Modern Vespa

SO I knew the fuel efficiency would drop after the 190 kit went in (I also added Malossi Variator). But it is noticeably worse! after about 50km I am down half a tank.

real(ish) data:

5.9 L/100 km
40 MPG

Although in fairness I think my speedo is slow by about 15% so those number may in actuality be a bit better.

Is this just the reality of 190 kit? or could there be something else?

One other thing: since putting the kit it will occasionally hiccup when i open throttle from 25%
ie I'm riding and at 25% throttle(ish) and then crack it to, say, 75% it will hesitate. it doesnt ever do it at idle when I open it up at a red light.

It has gotten better and I was going to put in the larger #38 jet at some point and see if it helped it. but was not a huge concern. again, It has not happened in a little bit mostly just with a passenger. just trying to provide more relevant information

I know nothing about the 190 upgrade, but I do know that going to the #38 jet provided a big boost in performance for my machine. It was Butt simple to install as well.

Good luck.

I've had a 190 kit on my 2007 LX for about 12 years. I also installed a Polini variator and an up-gear kit at the same time. I spent a lot of time experimenting to determine optimal variator weights to complement the new power output and gearing.

After I got it dialed in, my fuel economy was comparable to stock with considerably improved acceleration and top speed.

You can't just slap on a kit and expect optimal results... it takes some time and work, with a lot of trial-and-error experimentation. A cheap, stick-on tach helps in making objective judgements about variator weights.

I also have a #38 jet installed. It removed a slight hesitation I had coming off idle.

installing the #38 jet might help cure that mid-throttle stumble. I'd start there, if only because it'll also help the 1/4 throttle response as well.

did you change anything else carb/intake/spark plug wise when you installed the kit?

I may have changed the spark plug and I changed the air filter.

Are you guessing it's used half a tank or have you actually fuelled up?

The variator is costing more MPG than the BBK. I hate the annoying high RPM at 30 MPH.

50 km is too little to really get an accurate idea of real fuel consumption.
I'd fill to top, do at least 150 km, and then see how much goes back in.

maybe, possibly, in this situation, but that's not necessarily always the cause. if you have annoying high RPM at 30mph then your tune is out of whack or something is up with the clutch.

I think it's because I had to file the ramp plate sliders to make the variator work. Another dig at the SH line of Malossi crap. I guess Malossi doesn't need quality control for Honda parts.

I did notice a reduction in MPG after I installed the 190 kit on my Piaggio Fly. I also installed the Polini Upgear, Malossi variator and clutch, upped the idle jet from 35 to 38, and installed a GPR Vintalogy exhaust. I put about 15K miles on this setup before I sold it last fall. It was a fun scoot capable of 75 MPH.

My reduction in MPG was a direct correlation with happy throttle syndrome

If you have not upped your idle jet, that will help quite a bit with off idle throttle response.

I recall using more fuel with the 190 kit on my et4. It was more than worth it for all the extra fun I had ….

I did upjet with the jet provided in the kit.

I also fitted a bigger, gel battery for extra starting grunt, as the higher compression troubled the starter motor.

How much degradation in fuel economy you experience is going to be dependent on how you tune the variator weights, how much time you spend at near top speed, and how much you "hoon" generally. If you tune the weights for max acceleration, that's equivalent to winding a stick-shift car to the redline in every gear... not a formula for fuel economy. Pushing the scoot to near top speed regularly also burns a lot of fuel just pushing air out of the way.

Moderation in all things, Grasshopper.

The 190 kit took my LX from 30km/l to 27.5.
Worth every drop.

I guess what im gathering it may be mostly my weights. i did the lower ones of the malossi variator which was 9.5 I think

maybe ill try a mix of 14's and 9.5's which from what i understand I am allowed to do?

I recently did the 190 kit and Malossi variator with the polini upgear on my ET4. I started with 10.5's and it was too tame for me. The 9.5's are working well for me. The punch is improved and the bike feels right. I can't imagine it with 14.5's or anything above the 10.5's.

I heard the same from a racing team and tried that on my et4 190. The heavier rollers disintegrated, presumably as they were doing all the work, causing a wobble on the variator and severe wear on the splined crank shaft end.

I would suggest you buy a full set of correct weight rollers.

Finding the sweet spot may be a case of trial and error, though, depending on your weight & riding style, and is why such modifications are a can of worms. Great fun, though.

The 190 kit creates additional torque and power. My experience was that too light weights didn't take advantage of the additional torque.

Did you change the counter spring?

The one on the clutch? If so then yes

What is correct weight rollers? Or you just mean assorted and play around?

Personally I had to try several weights of roller before hitting the sweet spot, eventually fitting Dr Pulley sliders.

The sweet spot will vary depending upon rider weight and riding style/preference. As the top speed is unaffected (without changing the final drive gearing), it's just about how you want to get there.

OK then any conventional weight theory/practice goes out the window. Or at least any that is gleaned using the stock spring.

9.5 is for the 125 and 14 for the 150. As you have gone 190 then 14 is closer to the mark than 9.5.

If you live in North Vancouver you could go a bit lighter. Depends on how it revs going uphill.

I've never understood why there's such a jump only on this variator for the 125-150 difference. This variator fits AC and LC models, and I suspect it might have been the only variator offered when the 180 LC models came out, and they never got around to correcting it.
Once you change the final drive gears, you really will need to go with a lighter weight if you want the engine to have any chance of getting into the powerband and giving good performance. I agree with putting the 9.5 weights in there. You might end up with 9 grams or 10 to 10.5 before you have the right setup, but with 14 grams, your bike is going to suck gas and go nowhere fast. I suspect it's probably slower up hills than it was before you did all the work.
If your goal is to break and replace the variator, go ahead and alternate the 14 and 9.5 gram weights. Or take half of them out.

I belive it is the difference in HP and torque and where that power is produced. A diiferent manufacturer adds 0.5g per weight (12) when going from Honda 125 to 150.

So 9.5g to 14g is probably the 8-9hp to 11 for the Vespa and the 125 having a different camshaft.

If we use the reduce weight to increase speed at which the variator changes to the highest ratio and we increase the weight when uping the HP, then when installing a 190 kit we would theoretically do both.

Start at 14g for the 150, reduce by 85 to 90% then increase a bit for the 190 ending up around 14. GT200 uses 11g weights as standard but the Malossi counter spring ruins that as a starting point.

We need 2 or 3 guys with empirical 190 information but there are few who fit tachos to get the real answer.