Modern Vespa

My last service was at 1000km's
Now it's 7700 and last time I asked for service they told me that it's at 10000km. 🤷‍♂️

Today I rode 10km and the oil light turned on but after couple of seconds it turned off. Then for 5-10 km I was riding at 120km/h
Then the engine turned off and i stopped the bike. The nearest gas station was 8km away.. I restarted with difficulty and rode at 60km/h .. I started to hear more noise.. as I was in the middle of highway and trying to catch the flight I continued to ride 😬

I reached the gas station, filled the 10/40 (only thing that i found in the station) oil for about 200ml (considering that it has never been done before) then the engine started and with a bit less noise but still cranky noisy. Only 2-3km later the engine stopped running and engine sign turned on.. not possible to restart.. I left it at the random car company entrance and left the key to security, tomorrow will be picked up..

Any predictions about what happened and what needs to be done??

I know one thing that the engine sign is not good..

What is the worst case scenario?

Check engine light AND/OR Oil light?

The oil warning light indicates that there was not enough oil PRESSURE. The warning lamp does NOT indicate the oil level (but not enough oil leads to not enough oil pressure…)

If the oil pressure warning light comes on while driving, it is usually too late...

Do I understand you correctly that since the 1000 service you are 6700km on the road without oil level control?

If you haven't checked the oil level for 6700km, we can at least certify that your GTS has an oil consumption below the average... your consumption was less than 200ml per 1000km (1300ml divided by 6700km)… 😎

What was the oil level before you added 200ml?

Keep in mind that the oil level of a GTS 300 is total 1300ml, between min and max is approx 300ml, oil level is measured when cold.

Should turn on the oil pressure people while driving: Stop IMMEDIATELY! Continuing to drive is highly risky / a few drops refill will not be enough.

My guess is: too little oil pressure due to too low oil level (200ml saves nothing) = engine damage. You certainly didn't do any better by driving on.... Sorry!

I'm a bit fearful that our German friend might be right. The OIL light is a bad thing

As above..worst case scenario is serious engine damage. The engine noise seems ominous.

Sorry to say, but the whole story would seem to add up to major engine damage...

Among all the bad news (and i share that opinion, with sincere condolences for what it's worth) there's always a silver lining. Since a rebuild is all but certain, there's always the option for a malossi cylinder kit to raise displacement and output.

Ah, do I understand correctly that you had not checked the oil level in 6,700 km of riding - and did not check the oil level after an engine warning light came on? This story doesn't sound good.

Your engine is ruined, more correctly the crank is ruined for sure. Since you continued to drive after first shut down and kept abusing the engine it's safe to say that top end is wrecked also by this point. Just contact your dealer and go from there.

Is your HPE still under warranty? Piaggio will replace it. I replaced a bunch of HPE engines this summer, all covered by Piaggio if still under warranty.

Despite some grumbling and push-back I got last summer when I suggested that there is a consumption issue on some HPE engines which leads to failure, it is a real thing, Piaggio is aware and replacing engines at no cost to owners.

Do not raise hope that the OP has a warranty case here…

The warranty conditions exclude damage caused by insufficient/incorrect operating materials or delimbing due to improper operation.

"4. EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS OF THE COMMERCIAL WARRANTY
4.1 Not covered by the Commercial Warranty are:
(...)
(iii) Overheating due to inadequate lubricant levels of the vehicle engine;"

In Europe, in any case, there is not a cent if too little oil in the engine is determined to be the cause.

We're not talking about a few ml too little here, the OP ran the engine dry and continued driving despite the warning light for oil pressure.

It is not without reason that the operating instructions state that the oil level must be checked before each use.

GermanGTSDriver, I'm not going to comment on how things are done in Europe since I deal with Piaggio North America. However, OP followed dealer recommendation on oil change interval and did his 1000km service at, what I hope, is an authorized dealer. Proof of prior service and staying within recommended interval is all that is needed in North America to qualify for engine replacement.

I don't know if you work in the industry, but as a tech who replaced a lot of HPE engines I can assure you that there is a problem, that Piaggio is aware and that they aren't being sticklers about replacing engines if you can prove that service was done at an authorized dealer.

I won't comment much about what I know regarding these engine issue, since I won't bite the hand that feeds, but in some cases engine problems will occur regardless of oil changes because the failure was predetermined. The problem had to do with early production engines, and in some cases even replacement engines would fail!! I'm told this problem has been addressed and that overall failure rate has declined globally.

Anyway, no point speculating about this warranty outcome until the OP contacts his dealer.

Regardless of the fact that a statement from the dealer about the service interval does not exempt the customer from the need to check the condition of vehicle including operating fluids (as stated in the manual: check oil level before each trip), I recommend taking a look at the location of the OP.

The service interval for Vespa is either distance-dependent or time-dependent (every 12 months or 24 months additionally brake fluid change), whichever is reached earlier.

The OP joined the forum in August 2020 and writes about "his brand new GTS 300" -> almost three years later, his warranty should have expired long ago…

The 'check the oil before each ride' instructions came on the late models. Piaggio, instead of addressing the problematic HPE and the oil consumption, makes the owner responsible for their design and quality problems. We all know that checking the oil level is difficult cause of the stupid placement of the dipstick and not everyone can do it safely. Furthermore, the 'huge' service intervals just to show that the scooter is cheap on maintenance, increases the risk of the low oil level / engine seizing. From the three dealers I work with, all of them had customers with engines replaced no questions asked, even if a service wasn't done at a dealer (laws here are favoring the customers). This shows that Piaggio knows their engine is sh…t and they're trying to avoid bad publicity or a class action lawsuit…

HPEs are known oil-eaters, and levels should be checked every other tank of gas at a minimum. Sadly, you aren't the first or the last to think the owner's manual was being ridiculously cautious when it said to check the oil before each ride.

Manual Excerpt:

Engine oil level
Four-stroke engine oil is used in the engines in order to lubricate the timing bodies, the bench bearings, and the head-engine block-piston assembly. An insufficient quantity of oil can seriously damage the engine. In all four-stroke engines, a loss of efficiency in oil performance and certain consumption should be considered normal. Consumption can particularly reflect the conditions of use (i.e.: when driving at 'full acceleration' all the time, oil consumption increases). The replacement intervals pro- vided for by the maintenance program are defined depending on the total content of oil in the engine and the average consumption measured following standardized methods. In order to prevent any problems, we recommend checking oil level more frequently than indicated in the Scheduled Maintenance table or before setting off on long journeys. The vehicle is, however, equipped with an oil pressure warning light on the instrument cluster.

Engine oil level check
Every time the vehicle is used, visually inspect the level of the engine oil when the engine is cold (after completely unscrewing the oil cap/dipstick). The oil level should be somewhere between the MAX and MIN index marks on the level rod; «A»; while the oil is being checked, the vehicle must be resting on its center stand on an even, horizontal surface.

If the check is carried out after the vehicle has been used, and therefore with a hot engine, the level will be lower; in order to carry out a correct check, wait at least 10 minutes after the engine has been stopped so as to get the correct level.

Wrong!
For example: Vespa LX 2008 Owners Manual https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1792266/Vespa-Lx-150-I-E.html?page=54#manual

On our manuals they made changes for the 2023 models compared to the old ones, so I'll disagree. And after working with Piaggio for over 25 years, I have my own opinion for the company…

Even in the old X9 500 manual there was this:

In order to prevent any problems, it is advisable to check the oil level more
frequently than indicated in the Scheduled Maintenance Table or before under-
taking a long trip.

This is in the Use section of my October 2019 HPE manual. I didn't even need to check the Maintenance section. Doesn't matter if the wording changed in the Maintenance section (which I forgot to check).

I also downloaded the pdf manual and it had a few more items on the list but also of course includes oil level check. eg check center and side stands and check throttle rotation

I'd bet even a Toyota Corolla says the same.

The problem is that nobody ever does all those checks every ride. I ride daily, but I check oil and tyre pressures about once every 3 - 4 weeks, or every few hundred miles. Coolant and brake fluid checks? Only if I'm changing brake pads or removing tupperware for some reason.

If I'm under orders and just nipping up to the store for some potatoes I'm damned if I'm going to check the oil level first.

sure, but legal liability is the issue here ....

There's always that word 'reasonable' that would come into play here.

I'm afraid the OP was out of order by never checking the oil until the 6,000 mile service - the mythical 3,000 mile 'service' is an oil and fluids check that one hopefully has always preempted. It was not 'reasonable' to ignore the manual completely.

Checking the oil every ride is silly - what is expected of a courier say, who has maybe 20 rides every day?

However it would be 'reasonable' for that courier to check the oil every day, especially as his livelihood depends on it.

But it's 'reasonable' for me to check just now and again, and not every day.

yes. 100%

But with all that said - is it 'reasonable' that a brand-new engine's oil will magically vanish to the point of destroying the engine before the first major service? (Discounting the 600 mile one...)

From what others have said about Piaggio stumping up and replacing engines under warranty, the OP might be in with a chance. Turkey isn't in the EU as such, so I'm not sure what consumer protections they may have.

The rule of checking the oil level at least at every or every second refueling stop has proven itself (although at least in the beginning, when you don't know the vehicle yet, it's better to check more often than when you can estimate it better).

I think that one problem is the oil light in the cockpit. Everyone sees this light up briefly when starting/shut down. But no one knows that it is a warning light to the oil PRESSURE not oil LEVEL (see OP: lit and at the next gas station topped up with 200ml). Maybe we become so accustomed from the car that there is a warning at the oil level minimum…

The oil light in a car is the same as the scooter. It reads oil pressure, not oil level. Conversely, if your car runs out of oil, the light will come on because there is no oil pressure.

Personally I feel the dealer should be involved in this story as they should know that the HPE drinks and they should stress to the new owner the importance of occasionally* checking the oil. if the dealer did this and the user then ignored both the dealer and the manual then hard to have sympathy. if the dealer didn't tell the user ... I have more sympathy


* personal rule of thumb is 800-1000km.

I was thinking of modern cars: all my BMW, Audi from the last 15 years show a warning in the display when the oil level is at minimum or in the menu I can read the current oil level. Some modern cars no longer even have a dipstick, you can only read the oil level in the display.

What do you have for oil pressure?

If someone told me I had to add oil every 1000km or whatever, I'd tell them to take their two-stroke scooter back and get me the four-stroke I wanted. Period.

It doesn't matter if oil is checked or not when the engine is flawed from improper manufacture process. It's not the lack of oil that causes the failure but the reason for consumption that causes the failure. In fact, I have a customer who kept up on his oil level and still the motor failed with proper oil level!

Some HPE engines - though not all - are predisposed to fail sooner or latter because of a certain flaw that Piaggio admits. I heard the official explanation as to why these failures occur and what was done to rectify the matter. I'm not fully convinced but time will tell.