Modern Vespa

Just about ready to put this engine in the bike. Last potential gotcha is whether there will be any interference with the clutch cover. VMC clutch doesn't look as bulky as some of the other COSA style clutches.

Something I hadn't considered was the throttle linkage. I have a choke cable…Looks like the carb will need some kind of elbow and a longer inner and outer cable.

Anywhere in the US I could find this?

Thank you!

treatland.tv is where I go for that sort of thing. They do Moped parts, and there's overlap on that sort of thing.

What chandler said, find any supplier that sells dellorto carbs and theyll have the accessories. I put elbows on all my phbh carbs as well. I havent had the desire to figure out hooking up the original choke knob to the phbh carb, so i just get the mechanical flip ones. Im sure its easy to figure out though...

I'm not able to fit a socket onto the cush drive nut to torque it. There isn't enough clearance between the nut and the case. There is more clearance in my LML and P cases.

Ground down a 17mm socket to make it fit. I think maybe it's time for some better quality thin-walled 6 point sockets.

Anyone else have this issue with the Malossi cases?

Thanks.

Nope, but I was on 177 cases and already using a 6-point socket

Had not had this issue except with the Malossi case so far. No problem with LML or my P case. It's almost as if the flat spot machined bear the cush nut is not in the right place or not enough.

I'm going to guess they are trying to get as much meat as possible around that axle because that's a classic failure point for highly tuned motors.

That would make sense. That's why I ground down the socket. Always modify the cheapest part.

This engine is ready to go in the bike. Last job was installing longer studs on the rear hub to a tubeless rims. Already did the front hub.

Last thing is which play it safe bits to put in the carb. It's a Dellorto phbh 30. I have a good selection of needles and jets.

Thanks.

start here?

Thank you, sir!

Bring this thing to the MopedGP race next weekend. It'll be close to you (right outside of Syracuse). Free camping and you can run the track if you want or just hangout. Would be cool to see ya there.

You're welcome!

Lemme know what you think. He's generally quite good, but I don't know PHBH's to assess what he says in these videos.

I use those videos as help as well, along with this website. Both offer great info.

https://www.lambretta.co.uk/downloads/carbsetup.html

I used those 3 jetting videos to do my BGM and had the best outcome so far with it. Very useful indeed.

Thanks!

I found the info helpful. Also found a video of someone taking one apart…which I did. Seems like a fairly easy carb to work with.

I have a good selection of pilots, mains and needles, but only the atomizer that came with the carb. It's an AS
266. Seems I couldn't find other atomizers labeled this way when shopping for brass bits. I'm looking for AS262-268. I usually get my jets from KMT in the UK.

Last night, I got the engine bolted in to the Stella in about 15 minutes with no fuss by myself. Remembering the very first time was a real fight with lots of comedy.

"cable bends" is what to search for. You'll have to triple check the thread diameters so that they will fit your carb. i ordered up my 160 degree malossi bend from scooters originali.

I use bulk motion pro throttle cable to build my own custom throttle cables.

https://scootersoriginali.com/products/lambretta-vespa-180-throttle-cable-kit-phbh-phbl-malossi?_pos=1&_sid=433d690f9&_ss=r

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cable-bend-malossi-for-dell-orto-sha-phva-phbg-phbh-phbl-phf-phm-160_M263991

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cable-bend-malossi-for-dell-orto-sha-phva-phbg-phbh-phbl-phf-phm-90_M263997C

https://www.sip-scootershop.com/en/product/cable-bend-dell-orto-for-phbg-phbh-sha-40_MB53039B

If you wanna avoid shipping from
Sip…racing planet has a ton of stuff too.

https://www.racingplanetusa.com/tuning-carburettor-dellorto-phbh-phbh-main-jets-idle-jets-atomiser-as266-needles-p-221638-1.html

https://www.racingplanetusa.com/xanario_search.php?language=en&sessID=c4670a29848234e13a6ba91cf48f1e2d&query=Phbh

Scooter Center carry BGM-labelled sets for the PHBH which are good value.
I ended up with an AV atomiser (which Dan recommends in the videos) after mucking about with AS... the transition from one circuit to the next seem far smoother. Do you use screw-fixed ends or something else, and how does that work?


The other option for bends is a bicycle cable guide - a 'noodle' apparently - they are much more flexible than an outer cable. And a metal cable bend.

I noticed that Dan recommends the AV. FMP prefers the AS. Casa Lambretta carries a lot of Dellorto stuff. I think I will also need a 300 needle valve. The carb came with a 200, which is apparently too small.

I buy their bulk cable housings, end ferrules, and inner cables. Once assembled it's just like any old aftermarket vespa brake line, but it's to whatever length you need it. You just have to make sure that you buy the correct diameters.

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog-product/collection/motion%20pro/1269B0FDA0CADF898F8B553ABD918D02D0BA149B?titan_sku=362O-MOTION-PRO-01-0105&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADro4Hsvw0HXTfUWiv5mb7zNqxtkh&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlMfABhCWARIsADGXdy_8UIElSU6XB0f_hNHOh3MUafPvOBI7JoOcbNCpCfE_K8ZKityEpeYaAtreEALw_wcB

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog-product/collection/motion%20pro/734953006A4F4F2784486DA89A6BF07618FEA94E?titan_sku=362L-MOTION-PRO-01-0102&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADro4Hsvw0HXTfUWiv5mb7zNqxtkh&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlMfABhCWARIsADGXdy9F9amEU9pubPp-hfKCHgXZGNpRtR6a-_aIfetzrY4SnCSA9ZGtFcgaAiFTEALw_wcB

https://www.partzilla.com/catalog-product/collection/motion%20pro/69D398D1174C1D91DB1DD56CCA7A23BD72F58AFE?titan_sku=361N-MOTION-PRO-01-0004&gad_source=1&gbraid=0AAAAADro4Hsvw0HXTfUWiv5mb7zNqxtkh&gclid=Cj0KCQjwlMfABhCWARIsADGXdy_WATF8Pw6ngTriweWw9ycgyv3oDDGHM695gnFwSrhHdtzZcp03H6oaAsiGEALw_wcB

Unless you're using a pump? In which case the 200 is fine.

I don't agree with him on the pump - or the lack of filter "because we have clean air in England". Not cheap! But some nice stuff there. I assume the barrels are a solder fit?

No solder. I use a tiny drop of superglue on the plastic jacket, then quickly push on a metal barrel. Done and done.

Not sure if I understand you correctly - the only thing holding the end ferrules(?) on the cable is super glue?

I think he means the cap on the end of the cable outer, not the anchor on the end of the cable itself?

I meant float needle earlier…for use without a pump.

Cables and linkages…the start of many tuning issues. The throttle has to open and fully return to closed every single time. Wasted many hours on other projects turning screws and swapping jets while ignoring a worn, ill fitting or otherwise wonky linkage. Point is, it's worth the time and money to put together a smooth and reliable connection to the throttle.

And I appreciate the suggestions.

Waiting for brass bits. Has been over a week and they still haven't shipped.

Ordered some random elbows and cable assemblies that looked like likely candidates, but none of them fit the thread on the top of the carb. None of the parts I have been looking at specify thread size or dimensions that would help me choose. I will probably end up doing some creative drilling, tapping and JB welding to put something together.

yeah, it varies but it's usually an M5 or M6 fine thread, depending on the carb.

Inevitably, whatever fitting I need, it's not the ones I have.

Out of desperation, I have used a top hat to keep the cable aligned before and gotten away with doing that while I chased after the correct fittings.

I think I know what you mean. I have an elbow that fits into the top hat. Should hold together when the cable is under tension. I'm think I can put together something solid with the bits I have. I can always refine it later.

No progress, though brass bits have shipped. It seems that some of the atomizers can be difficult to find.

Found a bendy tube in the PO parts stash and Scooter West carries the Dellorto throttle cable elbow.

I went through all the links posted above and I think getting the bulk pro motion cable stuff is a good idea. For now I can cut the stock outer cable to length and use a longer inner cable.

Would it be ok to use a barrel nut as a throttle stop? I don't know of any other way to get the inner cable sized right.

Thanks!

Usually slow progress is the product of overthinking, but lately it's under-doing.

Brass carb bits should arrive on Saturday. Last couple of things arrive from Scooter Mercato tomorrow.

Usually, I'm on fire to get a new engine started, but I just haven't been feeling it. Didn't feel like making my own selector box gasket or setting up the carb with bits that probably would not be used beyond starting.

Definitely been overthinking the whole cable thing. A selector box inner and outer cable should work just fine. Cut down the outer and reglue the end. Cut inner to length and use a barrel nut or pinch bolt as a stop.

You don't want to use a throttle cable outer? It's a fair bit thinner and more flexible than gear cable outer. I usually use bicycle gear cables because I can pick them up any time and cut them to length.

Also you can get a threaded nipple specifically for throttle cables.

Yes, I will be using a throttle cable outer after all. The one that is in there now fits with no modification. The inner is too short, but a selector box cable is easily long enough. I will be using a barrel nut like the one you posted.

Thanks!

Got the last of the bits…hopefully. A few odds and ends left to do on the engine, but it's in the bike.

Putting together a first try carb setup based on lots of reading and above recommended YouTube videos.
So I'm thinking:

300 float needle
Pilot=55
X2 needle second clip
Main=130
Atomizer AS 266
Slide=40

I'm not running a pump.
Engine is a Malossi 210 sport
60mm mazz bell crank
Malossi reed case
Sip R3
Set up for touring

Get that thing running

Finally got back to this engine.

Not tried to start it yet, but turned it over with the kickstart.

The kickstart lever feels stiff and seems to get harder to push at about the halfway point. It feels like I'm fighting compression, but this is no high compression monster. Of course, it goes better with the plug out and spins freely with the clutch pulled. Flywheel and carb are off. Engine spun freely on the bench, piston moved freely and checked rings are correctly installed.

Wondering if:

This is normal…200 behaves the same way, but not as stiff.

If the clutch is clearing the cover. It's a VMC clutch with a cover from one of my LML cases. Seems I read somewhere that the VMC clutch doesn't require more space than stock.

Guess I could pull the cover and look for signs of rubbing.

I'm 99% sure it just has more compression than you're used to. Especially since it spins freely with the plug out.

Throw a compression gauge on there and find out how much compression it has if you're worried. Or just throw the cap on the plug and start it.

I was thinking that. I'm not worried that the compression is too high. Ample squish and unambitious timings. But yeah, more compression than I'm used to for sure. That big reed hole sucks a lot of air. Also, most of the parts are new and tight, unlike my other builds.

Prolly should just get on with it and light it up…

Whats the starting jetting? Was that discussed already?

So far:

X2 second clip
As266
Needle valve 300
Main 135
Pilot 55