OP
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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UTC quote
One more smallie getting prepped for a friend and club member. He already owns a GTS 300 Super but wanted something older and definitely a smallframe. He found one with papers, freshly resprayed but was terrible up close. He decided for a full resto and some upgrades. We're going 125cc and also the front end from my blue PK. We had it blasted a while back and now we're working on the frame. New complete legshield and some patches on rotten areas...

Few pics...

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Hooked
Polaris Grey Rally 200, Blue Marine Primavera ET3, Coral Red 50 Special
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Hooked
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UTC quote
Did you use that concrete saw to chop down the panels?

The rust on the inside of the tunnel is always out of sight out of mind unless you take the frame down this far.
OP
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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UTC quote
Time for an update. Progress with the frame. Grabor legshield is a bit crap and was misaligned. Had to make some mods to bring it where it should be. The one from SIP I had bought for our "Special" was way better...

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@sdjohn avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
you welding types always impress me with the metal work. Clap emoticon
@orwell84 avatar
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
You make it look easy, but I bet it's a real bitch to get that to all line up. Bet that legshield comes out of the stamper as straight as a potato chip.
@moto64 avatar
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Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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UTC quote
sdjohn wrote:
you welding types always impress me with the metal work. Clap emoticon
I think it's the most satisfying and the most fun part. Painting is all anxiety.
@sdjohn avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
'15 GTS300, '86 PX125EFL, '66 VBB, '01 ET4
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@sdjohn avatar
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UTC quote
Moto64 wrote:
I think it's the most satisfying and the most fun part. Painting is all anxiety.
I find mechanical the most fun part. Paint is kinda cool with me now, I'm sort of into it, would love to get real equipment.

Metal work - I just can't go there yet, not welder and no skills. Will pass on projects that need this type of help in favor of those that don't.
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parallelogramerist
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
You're doing the Lord's work Safis
@macgerk77 avatar
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Molto Verboso
Wrecked '61 VNB '65 Allstate '74 Rally 200
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Molto Verboso
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UTC quote
whodatschrome wrote:
You're doing the Lord's work Safis
+1

I'm pretty much in awe of OP's project skills Wha? emoticon
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Not So Moderator
VNB VSC 09C VMA VSX - vbc vmb
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UTC quote
macgerk77 wrote:
+1

I'm pretty much in awe of OP's project skills Wha? emoticon
+2
Anyone doing welding and fabrication work. *doffs cap*
@charlieman22 avatar
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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UTC quote
Safis - is that a "rust converter" paint, or a "weld through primer" or both?
OP
@safis avatar
UTC

Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Thanks Gents!
orwell84 wrote:
You make it look easy, but I bet it's a real bitch to get that to all line up. Bet that legshield comes out of the stamper as straight as a potato chip.
It was a PITA. Potato chips are straighter.. ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon
Last time I buy anything Grabor made. They stamped it off center, about 3mm. Foot brake holes don't align with the tunnel so I have to move them and the lip where the legshield trim goes on, is wider on one side (needs trimming)…
charlieman22 wrote:
Safis - is that a "rust converter" paint, or a "weld through primer" or both?
Weld through primer but before it, I first sandblasted the insides and then coated everything with a rust stabilizer, kind of like your ospho…
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Nedminder
62 VBB1T Round Tail W/ leaner sidecar
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Nedminder
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UTC quote
Looks great.
Thing is going to look brand new when done.
Offset holes due to bad stamping: Facepalm emoticon
Why did they even bother to stamp it...
What a pain.
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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UTC quote
Love the work and especially the documentation via photos, SaFis!

When I eventually make the Smallstate pretty, it'll get a new floorboard, but not a full legshield, I don't think. Seeing how this stuff is done is hugely educational for me, not to mention impressive as hell to watch happen.
@108 avatar
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Ossessionato
PX 200
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@108 avatar
PX 200
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UTC quote
What a save…

Better than when it rolled off the factory floor…
@moto64 avatar
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Molto Verboso
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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Molto Verboso
@moto64 avatar
'64 Motovespa 150S (177) , '65 VBB, '66 Allstate SF, '66 180SS
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
It was a PITA. Potato chips are straighter.. ROFL emoticon ROFL emoticon
Last time I buy anything Grabor made. They stamped it off center, about 3mm. Foot brake holes don't align with the tunnel so I have to move them and the lip where the legshield trim goes on, is wider on one side (needs trimming)…
Quality control was on vacation ?

I like your use of screws.
OP
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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Ossessionato
@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Small update. Made a brace for the legshield, something that Piaggio should have added from the factory...

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Moto64 wrote:
Quality control was on vacation ?
Do they even care anymore?? I don't know if you've seen this...

Crap made by Grabor
@chandlerman avatar
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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Lucky
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Small update. Made a brace for the legshield, something that Piaggio should have added from the factory...
I followed your example and replaced the sad-ass excuse for a legshield brace on my VBB when I re-did it. That's now a permanent to-do list item for any scooter I repaint.
OP
@safis avatar
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Finished today with everything welding related. I also used solder on the seams of the nose to avoid as much bondo as possible during prep for paint...

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⬆️    About 4 months elapsed    ⬇️
OP
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
A bit more progress on the smallie. Shortened PK fork, drilling for the rails and a lot more things to do...

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@roland87 avatar
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Molto Verboso
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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Molto Verboso
@roland87 avatar
'13 LML Star 200, '81 50 Special, '81 P 150 X, '87 PK 50 Nuova, '84 PK 50 S
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UTC quote
I'm happy to see your new post and photos!
Great as always!!
@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
A bit more progress on the smallie. Shortened PK fork, drilling for the rails and a lot more things to do...
That's a PX drum on there?
OP
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
That's a PX drum on there?
Yes. We don't like the PK drum. They're interchangeable…
@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
@ginch avatar
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Yes. We don't like the PK drum. They're interchangeable…
Is the offset the same?
OP
@safis avatar
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Is the offset the same?
I think they're the same but since the leg gets also rotated before welding it doesn't really matter…

I'll try a PK drum on a PX when I get the time…
@108 avatar
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PX 200
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PX 200
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
Yes. We don't like the PK drum. They're interchangeable…
Doesn't it look similar? Honestly question…

Or there's another version?
@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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@ginch avatar
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
I think they're the same but since the leg gets also rotated before welding it doesn't really matter…
Rotated? I don't follow, how does that work? You don't put it back together in the same alignment? I thought that was what the mark across the cut was for.

I was thinking that because the PK drum is made for 3" wheels and the PX for 3.5", they might have a different offset built in. Just guessing though!
108 wrote:
Doesn't it look similar? Honestly question…

Or there's another version?
The PK drum is a lot "squarer" isn't it? I'm not sure this is representative of all PK's but I'm not very familiar with these.

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OP
@safis avatar
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
Rotated? I don't follow, how does that work? You don't put it back together in the same alignment? I thought that was what the mark across the cut was for.

I was thinking that because the PK drum is made for 3" wheels and the PX for 3.5", they might have a different offset built in. Just guessing though!

The PK drum is a lot "squarer" isn't it? I'm not sure this is representative of all PK's but I'm not very familiar with these.

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I mark them for reference, then I twist the bottom where it needs so the wheel ends up dead center to the track of the frame. If you just put a PK fork in a V frame the wheel is offset…

Don't think it's too much, 1mm to 3mm depending if it stays drum or goes disc…

As for the drums, yes the PK is squarish and looks weird on a V range. Repros for PKs are same as PX nowadays. Offset wise they're probably the same, I'll have to check them though…
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@ginch avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
74 Super, 75 Super, PX project, LML off-roader and '66 Blue Badge Smallframe
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@ginch avatar
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
I mark them for reference, then I twist the bottom where it needs so the wheel ends up dead center to the track of the frame. If you just put a PK fork in a V frame the wheel is offset…

Don't think it's too much, 1mm to 3mm depending if it stays drum or goes disc…
I kind of feel like that wouldn't work to change the offset? Obviously you have much more experience in this area than I do. But I can imagine that the dominant force when the scooter is in motion is that the centreline through the trailing arm is going to dictate the direction of travel, no matter what. IE, the tracking is not changed. Meaning (I think?) that the top part of the fork would be turned 1 to 3mm, and this would be made up for at the headset and pinchbolt?
As I said, I haven't tried it myself but this is how it seems to me.

The thing you did earlier changing the length of the axle was how I imagined it would work... although I'm probably getting the fork mixed up, that might have been an auto fork?
@108 avatar
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Ossessionato
PX 200
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PX 200
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
The PK drum is a lot "squarer" isn't it? I'm not sure this is representative of all PK's but I'm not very familiar with these.
Ah yeah… I see it now.
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parallelogramerist
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UTC quote
Ginch wrote:
I kind of feel like that wouldn't work to change the offset? Obviously you have much more experience in this area than I do. But I can imagine that the dominant force when the scooter is in motion is that the centreline through the trailing arm is going to dictate the direction of travel, no matter what. IE, the tracking is not changed. Meaning (I think?) that the top part of the fork would be turned 1 to 3mm, and this would be made up for at the headset and pinchbolt?
As I said, I haven't tried it myself but this is how it seems to me.

The thing you did earlier changing the length of the axle was how I imagined it would work... although I'm probably getting the fork mixed up, that might have been an auto fork?
It's a thing alright. I did this on both my rusty VB1 200 P fork and Allstate 208 PK fork in order for the front and rear wheels to line up exactly. Of course playing around with suspension geometry is never straightforward, so once the lower portion of the fork is rotated, it then makes the upper shock shaft pin not line up correctly through the shock plate. So in order for the shock shaft not to bind during suspension travel, the shock plate should also be extended/modified to suit. Then there's also the mud guard. When the fork get rotated, it also throws off the angle of the mud guard. So the mudguard mounting holes have to be modified...along with whatever it takes to get clearance around the shock absorber. So yeah, not cut and dry whatsoever.
@108 avatar
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Ossessionato
PX 200
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UTC quote
SaFiS wrote:
I mark them for reference, then I twist the bottom where it needs so the wheel ends up dead center to the track of the frame. If you just put a PK fork in a V frame the wheel is offset…

Don't think it's too much, 1mm to 3mm
Forgot to ask, is this fork shortened?
OP
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Ossessionato
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
108 wrote:
Forgot to ask, is this fork shortened?
Yes, that's why it was cut in the first place…
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Always thought the pk conversion was to address a tilt in the wheel and not everyone shortened the fork.

Good to know, as im thinking I might do this in the future.
OP
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Ossessionato
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UTC quote
Bit more progress. Rails are ready...

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OP
@safis avatar
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Ossessionato
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@safis avatar
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UTC quote
Got the engine door lock on...

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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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134 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
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UTC quote
Nice!

I can't even fit the engine door on my Smallie. The Quattrini cases and cylinder are too wide.

Naturally, it never bothered me until I tried and realized I couldn't do it.
@108 avatar
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Ossessionato
PX 200
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UTC quote
chandlerman wrote:
Nice!

I can't even fit the engine door on my Smallie. The Quattrini cases and cylinder are too wide.

Naturally, it never bothered me until I tried and realized I couldn't do it.
Which part of it that hits the door?

Is it just the case the whole flywheel side is wider? The crankcase clutch side should be the same as stock right?
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Lucky
76 Sprint V, 63 GL, 62 VBB, 05 Stella, 66 Smallstate
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134 Days Since Last Explosion
 
Lucky
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UTC quote
108 wrote:
Which part of it that hits the door?

Is it just the case the whole flywheel side is wider? The crankcase clutch side should be the same as stock right?
Correct. The crank is significantly wider than stock. like 10+-2mm, IIRC (it's somewhere in the smallstate thread if you want to dig), and all the offset is to the fly side, so the cylinder shroud rubs on the edge of the frame and the door won't go on.

If I ever paint it, I'm going to cut and widen the cowl so it'll all fit, I think.
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1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4156
Location: Veria, Greece
 
Ossessionato
@safis avatar
1979 P150X, 1983 P200E, 1987 PK125XL Elestart, 1988 T5, 1995 PX200E, 2011 Yamaha Fazer 600 S2
Joined: UTC
Posts: 4156
Location: Veria, Greece
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Yeah, Quattrini cases are bigger. There's a wider carbon door for them made by Tomas Compositi or you can make your own...

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/side-panel-door-tomas-compositi-racing-cylinder-m200_5095M200

Almost there with the smallie. Tried the flywheel cover to check for clearance with the engine door, drilled for the regulator, carriage hook and a main switch for extra safety. I only need to finish with the fork and the mudguard...

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Preserved original importer sticker from 1978...
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