UTC

Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 753
Location: Reno Nevada
 
Addicted
2020 piaggio liberty 150
Joined: UTC
Posts: 753
Location: Reno Nevada
UTC quote
Tierney wrote:
Mid-80s for the EVO. Vespa (Piaggio) just made the choice many other companies have done (HD) and cut quality. This would be understandable on a lesser machine, but Vespas are supposed known as a premium brand.
Couldn't agree more! HD capitalized on and did a very good job of monetizing the popularity of the brand with cheaper parts in the newer years (2002 was the last year for Timken bearings in the big twin for example) and with little improvements incrementally added over the years so that every few years you would be tempted to get a new one.

It seems like a possibility Vespa is following the same recipe for success to some degree. The incentive to make the most money you can from a product you make has been taken up several notches by the McKinsey Institute's, Accenture's and MBA's in general in our modern society to the detriment of some beloved icons.

(See the rant on the Sackler family and Purdue Pharma in this thread...8th post by me in response to another posters bad reaction to a comment made about no love lost on the passing of an Italian business tycoon.)

Piaggio CEO dies

I understand both points of view, and I want to avoid politics but it is increasingly hard to separate politics from economics. This forum has taught me to focus on the economics and for those that read between the lines the politics is obvious. I am doing my best to color carefully inside the lines.
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
Joined: UTC
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Location: Tega Cay, SC
UTC quote
It's all about the brand or more like the illusion of the brand - past glory days and all that. There is no doubt Vespa builds a good looking machine, but looks only go so far. I'm hoping they get better.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
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@bill_dog avatar
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
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UTC quote
Here's a little known secret about the Automotive Industry.

Dealers will continue to sell brand new vehicles with known faults in the full knowledge that the vehicle will probably fail and then be returned to the Franchise for a repair under warranty.

If it doesn't break, well that's a result.

They'd rather do that than halt sales by "Holding" stock until a fix has been found while losing sales.

There's a list as long as your arm of Manufacturers who have kept pumping out cars that within days from leaving the forecourt will fail.

The Dealer will act like it's the first time it's happened. This is total and utter bullshit.
@adri avatar
UTC

Atypical Canadian
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
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Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
 
Atypical Canadian
@adri avatar
2009 Vespa S50(LX150 motor swap), 2006 Vespa GTS250ie
Joined: UTC
Posts: 2318
Location: Toronto, Canada
UTC quote
Yup. I was talking to a salesman at a Royal Enfield dealer. We were speaking in confidence so I'll keep this generic, but basically, there's a common issue they get complaints about from customers, so they in turn voice their complaints to their RE rep, who in turn voices his complaints to the company.

"Yes, this is a known issue." is the response from RE corporate.

So the dealer thinks okay, well, guess there will either be a recall at some point, or, at least they'll fix it for next year's model.

The next year, issue still unfixed. Customer complains to dealer. Dealer complains to rep. Rep complains to HQ. RE HQ hits back with "Yes, this is a known issue."

Dealer thinks, ok, maybe they couldn't correct it for this year because it was too late, they'll get to it next year...

Long story short, Royal Enfield has been telling this dealer "Yes, this is a known issue." and not correcting the problem for 3+ years now.

This is not a situation unique to RE.
@bill_dog avatar
UTC

eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
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UTC quote
My 2 Royal Endfields were fine mechanically.

The finish had a few little issues but apart from that I couldn't fault them.

I just got bored of having the same conversation each time I filled up so off they went.

RE used to have an utterly useless Impoter in the UK which they binned then took it in house.
@motovista avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
GT 2.4
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Location: Watts, Cherokee Nation
 
Veni, Vidi, Posti
@motovista avatar
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UTC quote
JakeM wrote:
Out of curiosity, are there any reports from cannonball 2023 as to breakdown numbers etc. Did specific makes or models fair better than others?
Vespa HPEs have had more catastrophic engine failures than other modern models in the Scooter Cannonball.
@steelbytes avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 59,000km
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Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
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@steelbytes avatar
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 59,000km
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UTC quote
Motovista wrote:
Vespa HPEs have had more catastrophic engine failures than other modern models in the Scooter Cannonball.
which would correlate with many HPEs drinking more oil.

a detailed break down of the failures and bike histories for both hpe and non hpe would help a comparison
OP
@rocklanddad avatar
UTC

Hooked
VESPA GTS 300
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Posts: 346
Location: Pearl River, NY '
 
Hooked
@rocklanddad avatar
VESPA GTS 300
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Location: Pearl River, NY '
UTC quote
SteelBytes wrote:
which would correlate with many HPEs drinking more oil.

a detailed break down of the failures and bike histories for both hpe and non hpe would help a comparison
For me, it wasn't oil / the oil light just came on as my bike was stalling which is what happens when bike is about to die - all happened so fast so I didn't know what was happening etc

They think it may be the fuel pump- again! Had factory installed one replaced after my first 500 miles
@steelbytes avatar
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 59,000km
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@steelbytes avatar
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 59,000km
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UTC quote
RocklandDad wrote:
They think it may be the fuel pump- again! Had factory installed one replaced after my first 500 miles
yeah, but doubtful fuel pump twice. I still am curious about valve check as I asked earlier ...
OP
@rocklanddad avatar
UTC

Hooked
VESPA GTS 300
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Location: Pearl River, NY '
 
Hooked
@rocklanddad avatar
VESPA GTS 300
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Location: Pearl River, NY '
UTC quote
SteelBytes wrote:
yeah, but doubtful fuel pump twice. I still am curious about valve check as I asked earlier ...
I guess I will ask them that - but they said they went over the whole bike so I assume that they did that I would imagine
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Veni, Vidi, Posti
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UTC quote
A good technician can take the plug out, spin the motor by hand and tell if the valves are too tight. That's not something that gets past them.
@bill_dog avatar
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eeeee bip
BMW R1100RT The Problem Child Kymco Downtown 300 - I'm not the Uber Honda Cub - Scorched Earth Policy
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UTC quote
Best avoid using the phrase - "Well I've read on the Forums" when you talk to the staff at the shop.

Just sayin.
@steelbytes avatar
UTC

Veni, Vidi, Posti
2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 59,000km
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Location: Batmania aka Melbourne, Australia
 
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2019 GTS300 Supertech E3 59,000km
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UTC quote
Bill Dog wrote:
Best avoid using the phrase - "Well I've read on the Forums" when you talk to the staff at the shop.

Just sayin.
in general yes.

but my local vespa specialist (they only do vespas) was unable to fix mine. even when I had solved it myself and shown him the problem he admitted he wouldn't have guessed (was a worn out throttle body). he was too hung up on the engine fault codes and was wanting to replace the wiring harness
@vintagescooterdude avatar
UTC

Hooked
2006 GT200 2009 Genuine Stella
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Posts: 279
Location: Chandler, AZ
 
Hooked
@vintagescooterdude avatar
2006 GT200 2009 Genuine Stella
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Posts: 279
Location: Chandler, AZ
UTC quote
I have never owned a bike that I haven't had problems with, and that includes all 4 Japanese brands, Taiwanese brands, American brands, Indian brands, Italian brands, French brands, and Austrian brands. On most lists of vehicle brands listed by reliability, BMW always comes in dead last. I've never owned one.
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UTC

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UTC quote
To back up what you are saying here is a brief list of PTW's that I've owned recently. B = Broke R = Reliable

Benelli TNT 125 R
Benelli Leoncino 500 B
Royal Enfield 535 Continental R
Royal Enfield 500 Trials R
Kymco AK550 B
Kymco 400 Exiting 400 R
Kymco 300 Downtown B *
Kawaski Z 250 R
Honda NC 750 DCT R
Moto Guzzi V9 Bobber R
Moto Guzzi V7 Cafe Racer R
Suzuki Burgman 400 R
Kawasaki KLV 1000 R
BMW R1100 RT B *
Vespa GT 200 B
Vespa GT250 B
Vespa GT300 B
Triumph T120 R
Piaggio Beverly 350 B

* I bought the RT broken
* I really abused the OEM belt on the Downtown so it's not really reflective of the product.
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UTC

Ossessionato
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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Posts: 3581
Location: Minneapolis USA
 
Ossessionato
@bob_copeland avatar
2013 Vespa 300 Super, 2022 Kymco AK 550
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Posts: 3581
Location: Minneapolis USA
UTC quote
Dog,

That is some long list of 2 wheeled vehicles. Rick H, in my riding group, has had 8 different scoots - like a new one every year. He draws a bit of humor out of the group each year - or maybe envy.

I also expect you have several in possession at any given time. Rick H always trades his in on the new scoot.

Bob Copeland
GTS300 Super
KYMCO AK550
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