Modern Vespa

Are there any other options to get a "no title" scooter legally on the road? I have heard of a service in TN that will assist in titling for a fee ($400?).

In PA, if you don't have a notarized title from the previous owner, or a notarized bill of sale, from a state that never issued a title before the manufactured date of the scooter, it's essentially impossible to do.

It would be interesting to hear your thoughts.

It was no big deal in California. Vin verification at CHP and some time at DMV.
I'm about to go through it again as I have a trailer with no vin sticker or paperwork.

I don't think it's dead at all. And I'd be willing to bet that Vermont was serving a relatively small slice of the Vespa population anyway.

Tennessee is REALLY easy if you're a resident. That's why Saints Cycle/Joe Cassola is able to do his title service. It's about $100 the first year, but it's a full, transferrable title.

You're largely paying for his time to go down to the DMV personally+taxes/insurance/overhead.

Illinois is also annoying, but not terrible. The worst part is dealing with "use tax," which is basically sales tax on used big ticket items. The dreaded RUT-86 form, which was a NCR (press hard with a a ballpoint to generate multiple, different-colored copies) form that, once upon a time you could only get by sending a letter by US Mail to an office in Springfield, then waiting for them to mail you a blank copy. It was not available anywhere you might need it, e.g. the State of Illinois Vehicle Title Office. Go figure.

Now transferring a *trailer* without a title in Illinois, on the other hand, was effectively impossible. But that's another story for another day.

It's pretty easy to register an old vehicle in NYS with just a VIN #. I registered an old k car in NH with the VIN written on a paper napkin.

It's less what's written on the napkin and more what's written in the database they look the VIN up in.

Out of curiosity, which of the US states where it is possible is the most troublesome in the situation being described?

2 cents - I think it may have a small drag on price with untitled project bikes. But, it will be minimal... I don't think it will have any effect on collectible models.

The Massachusetts motor vehicle dept. is pretty bureaucratic and basically not that friendly to vintage motorcycles. That's why I used VT frequently. All my purchases and registrations were legit, too, obviously. I used my MA home address and then my Hagarty vintage auto insurance policy provided me with a VT oriented policy. I have a couple of VT bike registrations that are hopefully grandfathered this way.

Well... hard to say. Doing a VIN verification in Texas is fairly easy, generally. But, in Harris county (largest county in Texas) it's almost impossible. They only do verifications one day a week in Harris, you have to get the verification done in your county of residence, and you have to line up like 10 hours before they open to get in the cue before cut off. I know people who waited 8 hours in the elements only to be turned away bc it was 5pm and the DPS officers were done for the day. OOOph!!! Time is money yo. (Joey at Saints can have my money to save that much time.)

South Carolina isn't terrible to obtain a new title when one does not exist at the time of the sale. It is a non-notary state, so a bill of sale from the previous owner is required, a police officer or DMV official has to witness the VIN, sign a form and you mail it off to the SCDMV with a $15 check and wait. They do the VIN search but you can be turned down for any reason. Usually, it takes about 6 weeks.
In North Carolina, you can bond the title, so it's a little easier.

Lots of states *say* they're notary-required states, but I've never been turned away because I didn't have a notarized signature yet.

*knocks on wood*

MA has been a title state for about 40 years now. Nonetheless, it is bordered by RI, NH and VT, which do not title older vehicles. Also, there may still be a handful of MA registered vehicles left over from when MA was the same.

MA will issue a title and registration if you present a bill of sale and a registration in the same name as the seller on the bill of sale. The bill of sale does not need to be notarized. It is murky, but I believe the registration has to be a CURRENT registration. Of course, most bargain vehicles do not have a current registration and the sellers are unable or unwilling to get one. That is where the VT loophole used to come in.

Now, you will need to "sell" the vehicle to a trusted friend in a non-title state who will register it there and then "sell" it back to you. You will have to pay applicable fees and taxes in both states, but that shouldn't be too bad for an old scooter. It may be best to find a friend in VT because VT has stopped doing VIN checks on non-titled vehicles. Don't know where other states are on that.

Here in Washington it's not too bad. You need a notarized Bill of Sale and then make an appointment w/ the State Patrol to have the VIN inspected and checked against their list of stolen vehicles.

When I did this I saw a small fenced off area with a few vehicles in it. These are the ones that showed up on their stolen list, they get immediately confiscated then and there no matter what kind of paperwork you have. Fortunately mine made it through, and I then was able to get the registration in my name. Then if no claims are made against that VIN for three years you are entitled to a title which you must request - for some reason they don't just send it to you. So a minor PIA, but not really a huge hassle.

If the PO had a legit title in his name but lost it, it's even easier because he's still registered w/ the state. He pays $12 and files an 'Affidavit in Lieu of Title' and if that passes he can then sell it to you nice and clean.

https://www.vintageautomotive.net/?p=407

Got to love the Peoples Republic of Pennsylvania. Spend a grand plus to have an attorney "hopefully" get a judgment or decree declaring that you are the lawful owner of the vehicle.

Im a UK resident, we just send off for registrations to the central UK driver vehicle licensing agency, some times are vehicles need to be checked in the registration process by the the DVSA driver vehicle standards agency. Are you saying in the USA you have to apply to the state you live in, as somebody who doesnt know and interested can you give a brief description of your process?

In the US, vehicle registrations are handled by the states. This means that when you move to a different state, you have to take your title, and sometimes your vehicle, to the department of motor vehicles in your new state, and pay to get a new title issued by the new state, along with new plates and registration tags. I guess this is partly because annual registration fees include a tax based on the value and age of the vehicle and states don't want to miss a chance to collect that for themselves.

As in many things, states are allowed to regulate things like this as they see fit, so the law will not be standard state to state. For example, in California, for newer cars, you have to pass smog inspection to renew your registration every 2 or 3 years. So smog shops get their cut too. I'm not opposed to enforcing emissions but I'm certain shops extort/can be bought.

Whats Vernont?
Is it like Vermouth?