Modern Vespa

that'll be 2-stroke contrails

Been reading along, finally time to comment....

My experience (other than riding a 2-stroke in my teens), has been in rallies. Usually not overwhelming numbers, and I have to admit the faint smell of 2-stroke is an interesting detail in group rides, but it can fairly quickly get annoying. I think I'd opt out of rides with predictably higher levels. My wife is pretty sensitive to smells/chemicals and would likely opt out from the start.

Kind of a challenge for ride organizers, but it has to be dealt with.

Every year for 11 years, my wife and I hosted a vintage moped (all two stroke) ride in northwestern NJ. It was the largest gathering of vintage mopeds on the east coast. The last year we hosted, we had 81 riders participate. The line of mopeds behind me was about a 1/4 mile long during the 50+ mile ride. You can just imagine how much 2 stroke smoke we generated during these rides. No one ever complained about the smoke. It was a once a year event and we all just "sucked it up". I hold no ill will towards anyone with a two stroke moped or scooter at rallies today. It's all good.

lots of things fall into this category but are still allowed ,used, tolerated, sold and so forth.

Don't go on group rides----they are dangerous,too.

This just reminds me of the first Rides of March I attended ages and ages ago with my kitted Scarabeo. After we stopped, someone came up to me and asked if I was running Ipone oil. I was still very much a newb at that point, and confirmed while asking if they noticed someone wrong. They were behind me for much of the ride.

"No, it's just that your exhaust smells like strawberries!"

I agree with this. I simply don't do group rides because they are more dangerous than just riding alone (or with a small group of 2 or 3).

Almost every large ride I've been on, I've seen dangerous riding behavior. Twice it resulted in an accident. I just say "no" now.

My uncle died on a HD group ride because of another riders mistake. Not wearing a helmet didn't help.

I recognize exactly what you say.

Some 10 years ago we made an organized Vespa tour in Italy, Tuscany. The group was some 25 Vespa's and we were guided by 3 locals on their personal scooter. One was an MP3, one was a GTS300 but the third one was a vintage 125cc 2-stroke.

Now if that 2-stroke was in front of me the stench was terrible. I always or went faster to get ahead or go slower until there was enough distance to get rid of the smell.

Mind you, I rode a 2-stroke GS160 myself back in the early 80's.

I would suggest in a group to have the 2-strokes in the back.

But there is maybe a different option.
Many of these light garden tools still run on 2-stroke engines. But they do not smoke and they do not smell.
Apparantly they run on specific 2-stroke mixtures that lead to clean burning, fuels like this: https://andrecelis.be/andrecelis_nl/aspen-2-takt-benzine-5l-gvg-057b.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjw0vWnBhC6ARIsAJpJM6fxWP68qV9t5R36W8IDPtdui5pB7foBZy9GrUnGlN0MB8cksyIhengaArVPEALw_wcB .

Quite expensive fuel, but no fumes, no smell.

Group rides are a work of the Devil.

Waste of time.

I'll meet you there.

I rode over to Maggie Valley North Carolina, more specifically the Wheels Through Time Museum which was the lunch stop for this year's vintage motorcycle cannonball. 1933 or earlier motorcycles, two strokes and 4 stroke oil burners. My original intention was to ride over to the finish line for the day as well but after being behind some of them in no passing sections of the Blue Ridge Parkway, Smoky Mountain National Park and Foothills Parkway I decided to head home at the closest point between Maggie Valley and Maryville Tennessee to my house as I'd had enough sharing the road with a variety of two wheeled smokers.

I had several short chats with some of the riders at a gas stop while they had pulled over to the shade next to the station to "dump" and refill their oil. Something that on some of the bikes has to be done frequently.

Some of the bikes were "original", others were fully restored and some in-between.

I was wearing my Scooter Cannonball shirt and a few asked me about it. One of the riders said his son had been following the Scoiter Cannonball with an eye to riding it. There is a team from Italy with 3 riders and 2 mechanics. One of the mechanic's eyes lit up seeming it and asking "Vespa cannonball"? I pointed towards my GTS and said that was what I rode in it this year. I got the impression he too would be checking out the feasibility of riding it.

JASO FC and FD grades of synthetic two-stroke oil have solved 80% of the stink/soot complaints - even to the satisfaction of the State of California, where brand new two-stroke Buddy and Roughhouse 50s are still legally for sale.

The reduction is extremely noticeable, to the point of amazing.

Can you get everyone to use it? Probably not. But the solution IS out there.

I have no experience with this product, but if it works as you say it is probably a cheaper solution than buying a pre-mixed fuel-oil mixture at 5€/l.

All of my two strokes (RDs, GTs, Stella) have smoked significantly less on synthetic oil than on bean oil. Worth the extra $$, for me at least.

Sorry, I mis-typed the grade, they're JASO FC and FD grades of two-stroke oils. Several oils have this rating…and many, many do not.

Motul Scooter Expert 2T Oil 1 Liter (105880) https://a.co/d/6CZ0X7w

Two-strokes cause a lot of smoke, but smoking can also cause two strokes:

And you can still smoke even if you have no strokes.

There are a lot of strawberry scented two stroke oils out there, if the smell bothers you.

I always avoid riding behind a two-stroke on club rides, not because of the fumes, but they frequently have after-market exhausts and produce a very unpleasant BLAT-BLAT-BLAT.

And it's perfectly ok to wander around randomly putting your preferred smell of 2T oil into any NSM scooter you feel might need it. Owners are really appreciative of this.

Get with the program. It's spelled brap, braap, braaap, or braaaaaaaaaaaaaaap.

I know you're joking, but that's a really great way to have a problem on your hands.

besides the fact that changing the percentage of the fuel/oil mix can be catastrophic to a two stroke engine, touching somebody's pride and joy that they've worked their ass off to put on the road is great way to make sure your day doesn't end well.

don't do this. even as a joke.

it's more of a ring, ding, ding, ding da da dingggg bbaaaa-WWWOOOOOOWWW

or at least that's how mine sounds.

Not to dismiss OP, but timing was so perfect:

I turned into a highway by car yesterday, following and older boxer BMW bike, perhaps K-something.

When we accelerated to the cruising speed, man did that thing smell of oil!
I have all the super-duper HEPA filters in my car, but a very, very strong, persistent smell of oil accompanied me until the bike took an exit.

Obviously all was not well with that old Beamer, but could not help thinking this thread

I do miss the ring, ding, ding sound of two strokes. Further, I don't seem to be as impacted by the smoke and smell. I know some are more sensitive and may well be concerned for their individual health.

Total disclosure: I had surgery years ago for a deviated nasal septum (sideways crooked nose bone that blocked breathing) and I can't really smell at all.

I have enjoyed following this thread, but wonder if the scope of the situation is slightly over reacted to. All scooters are a massive minority in transportation in the USA. The number of 2 strokes is dwindling. The number of those concerned seems to be like the size of a postage stamp in a football field.

Over and out from Minnesota,

Bob Copeland

Forget strawberries. How about beer ?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/beer-based-fuel-its-one-for-the-road/Q4LGAQHZKNYIPYU3YTGBIGSZO4/

One of the reasons I stopped running the CBR was from getting so much shit for riding a 2T from people that don't even understand how it works. I was the polluter while everyone else was going to rack up over 1 million miles with support but that had no impact.

It's a group ride, if you don't like the people or bikes in the group don't go. You choose to go on a ride you didn't plan you don't get to complain.

Start your own no 2T group ride if that is what you prefer. No need to dump on someone else's planned and organized ride just because you don't like how they did it and that they wanted all welcome.

Vintage sticks, when I hear whining about a 2 stroke I throw another .5% oil in for good measure.