Modern Vespa

Hello,






Could that come from the flywheel side bearing ? It is toast, but so much material from a single bearing ? Other bearings look fine.



Shavings are magnetic, so it does not come from the casing.

The picture shows maybe 30% of all shavings I found everywhere in the engine.

I don't have much experience in engine rebuilt, but I think the crankshaft looks fine, a bit of corrosion on 1 side because this engine has not been running for a long time. It rotates freely, no internal bearing noise.






I did start the engine few weeks ago after a carb rebuilt (clogged) and it ran fine, at least stationary cause the clutch cable was broken.

I inspected the pad under the crankshaft and it is ok, no scoring. I guess I'm lucky, the crankshaft did not wobble too much due to the dead flywheel side bearing.

Could all the shavings come from this bearing ?

Thanks

how does the clutch side bearing look? and the primary?

that's definitely not from the fly side... I'd be having a good long look to figure out where it came from.

To be more specific, did the shavings present themselves in your gearbox oil?

They look fine !

Yes

Focus on the bottom half of your engine then. Broken teeth in the gears or rear axle bearings.

That stuff came from the gear box. The crankcase is a separate compartment and nothing even close to that size would get past the bearing or seal. Time to open the cases. No way around it. I can't wait to see what exploded in there. It's a small pic , but this one large piece looks like it was cast and the one above it looks like a pin of some sort.

If you're lucky they are from clutch. Easiest to fix.

It looks like chunks but it is shaving folded on themself, the colour might also make you think they are pieces of gear but no, it is the colour of the (very) old oil, I just didn't wipe them.

I took the gears out and the Christmas tree (I don't know the word for that) they seem fine upon quick inspection but I will have a closer inspection later today.

I still wonder if so big shaving could come from a bearing…

I will extract the suspect one first (and the others of course)

That's a lot of carnage. If it were from bearings, I would think it would be readily apparent, unless it was behind a seal. Kickstart/quadrant/cush drive?

I am also thinking cush drive . I may be wrong, but it is the only 'soft' metal in there ( other than a washer or two ) that could get shaved like that and produce so much material.

edit: I guess you would have noticed that if you removed the primary stack....

The clutch seems fine, it's used, but no part is missing













The Christmas tree looks fine, at least the teeth. No ding dong noise when I shake it, springs should still be in one piece



The base is sealed and no cracks



Are the teeth from the kickstarter gear supposed to be longer ? Could they have been shaved ?





That part looks ok



The cross is toast !



The quadrant looks ok (no pics)

The clutch corks are all supposed to have matching teeth. The cork missing teeth could be your culprit. How is the large bearing that the rear axle goes into? Ball bearings evenly spaced and cage intact?

Oh wow... I didn't even realized all discs should have teeth

Concerning the ball bearings of the rear axle I don't know, it looked ok for me but now I'm not sure I can trust myself ! I'll have a look tomorrow. You mean the one in between the rear brake plate and the casing ?

Yep. That one. That and the one behind your clutch are the only ball bearings left to inspect. The rest are needle type bearings.

Bingo.
I'd strip it down, clean it thoroughly, and go with new seals, bearings, cork plates, and a cruciform.

As mentioned by voodoo, cr80 plates are better than original cork.

Gee... that pic looks just so familiar!



Big metal shavings in oil... ? Yep.

The same

I'm going to purchase a kit with the cork plates and the intermediate ones as mine look to had quite a hot moment ! From the pictures according to you the base plate and the basket are ok ? I'll also purchase the brass bushings and new springs.

Cr80 plates ? It looks like the cr80 kit from SIP has 4 cork disks + 4 slick ones, where mine is originally 3 cork and 2 slick, would that fit ?

I was going for this one from Polini, cork + slicks + springs
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/fr/product/disques-d-embrayage-lisses-polini-sport_23000140?q=embrayage

Or brand new everything one from Ferodo with 8 springs, should be softer clutch engagement ?
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/fr/product/embrayage-ferodo-cosa-2-standard-23-dents-pour-primaire-65-dents_93040000?q=embrayage

This ferodo clutch is better if buying a whole one.
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-ferodo-cosa-2-sport-23-teeth-primary-65-teeth_93041000

And these plates
https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/clutch-friction-plates-sip-performance-cosa-2-sport-cr80-race-clutch-cosa-2_93081800

I see the brass bushing and washer in the pic, was do they look like up close? Also, was the bush on loose enough that you could pull it off with your fingers?

Missing teeth on metal plates are normal. They're for locating the oil passages during assembly…

It is not on metal plate, it is on a cork plate !

The cork plates don't have "teeth". I think what people are referring to are the "tabs", which are toast.

This

Yikes, I hope the gears are ok.

Yeah, I d check every valley between the teeth on every gear. He stated that what he showed was only about 30% of the total swarf.

This doesn't look right either.

Yes it is totally dead…

Hopefully this carnage did not affect the gearing.
I will replace all bearings and bushings as little shavings have gone everywhere.

I may also replace the crankshaft as I don't know the age of it, I just know the scooter has 43k km, and seeing the general condition, it is original.

I don't have much experience to judge a 2 stroke piston and cylinder but minor scoring to me, I will post some pictures for some advice. I took the compression before disassembly it was 140 psi.

That is normal. Here are two shots of new clutches and you can see similarly peened rivets. The press has to clear the gear. There is nothing that interferes with or could wear those down.