Modern Vespa

Correct, no pit stops. Flip side to that is, guys are riding around on motorcycles with two totally destroyed tires by the end of the game and you don't know if people are faster/slower than others because they're riding the track better, or because they are burning/conserving their tires.

In a sense there are two races in every MotoGP race: the first half, and the second half when the rubber is in dire straits, cornering is frantic, and like you said: pit stops are not an option, you just go all out, or highside trying.

I think it was Alain prost who said the ideal is to win the race at the slowest speed possible.

I think that Formula E suffers from many problems but the major one is that there are no names racing in it.

Most of the drivers you've forgotten about because their top line racing careers are over or they never really began.

It's a bit like an A list actor getting a job in a Soap to pay the bills.

Also most of the races are held on non-discipt street circuits that have no history and more importantly no gradients so it's just point and squirt at the next 90 degree corner.

Yes I get the EV's in the City promotion side of things but apart from Dan Ticktums Radio Communications it's a soulless, pointless and noiseless experience.

As you say, battery management isn't racing.

I can't get into Moto GP.

The World and British Superbikes represent far better racing with more teams and riders.

Safer career wise in his mind (right or wrong) to simply trust the team probably. A least that way he can keep saying it isn't his fault lol. (At least not entirely).

To his credit quali went really well til he got pipped at the flag. So when the car is performing he CAN drive it well.

He's got a ways to go (as does the team) before he'll see a top step though.

My assessment of "Drive to Survive" as the driving force behind F1's huge expansion into the US market isn't exactly novel or original. It may not have been your cup o' tea, but it's pretty clear that it has been effective. I think that's an obvious rider's reaction to F1 as a whole. It's also, dare I say, the lazy and biased reaction based on little more than surface appearances. F1 is about a lot more than the cages -- it's also a race of technological one-upmanship, aerodynamics, team strategy (and I don't just mean both drivers) and (as I mentioned) a race that can be upended unexpectedly by seemingly insignificant factors.

What "Drive to Survive" presented was a look behind the scenes, at the personalities and some of the factors that go into the race that aren't immediately apparent from the race itself. And if you only watched one episode, you absolutely did not see any of that.

This is not unique to MotoGP. Tire strategy (i.e. which tires you start with, and which you finish with, and maybe which ones you use in the middle too) is a huge part of F1. Tire degradation is also a huge factor, and quite often a driver will be forced to stay out on destroyed tires or lose track position. Some drivers are able to eke more life out of tires than their competitors, much to their advantage if used with the correct tire strategy. Then you get into undercuts and overcuts, and a zillion other tire-related factors.

Tires are everything in F1.

When tires are pushed beyond their limits, one of three things happens: either the driver loses pace because they lose grip in the turns, or they get overtaken in a turn by someone behind them with better grip, or they lose grip in a turn and stuff a multimillion-euro car into the wall with spectacular destruction. In F1, this dynamic starts happening after 10-15 laps, and is extremely unevenly applied across the field based on tire strategy. There aren't two halves in F1, there are 20, and they are all happening in parallel.

F1 racing on street racks is mind numbingly boring as the overtakes are so few and far between. It looks like a procession most of the time.

I prefer the bikes and the closest, most exciting racing with dozens of overtaking moves every race is Moto 3. It's not got the Kudos of Moto GP due to the size of bikes and lack of superstars but the racing is a great spectacle.

see this is why its not boring

Can we all agree that any form of motorsport is better than football.

(squinting eyes and attempting to read the room)

What kind of football?

Have i opened pandoras box here? I was thinking soccer. The reason is that i think i'd rather watch knackered ride on lawnmowers race round a field than a game of football where you know someone is going to be writhing on the floor in 'agony' for no apparant reason. I know the cars are a lot safer than the bikes now but they are all putting their lives on the line to some extent.

Yeah, that's definitely the soccer variety of football, then.

Yes, I think we agree. Racing is more interesting than soccer. And more interesting than American football, too.

(Though when those guys are writhing on the ground it's usually because they just broke their leg or something).

F1:
- good thing refueling is gone, unnecessary danger.
- night GPs. er.. no.
- classic tracks are being pushed aside.

MotoGP:
- is it me or the riding is more aggressive than years ago?
- it is sad that the typical MotoGP ride is so vastly different than street

Other: do check vintage moto racing in your area. Lots of fun, cult bikes like the CB350, Ducatis, even MB50s!

Agreed. That whole period was a disaster. For places where it's just too damn hot during the day, I don't mind. Okay, you could make the argument that F1 doesn't belong at those tracks, and maybe there's a grain of truth there. Any ones in particular you've got in mind?

there's a host of reasons why F1 should never set foot in Saudi Arabia and China ever again, the unbelievable heat being way down on that list.

jess - about 90% of what you said about F1, if you erase F1, and write "motogp", what you said is still accurate.

Same end goal, many of the same tracks, less cool vehicles... except they pit stop. Oh wow!

*shrug*

One of my buddies goes to NASCAR once a year every year, and I totally get it. It's not about the goin' fast an' turnin' layuft, I'm not sure he cares much for it. It's about NASCAR just being like... like if a music festival and a race event collided. Insane tailgate parties, festive atmosphere, drinks and drugs, sunshine, and girls girls girls.

That's something even MotoGP can't brag about the way NASCAR can. I heard they tried to get the party going at Assen but it sounds like it was an absolute dumpsterfire shit show. Trashy chaos, unlike the disorganizational chaos that was the Portugese GP. But you don't hear anything about fun and festivities from F1 events... the whole thing just seems so comparatively... timid? conformist? safe? dull?

In conclusion...


*dusts off old t-shirt*

Two wheels move the soul.

That's because they're held aboard yachts with only the most exclusive instagram influencers invited, and obviously you don't follow them.

Wish I thought of this sooner. I would have added the words stuffy and presumptuous when describing F1's vibe versus the other major motorsport championships lol

Yeah, you've definitely never watched an F1 race then. Or Drive to Survive. Seriously, it's like you just pulled that statement out of your ass. Two wheels may move the soul, but only if you're actually riding.

I rather watch motorcycle racing. In comparison, Formula 1 can feel a little like watching paint dry.

Lando admitted he gave that corner a thump which is why George did exactly the same thing.

As you say, he got sucked in.

Target fixation.

This.

The name of this very thread comes to mind lol.

But like whatever you want to like. I'm not here to endorse anything DORNA is backing, just here to wonder and learn.

Yeah, no. You're here to be a smug motorcycle guy, which is why most of us ride scooters.

Smug like telling someone you know more about them than they do about themselves?

Been riding my scooters a lot more than my motorcycles this year man. Please don't be angry at me for liking all things two wheels over any things four wheels. It's a sickness and I love it.

Hell, Why not have 6 Litre Stock Block non Turbo non Hybrid engines mated to Hewland Sequential gearboxes with Carbon Fibre Chassis using Aluminium suspension parts and weighing around 1000lbs ?

A shorter, narrower car with oversized tyres with only one compound - Soft,the kind that last about 20 laps.

Minimal Electronics. Maybe a rev counter for good measure. Possible different fuel maps for overtaking.

Unlimited Aero but fixed post Qualifying.

If you really want to cut costs remove all of the High Tech

I have been to Assen and Spa for the World GP of 125, 250 and 500's back when 2 strokes ruled.

Assen was wall to wall campers and lots of partying going on, Spa was a tad more tame but still thousands of campers and lots of partying as well.

Hot Take: Every current F1 driver from North America should be fired and replaced by someone more deserving of the seat they are currently occupying.

(Hint: There are three driver from North America).

I spose that depends on if you're from the US/Canada or from south of Mexico.

Is this some kind of roundabout Helmut Marko reference?

He's from Austria, that's nowhere close to North and/or Central America.

It's referencing the fact that people from the US and Canada tend to assume Mexico is part of Central America, while those who live south of Mexico tend to assume it's part of North America.

Perez, Sargent, and Stroll yes?

While I'm sure some people don't quite know what continent Mexico is part of (Helmut Marko, for example), I would dispute the idea that most people in the US and Canada are similarly mistaken.

Or maybe I just went to public school before the education system was deliberately destroyed by bad actors with questionable agendas. Yes. Definitely. All three of them are squandering their seat.

You've completely lost me with the Helmut Marko stuff. /shrug

Helmut Marko recently made the comment that Checo didn't have the same focus as his European counterparts, owing to him being from South America. Which was simultaneously both geographically ignorant and utterly racist, but I don't think any of us expected better from him.

continentals saying something even remotely perceived as racist is a tale as old as time. people were surprised by it?

Enough that the FIA gave him a warning over his comments.

hahahaha. i'm sure he's very distraught by it.


this is the same FIA that makes big tv spots about global warming, "responsibility" and human rights, while simultaneously jet-setting around the world numerous times a year and racing in Saudi Arabia and China, yes? lulz.

I'm not saying it was remotely effective, though he did vow to stop talking about Checo and only comment about sporting matters. I'm just saying that it was officially recognized that he had crossed a line -- it wasn't just the press working themselves into a tizzy.

well thank goodness the FIA took a stand for social justice