Modern Vespa

Pretty sure it was never going to power the new dustbin anyway. It's probably mostly a curiosity piece at this point.

1. I'm pondering a 150 based build - so I can keep fewer spares and components.
2. The pic of the motor SoCal posted is exactly what I have.

I think there is a fan, a cover and the "snail shell" component that sits behind the fan, that are missing?

Not sure.
Will find out.

Edit


Pic of the motor from listing.
No fan or shroud.
Suspect shroud back is the tough part to get hold of.

good reasons to go water cooled

ahhh, par for the course. missing all the pure unobtainium pieces, and a few pain in the ass ones for good measure!

looks like a solid project! should be fun!

Pinasco cases, pinasco 4 speed transmission kit, and a 150 small block top end of your choice...at least that's what i would do on my other VB1 wideframe (if i didn't already have a low, low mile 2005 PX150 engine sitting on my shelf already).

Greasy - as suspected…
Spose I could always machine my own - if I had any idea what it even looked like.
🙂

Whodat - why pinasco cases rather than a 150 motor base ?

If that was in striking distance, I would have...

I think I have one if you need to borrow some bits. the catacombs at kajiit house of wares are deep...

but I'll draw you a picture

Yeah, worked on one of these. Fab work experience will definitely help with the rebuild.

Couldn't sort out a kickstart leak which seems to be normal, but not.

Yeah if I remember correctly, the fan is a 4 bolt spinning blade (got cut installing that…). And the cowl is a 2 part contraption, with the outer part constantly rotating lol…

There must be new parts for this, seems popular with the German outfit. Pinasco kit (I don't know if any others tbh) seems tasty.

Greasy - thanks.
Perhaps if u ever find urself visiting "the shop"… if I had a look at em - maybe I could fab up what's needed.

108 - Uve got photos of everything! Pinasco kit looks cool.

However…
Whodats vid of the adapter and a 150 base seems so tempting.
One motor type for my entire herd.

Bar Italia sells a nice adapter bracket for $89

Lol, yeah bad habit, phone is filled with screen caps of random engine builds.

Just collecting photos as I do homework on projects I've worked on…

Tried to convince the owner the pinasco would be a good idea… lol. But to be honest. Wideframes are a different beast, but fun because it's very old school.

Loving the growing herd


Here's the one I was working on, wouldn't start properly, had leaks in the exhaust manifold. Got it up and running, but still needs a lot of TLC

Fan in question… shook my head each time I had to take it off/put it on…

Wait: is that an early Allstate in Asia?!
Socals bracket would do the job.
Gotta ponder the whole shebang before I pull the trigger on one direction or the other.

Yah… that's an Allstate here, think it's a 52, but don't hold me on that.

One of 3 or 4 wide frames as far as I know.

Lucky as I get to kinda feel/play with it.

When i began the P200 swap into my VB1 wideframe, i was over at my friend's shop. He was building a couple different wideframes engines for customers. One of them was a concours GS 150...with Pinasco cases and all the fixins. I think it also had a VMC 177 or 187 kit? He showed me all the parts and fancy bits. He has also installed a largeframe engine into a Wideframe in the past as well. My goal was to build something a bit more unique, so i wanted to use a P200 engine. I have this second VB1 wideframe in my shop that i have future plans for (most likely a Six Days tribute). No doubt in my mind if i had extra $$$$ around i would would use the Pinasco bits to bring the engine up to modern specs for torque and HP.

There was LOTS of problem solving for me to get a 200 big block to fit in a wideframe. I don't see how all these different engine conversion brackets make plunking in a largeframe engine into a wideframe plug n' play. I still see that cutting and welding would have to be done. The Pinasco cases remove any uncertainty from having less than a perfect fitment. If time is money, you would be ahead of the game by not having to fabricate shtuff. Yes, a small block largeframe engine will fit easier than a big block 200, but it's still going to take a fair amount of work.

What a beautiful Allstate! Congrats on the solid score. its so solid looking, and mostly complete; from what I can see here. Would be a great candidate and awesome to see it with the OG motor rebuilt; and hoped-up of course!! There are plenty of options out there these days to satisfy the need for speed.

I would take a bet that GickSpeed has the parts you need. John has a nice stash of bits, and has helped me source a some parts for my VB1.

Looking forward to seeing what you do with this beauty

I'm skeptical about any conversion bracket out there on the market. No telling that it will line the rear tire up with the front tire. The SIP conversion bracket that i bought didn't let the front and rear tires line up so i had to completely cut apart the bracket and reweld it up correctly. Then there's the upper rear shock conversion bracket...

Terry has it all worked out. vee bee one- got gas gauge, almost got seat!

This guy for inspiration…

Can't remember if it was scooter center/BGM which had a riding photo of a wideframe with a pinasco kit on stock crankcases… sounded great.

Shroud is not reproduced, but not hard to find either. I have plenty of them.

I do extensive work on widebodies, you are welcome to check out my pages and ask any questions- always happy to help.

Thanks guys.
Mr Gick. - can you post pics of the pieces you have that I would need to complete this motor?

Looks like the Pinasco kit would need the same components in any event?

Pretty sure a quattrini 181 like mine, would fit straight on that old crate. Reverse reed inlet like that pinasco, except more bhp.

No.

Someone remind me... is this smoothy on 8's?
If so, for the love of crunchy cheetos and bean dip, please keep it 8's. Seeing an 8" side car getting 60+mph would be the stuff of legend. IJS.

Hmmm… initial google-fu isn't very fruitful… cylinder shroud, flywheel, cover one and cover 2 seem to be a bitch to find…


Square shroud

Ninja star style flywheel…

Decisions decisions.

There's a LOT to be said for the "one motor type" approach. Will allow you to swap parts between scoots, keep your stash of spares manageable, and avoid headaches of having to chase down oddball & unobtainium parts.

That said, the idea of turning the oldie into an ass kicker is compelling. Guess the question is whether it can be tuned to pull a sidecar to your satisfaction. I have no idea how much hp and torque can be squeezed out of the old engines. Maybe we should find out.

However, one early decision that needs be made is whether to keep it on 8's. You know where I stand on that.

I'd think a hybrid solution could be possible. On my VB1 I did everything so there was an absolute minimum of alterations so that things could be unbolted and the bike restored to its original configuration some day. So you could do the modern motor conversion for now but slowly start building the old motor in a modern way. If you planned it all right, it shouldn't even be too hard to swap motors when you got the urge.

Meanwhile, lets hear more about your articulated aluminum sidecar schemes. Would you probably fab the body or really try to track down an old airplane aux fuel tank?

Oh. This must one of those 3 stud motors then.
Pinasco might be the 'rock or a hard place'. Bugger.
Edit. Found this. Looks interesting. Made to measure, tunable, not cheese. https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/racing-cylinder-cc-corsa-160-cc_84125000?usrc=Vna%20cylinder

This one is easy, CM2. Just ask yourself, "What is the correct wheel size and why is it 8"s?"

someone was making the wide body race rims, brakes, front suspension. larger shoes and drum, still 8" tire.

My vote is a wide frame motor even if it's not the original at least original type.

Love all the ideas/opinions.
Lots to like here!
Y'all will recognize the various combos from your suggestions.

The knowns:
- 8" wheels. Tubeless.
- is there a disk brake option for me? I may have to fabricate.
- custom fork - mix and match.
- single seat - offset back from stock position. I wanna do my own cover/ cut and sew. Brown leather, white grips,

Pondering:
- stock block, homemade adapter 3 to 4 stud, and crank/ rod, piston ported Quatrini facing backward.
- 150 block with usual CM treatment - and by that I mean L shaped rotary, not 13,000RPM riding in the wrong direction, exploding.
🙂

I get the draw of the pinasco cases - but if I'm keeping it non150 then id try and build the original block.

Scoot screams to be treated with respect.
Floor board leg shield are so rattled cracked and miss shaped, im not sure if id reuse or replace.

Patric - chuckled at your water cooled - at first… It's kinda ideal for low profile and if I sidecarred this thing - I could put a radiator in the sidecar! What cylinder would be potential for such a Frankenstein ?!

GL - I get it. On first look it screams restore including original type muffler and perhaps a better cylinder and love on it for its wonderful originality of everything including sound. It would be a great about towner. But roads are really wide open here. Need to be able to cruise at 60 legit and at length.

Socal - clutch discs, seals, bearings, so many fewer things to keep around and interchangeable. Real appeal to the 150 chunk.

Gick- thanks for the pics. Got it. Depending on what I do - source rather than make - nobrainer. Agreed. Will Keep u posted.

OCT - that is a bad ass looking scoot. Like how they polished the "headset" rather than paint. Gracious that's a pretty set up all round.

Jack/Gick: see above in adapter concept. That cylinder would be killer. Don't know if possible in reality- something to think about tho.

Terry: some form of hybrid (as you can see) is being pondered.
As for the sidecar... I've got a concept for a construction that would use Aluminum ribs (CNC'd or just wire frame - haven't determined) that would use either rivets or weld and polish for the panels.
Want to try my hand at using an English wheel.
Legit coach work.

The idea came from seeing a pic of a chopper - believe it or not.
It was Sandra Bullock/Jesse James.
Choppers don't make any sense to me - I don't understand how or why you would ride them - and I like to ride - but the construction of the sidecar really caught my attention. Air stream like.

Think this with a handlebar scoot could be pretty spectacular.

All I'm going to say is Don't knock it 'til you've tried it!

Also, a couple more pictures of it, because I was curious.

If I could find a cheap wideframe here, I would go this way…

https://youtu.be/nhq3t3FlPtU?si=NwgMH4JdR3MqfKZM

You know there is.

https://www.saigonscootercentre.com/ProductDetail.asp?idBasket=&category=60&product=1738&



But the Pinasco Highbrake drum gets a lot of positive comments amongst my wideframe friends. And almost stock.
https://www.scooter-center.com/en/front-brake-hub-8-pinasco-highbrake-vespa-wideframe-v1-15-v30-33-vu-vm-vn-vl-vb-acma-hoffmann-largeframe-vba-vbb-vna-vnb-pn26280200

banshee, duh.