Modern Vespa

So I have commented many times on social media about how aggressive the drivers in AZ are. I just spent three weeks in Morocco and Italy and I rented a car in each country. I have to say both countries drivers make AZ drivers look tame, especially those on Scooters and the occasional motorcycle. Tons of PTW's, most are scooters though. While I have complained that in AZ there are no driving rules, in Morocco and Italy there really are no rules. The roads, especially in Morocco, are very narrow, many not really two lanes, very twisty, tons of blind spots on the roads, and people drive very fast, down the middle of the road, they yield to no one. Tailgating is the norm. The PTW's drive in and out of traffic, often driving down the road on the wrong side of the road. In the Medina in Marrakesh they ride crazy fast in and out of pedestrians. Most either do not have rear view mirrors or if they do the mirrors are pulled in so the scooter is narrower, otherwise they would clip people who are walking. The skill of the PTW drivers is amazing. I could never drive like that. It was quite an experience. Curious what those who live in Morocco and Italy feel about driving scooters there.

Perspective makes a world of difference.

Driving from Palermo airport to our hotel in Quattro Canti was the single most terrifying experience of my life.

Then I realized we'd paid extra for the full (no-fault) damage waiver.

I really enjoyed the experience after that.

I don't live in Italy, I just have a house there and spent a month riding across the country.... In my experience, I'll take riding there over driving on highway 401 in Toronto, where I'm born and raised, any day of the week.

In Italy, you just need to do exactly what you're doing.

That's it.

In Italy, if someone is riding up your ass, you just need to do exactly what you're doing.
In Italy if someone, if someone is coming into your lane in front of you, you just need to do exactly what you're doing.
Etc.

They're good drivers, better than the average I've come across between ON/NY/PA/OH over the years, they're just more aggressive. But they're good drivers. They've planned what they're doing, and they're doing it, you've already been accounted for, all you need to do is keep doing exactly what you're doing.

Whereas in Ontario, they don't even know you exist. And if you're on two wheels they are also trying to kill you.

I'll take Italy over Toronto any day.

^^^^
This. Italian drivers are far better than US ones, IMHO.

Actually there are a couple of rules:

1. Don't worry about anything behind you.
2. Don't hit anything in front of you.

Simples.

My take on this is that one of the significant challenges is adapting to the local driving culture. In places like Germany, and to a slightly lesser extent not knowing/following the rules can get you into trouble, in places like Italy and Mexico and, on steroids, India (my limited experience), expecting other vehicles to follow rules can get you into a world of hurt.

It's not about who is doing it right, but regardless, one has to adapt, and quickly.

Most of my foreign driving experience has been in Mexico...it's not all that challenging in the countryside/smaller cities, but Mexico City's a treat. Having said that, lane slitting of sorts on mountain highways in Chiapas was a treat.

Despite being in the US for 20+ years, she still reflexively stops for flashing yellow lights...something that can get you rear-ended here; not doing it in Mexico City could get you killed.

I've been fortunate to live in Italy and travel a lot all over the world, driving in some of those locations was definitely a different experience.
But there is a vibe everywhere, once you're immersed in it, it's "normal"
Thailand was my scariest in a Tuktuk, New Zealand was most chill.

Dont come here and tell me Italy have no rules come on man, please visit istanbul and i show you whats madness

frankly speaking when i went to U.S and rent a car there it was a nightmare for me to follow all the road signs, rules and funny thing you guys stop when you see a padestrian walking whyyy man why?

you have big cars you can just pass

So I'm gonna summarize this:

Italy has no rules, Istanbul has even less than no rules, and the US has way too MANY rules, all of which we should be breaking.

I like the way you think good sir.

Having ridden a scooter in both Naples and Istanbul I can confirm riding in Istanbul is another level of crazy.

I actually liked driving in Italy after the first couple of days. It's scary initially if you are used to the strict rules elsewhere. Once you relax and stop worrying about what everyone else is doing and assume they will sort themselves out (especially all the scooters) it's kind of refreshing.
This comes naturally as you get exhausted trying to keep track of what is going on around you and you can't keep it up.

With the lack of rules and no concept of wanting your turn, nobody seems to get angry about anything.
You could be waiting in a queue at a roundabout and someone in a car will just drive up the pavement and jump ahead of you. That seems to be viewed as 'why didn't I think of that'.

They use their horns all the time but it's usually seems to be to let you know they are about to do something crazy near you, their football team just won a match or whatever.

As others have said, taking the zero excess makes it much less stressful and you don't have to check all of the existing damage on the hire car (and there might be quite a lot of it).

Because if you don't a large percentage of them (at least in the baltimore/dc area where i live) will jump on your car and claim you hit them, and regardless of any of that it's the law to stop for them....if you don't and they even accuse you it's game over and the police come and steal a bunch of your money. Maybe worse if you're unlucky.

Well, when i get the first rental car and go out from Jfk, i saw a sign with a drone on it. It says we watch you over with a drone.

Than i called my customer and asked him how to behave in the road. for example i saw a sign which is 65mph limit. but couldnt understand it cause i was driving a mustang which can easly go over 65 if i dont watch the speedometerr.

anyways i told him i will go real slow, than he told me if you go slow police will be mad and will question you. so i told him i will go fast he told me no they will ticket you.

what the hell man too much thinking of rules and so i end up giving up the car totally and used uber.

I don't know about Morocco, but I found riding in Italy, Tuscany in particular, to be easy.

Spain, Greece, France and Portugal too.

Maybe it is because we stay in smaller towns and ride between them, but Athens, Barcelona, Lisbon and Porto were not bad at all.

Bill

Exactly. Maybe not Athens.

I just got back from Portugal, Spain, Belgium, the Netherlands and Morocco...all I can say is scooter drivers in Morocco are insane, there appears to be no age limit, and we were told no license is needed to ride one. Horrid riders zipping along the 3 foot wide medina streets on a 50cc or 125cc was nuts...Vietnam has more scooters per square inch than I've ever seen, but they all know how to ride in comparison to Morocco.

Eric

i would tend to agree the scooter riding in the Medina is scary

I think we should not think in clichés on traffic in other countries.

I have been driving many km, off course in my own country, Belgium, but also in the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, France, Poland, Switserland, Austria, Italy, Spain.

To me there is little difference in how drivers behave.

Specifically on Italy I have no problem at all there. Done many thousands of km's over the past 12 years in the country all the way down to the south of Campania.

I have been driving in the dense traffic in the centre of Milano, Firenze, Roma, Napoli. Of course you are not familiar with the city but just keep calm, follow the flow and don't do unexpected things and all will go well.

There's a big difference in the perceived 'personal space' between US and European folk - drivers in the UK and EU are quite happy to pass each other even at speed with only inches to spare - not so in the US! They like wide spaces in between vehicles - many feet. When I ride my scooter down my street that has parked cars either side, but room for two cars between those, cars will *always* stop to let the scooter sail through. You'd never get that in the UK or EU!