5v, total of 6v) based on this video:
So the test passed, I get spark at the spark plug. Mounted the coil again and did a test by holding the spark plug onto the head. Nice blue consistent spark!

Kick it over, the engines sputters and dies. Will not start again. Removed the spark plug, tested again against the head, no spark, tested 2 more plugs, no spark! Total mystery.

I think the coil is faulty; it has to do with the large amount of current accumulating internally and jumping over/shorting.

Thoughts?

EDIT:

Flywheel magnetism - it holds 17mm wrench, check
Points, timing, 18 degrees BTDC - check
New condenser, check
Removed flywheel, checked stator for obvious issues, check
All wire ends have been redone/re-soldered, check
Red wire from condenser onto frame - good spark, check
Testing for continuity between plug wire ends, check
Testing for continuity between plug wire and and plug cap, check
Have done the last 2 with 2 different wires and 2 different caps
Rotating 3 brand new plugs and 2 old ones, check
Testing coil with multimeter for ohm resistance, check
Testing coil with 6v source, check

Currently no spark, see above.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8511
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8511
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
remember, the lt coil on the stator makes the charging for the ht coil outside. if your ht coil is testing fine off the engine, the problem is within your lt coil or the inadvertent grounding of it to prevent the ht coil from building enough spark (kill switch wiring, short of the lt coil lead to ground somewhere, problem in the lt coil itself, or problem with the points/condenser).
@v_oodoo avatar
UTC

Style Maven
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
 
Style Maven
@v_oodoo avatar
'74 50s x3 '87 PK125XL '92 PK50XLS Plurimatic - & - '58 AllState '68 Sprint '66(?) Super125 and '72 DanMotor Super150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 9604
Location: seattle/athens
UTC quote
Quote:
Currently no spark, see above.
No spark now either, w/ battery test? If not, then it seems to be intermittent coil fault, get Dave to send you another one. I cannot see how your stator could kill a healthy coil even if you tried to!

If it still sparks fine w/ batteries, your problem is something intermittent on your stator.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
V oodoo wrote:
No spark now either, w/ battery test? If not, then it seems to be intermittent coil fault, get Dave to send you another one. I cannot see how your stator could kill a healthy coil even if you tried to!

If it still sparks fine w/ batteries, your problem is something intermittent on your stator.
Both need to be replaced or yes I'll be chasing my tail. The battery test is inconclusive. It's AC vs DC and also, cranking the engine over by foot measures 1.5v and when revved I'm sure it would produce over 6v.

I'm taking a break, I don't think I'll be riding the bugger this summer. What if it's not the stator and/or the coil? Then I have to redo the whole harness, or go for the 12v upgrade... when does it end? lol These things are meant for riding not for endlessly fiddling with.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8511
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8511
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
chandlerman has offered to send you known good parts to test, you can try that....

there's really not that much to these, the answer lies in a finite set of parts.
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3142
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3142
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
I had a bad pickup coil on my Stella. It would run fine, then run like crap and not rev over 1500 rpm. It felt like fuel starvation. It would be running great in a born to be wild way, then suddenly crap out on the road and I would clean out the carb jets, and check a bunch of things like that !@&$! green wire and it would run fine again and sometimes not and I would end up sputtering home at 15 mph. Tested out fine with the multimeter. It made me crazy. Went away when I replaced the Stator.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Update

I took my time and studied the wiring. With a set of continuity lightbulb tester and multimeter I found what the problem was. It's been the stator all along, specifically the points mechanism. It was shorting. And yes, points was the first thing I bought but the device wasn't compatible with the Babaj stator plate - different holes, thread etc. I "modified" it and now it's fine. More than fine - it starts on a dime and idles fine. Unbelievable what wild goose chase this thing sent me on.

Now, calling all wiring experts. I need a new stator because the lighting coil is shot - barely tail light and if I hit the brake, the rear light goes totally dead.

Question - all the stators I see online, including the one at scooter mercado, have 5 wires coming out of them - 2 specifically from the lighting coil. Mine has 3 coming out of the lighting coil - white and 2 blue; the 2 blue ones go each into the 2 diodes. The 2 diodes convert AC to DC.

See the pic. How do I make them compatible?
See yellow highlight
See yellow highlight
@orwell84 avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3142
Location: northern New York
 
Ossessionato
@orwell84 avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 3142
Location: northern New York
UTC quote
That's good progress. Give yourself a pat on the back.
@sdjohn avatar
UTC

Johnny Two Tone
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8511
Location: San Diego, CA
 
Johnny Two Tone
@sdjohn avatar
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
Joined: UTC
Posts: 8511
Location: San Diego, CA
UTC quote
npn wrote:
Update

I took my time and studied the wiring. With a set of continuity lightbulb tester and multimeter I found what the problem was. It's been the stator all along, specifically the points mechanism. It was shorting. And yes, points was the first thing I bought but the device wasn't compatible with the Babaj stator plate - different holes, thread etc. I "modified" it and now it's fine. More than fine - it starts on a dime and idles fine. Unbelievable what wild goose chase this thing sent me on.

Now, calling all wiring experts. I need a new stator because the lighting coil is shot - barely tail light and if I hit the brake, the rear light goes totally dead.

Question - all the stators I see online, including the one at scooter mercado, have 5 wires coming out of them - 2 specifically from the lighting coil. Mine has 3 coming out of the lighting coil - white and 2 blue; the 2 blue ones go each into the 2 diodes. The 2 diodes convert AC to DC.

See the pic. How do I make them compatible?
why not just replace your lighting coil and keep the rest?
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
why not just replace your lighting coil and keep the rest?
I have not been able to find one like what I have with 3 wires
@markosmarkos avatar
UTC

Hooked
Joined: UTC
Posts: 197
Location: no matter where you go, there you are
 
Hooked
@markosmarkos avatar
Joined: UTC
Posts: 197
Location: no matter where you go, there you are
UTC quote
Congrats on getting your issue sorted! Good on ya!

Quick question. Do you have a good 6v battery in your setup? The battery is a major part of this system.

The battery is what powers the tail, brake, turn signals, horn in your setup. Brown wire from battery to red wire out of the ignition switch. It is similar to the 74 model 6v Vespas with turn signals. The coil in question is to charge the battery. That's its only job. It is low output so as not to fry the battery. It will barely run lights. This system has no regulator, just the basic rectifier which is the two diodes. They take the alternating current coming out of the 3 wire coil, which has a center tap, to halve the voltage coming off of the coil at the ends and rectify it with the two diodes to DC. The battery is big (13ah) on purpose to take on extra charge and boil it off as there is no regulator. The battery becomes 'the regulator'. If I am not mistaken, the green to yellow wire powers your headlight. It is AC. The rest of the system is DC. This system can't run the lights well without a battery.

I have seen setups where the battery is eliminated and converted to AC. The center tap is taped off and the charging coils ends are used with a regulator. This won't be enough to power the turn signals, just the brake, tail light, and horn. And your horn will need to be changed to an AC horn. Robot video below shows this.

As was pointed out, you could change the lighting coil out to power everything but a regulator would be needed to prevent blowing out bulbs.

Battery is the quickest and easiest solution here IMO.


.
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
Thank you markosmarkos, this is what I was looking for! I guess others have mentioned most of what's in your post earlier, but I never put two and two together sort of speak...

I do have a brand new battery but it hasn't been charged.

There's another problem too, not so much related to the lighting coil - there's no electricity going to the head light bulb, which is like the only thing that should work without a battery. And yes it's the green to yellow wire that powers the headlight. So I'm back to conducting the continuity tests.

I think I've mentioned this a few (dozen) times now - this thing is fighting every step of the way - I seem to make 1 step forward, and 3 backwards!
markosmarkos wrote:
Congrats on getting your issue sorted! Good on ya!

Quick question. Do you have a good 6v battery in your setup? The battery is a major part of this system.

The battery is what powers the tail, brake, turn signals, horn in your setup. Brown wire from battery to red wire out of the ignition switch. It is similar to the 74 model 6v Vespas with turn signals. The coil in question is to charge the battery. That's its only job. It is low output so as not to fry the battery. It will barely run lights. This system has no regulator, just the basic rectifier which is the two diodes. They take the alternating current coming out of the 3 wire coil, which has a center tap, to halve the voltage coming off of the coil at the ends and rectify it with the two diodes to DC. The battery is big (13ah) on purpose to take on extra charge and boil it off as there is no regulator. The battery becomes 'the regulator'. If I am not mistaken, the green to yellow wire powers your headlight. It is AC. The rest of the system is DC. This system can't run the lights well without a battery.

I have seen setups where the battery is eliminated and converted to AC. The center tap is taped off and the charging coils ends are used with a regulator. This won't be enough to power the turn signals, just the brake, tail light, and horn. And your horn will need to be changed to an AC horn. Robot video below shows this.

As was pointed out, you could change the lighting coil out to power everything but a regulator would be needed to prevent blowing out bulbs.

Battery is the quickest and easiest solution here IMO.


.
@qascooter avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
 
Ossessionato
@qascooter avatar
79 P200E (Ruby), 62 Allstate (B-62)
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4263
Location: Florence, OR
UTC quote
I always try to look at the "One step forward, three steps back" scene this way:

What am I learning?
What is this meant to teach me that goes beyond the actual task I'm trying to do?

Kinda like - its the journey, not the destination crap Razz emoticon

I know, I'm not providing any help whatsoever, but this strategy works for me so I figured I'd share...

And BTW, I think you're doing great - these little beasts can be beasts at times...
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
I understand you. I've thought about this a lot and partially captured my thoughts in this other thread https://modernvespa.com/forum/post2631197#2631197

It's about testing your own character. Other than that, 90% of what I've learned it will never be useful in my life past of the point of getting this Bajaj back on the road.
qascooter wrote:
I always try to look at the "One step forward, three steps back" scene this way:

What am I learning?
What is this meant to teach me that goes beyond the actual task I'm trying to do?

Kinda like - its the journey, not the destination crap Razz emoticon

I know, I'm not providing any help whatsoever, but this strategy works for me so I figured I'd share...

And BTW, I think you're doing great - these little beasts can be beasts at times...
OP
UTC

Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
 
Hooked
1980 Bajaj
Joined: UTC
Posts: 407
Location: Chicago
UTC quote
markosmarkos wrote:
The battery is big (13ah) on purpose to take on extra charge and boil it off as there is no regulator. The battery becomes 'the regulator'.
Well, I just double checked - the battery I got from scooter mercato is only 4Ah, and I don't think it would be proper. Livid emoticon

https://www.scootermercato.com/Scooter-Parts/Batteries_1/6N4-2A
DoubleGood Design banner

Modern Vespa is the premier site for modern Vespa and Piaggio scooters. Vespa GTS300, GTS250, GTV, GT200, LX150, LXS, ET4, ET2, MP3, Fuoco, Elettrica and more.

Buy Me A Coffee
 

Shop on Amazon with Modern Vespa

Modern Vespa is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com


All Content Copyright 2005-2024 by Modern Vespa.
All Rights Reserved.


[ Time: 0.0681s ][ Queries: 8 (0.0445s) ][ live ][ 313 ][ ThingOne ]